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June 15th, 2019 at 3:08:49 PM permalink
This is actually a question for the mods, as this stuff is confidential information that happened to be leaked to google. happens all the time.

should i do it? will yall get in trouble?
Zcore13
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June 15th, 2019 at 3:39:12 PM permalink
Quote: heatmap

This is actually a question for the mods, as this stuff is confidential information that happened to be leaked to google. happens all the time.

should i do it? will yall get in trouble?



How could you get in trouble for something findable via Google? Google isn't even responsible for stuff findable on Google.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
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June 15th, 2019 at 3:46:06 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

How could you get in trouble for something findable via Google? Google isn't even responsible for stuff findable on Google.


ZCore13



youd be surprised

but here it is... type into google this exact query :

site:igt.com/-/media/

everything mostly coded names for slot machines they tested i guess or something like that
MichaelBluejay
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June 16th, 2019 at 12:30:51 PM permalink
There's no longer anything at that link. I hope you downloaded lots of PAR sheets before they fixed the open door, and I hope you'll share them.
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June 16th, 2019 at 12:55:33 PM permalink
Quote: MichaelBluejay

There's no longer anything at that link. I hope you downloaded lots of PAR sheets before they fixed the open door, and I hope you'll share them.



that was fast!

and this is an edit... im not sure i want to mess with someone who can contact google that fast and have the results removed.

these documents are for sure confidential but the thing was that they didnt really contain identifying information as to which slots they went to. the best parts were the notes they had about the specific features and how they worked on which in itself to anyone probably wouldnt matter because its like reading pseudo code which reads like "if this then that" kind of thing.

and im sorry but checking if the files are still accessible is not working either. everything has been blocked this was a serious hole that i dont want to mess with any more.
darkoz
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heatmap
June 16th, 2019 at 1:15:02 PM permalink
Quote: heatmap

that was fast!

and this is an edit... im not sure i want to mess with someone who can contact google that fast and have the results removed.

these documents are for sure confidential but the thing was that they didnt really contain identifying information as to which slots they went to. the best parts were the notes they had about the specific features and how they worked on which in itself to anyone probably wouldnt matter because its like reading pseudo code which reads like "if this then that" kind of thing.

and im sorry but checking if the files are still accessible is not working either. everything has been blocked this was a serious hole that i dont want to mess with any more.



They probably already are preparing heat and are creating a map to your location.

Your screen name is about to be prophetic

Probably should run to Mexico:)
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
MichaelBluejay
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Boz
June 16th, 2019 at 4:38:34 PM permalink
Quote: heatmap

im not sure i want to mess with someone who can contact google that fast and have the results removed.

I doubt they contacted Google. IGT probably just fixed the problem on its end (directory not protected) and Google's bot picked it up when it next crawled the site.

I'll note that I've been pretty brazen about republishing copyrighted information and other things that people worry could get someone in legal trouble, but I've never had any. I know a fair bit about copyright law and lots of things just simply aren't actionable. I don't want to belittle your apprehension, but I quite honestly think you have nothing to worry about. If you'd hacked into their site that would be one thing, but simply downloading something that *they made available to the world* is not a crime.
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AxelWolf
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June 16th, 2019 at 5:22:12 PM permalink
I took a look. Most, if not all of them didn't have a name attached to the game or anything I could see that would allow you to match them up. Obviously it would be nice to get an over all look at what percentages they offer.

I'm not sure if I was reading one of the par sheets correctly. It lead me to believe that there was a confidence of 95% that within 1k spins you wouldn't go above 96%. I was thinking to myself, WOW, that's not very many spins to know theres a 95% chance you will be a 4% loser.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
heatmap
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June 16th, 2019 at 5:24:27 PM permalink
Quote: MichaelBluejay

Google's bot picked it up when it next crawled the site.



good point
Boz
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June 16th, 2019 at 5:54:02 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

I took a look. Most, if not all of them didn't have a name attached to the game or anything I could see that would allow you to match them up. Obviously it would be nice to get an over all look at what percentages they offer.

I'm not sure if I was reading one of the par sheets correctly. It lead me to believe that there was a confidence of 95% that within 1k spins you wouldn't go above 96%. I was thinking to myself, WOW, that's not very many spins to know theres a 95% chance you will be a 4% loser.



Wouldnít that mean the game in question is jackpot or large hit heavy, which certainly seems feasible in todayís slot world. Most games are very low payback on the base game and heavy on the rare larger hit. I know 1k spins isnít a large sampling by any means, but the number doesnít seem out of line.
Wizard
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June 16th, 2019 at 8:17:24 PM permalink
Par sheets these days are not very useful. I don't want to say too much, buy they withhold some details that are essential to quantifying the return. Often some feature will happen "randomly," but they don't say the probability. I suspect that the slot makers must have real par sheets they keep internally and tease casinos with the incomplete ones.
ďExtraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.Ē -- Carl Sagan
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June 16th, 2019 at 8:25:58 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Par sheets these days are not very useful. I don't want to say too much, buy they withhold some details that are essential to quantifying the return. Often some feature will happen "randomly," but they don't say the probability. I suspect that the slot makers must have real par sheets they keep internally and tease casinos with the incomplete ones.



the sub-folder or directory of the website i found them on was titled "media" and for some of the documents you needed to log-in and i would say what you are saying is completely possible that these were sub-par.... on purpose if they are actually incomplete, which each one of them is about 5 pages long on average so im not sure
darkoz
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June 16th, 2019 at 8:29:56 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Par sheets these days are not very useful. I don't want to say too much, buy they withhold some details that are essential to quantifying the return. Often some feature will happen "randomly," but they don't say the probability. I suspect that the slot makers must have real par sheets they keep internally and tease casinos with the incomplete ones.



All this is just par for the course
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
tringlomane
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June 16th, 2019 at 8:38:53 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

I took a look. Most, if not all of them didn't have a name attached to the game or anything I could see that would allow you to match them up. Obviously it would be nice to get an over all look at what percentages they offer.

I'm not sure if I was reading one of the par sheets correctly. It lead me to believe that there was a confidence of 95% that within 1k spins you wouldn't go above 96%. I was thinking to myself, WOW, that's not very many spins to know theres a 95% chance you will be a 4% loser.



I think i saw that on one that had nearly a 20% hold. Yikes.
Zcore13
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June 16th, 2019 at 10:19:33 PM permalink
There are multiple par sheets for each game. They give you hold options. That one could have been 20%, while the others might be 14.5, 11.6 and 9.9 or something like that.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
AxelWolf
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June 16th, 2019 at 11:19:15 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

There are multiple par sheets for each game. They give you hold options. That one could have been 20%, while the others might be 14.5, 11.6 and 9.9 or something like that.


ZCore13

IIRC it was a 15.8% hold, most of the ones I looked at seemed be in the teens.

IGT and casinos are raping their players without any lube. I guess when you look to create legalized crack and succeed you can do whatever you want.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Zcore13
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June 17th, 2019 at 12:13:51 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

IIRC it was a 15.8% hold, most of the ones I looked at seemed be in the teens.

IGT and casinos are raping their players without any lube. I guess when you look to create legalized crack and succeed you can do whatever you want.



I never used anything near the top unless it was a movie/tv/celebrity themed game. Those you have to pay more for. But, still never the worst odds offered.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
DRich
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tringlomane
June 17th, 2019 at 6:20:30 AM permalink
As one that works in the industry, it is becoming very common for the casinos to choose the 85%-87% paytables.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
MaxPen
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beachbumbabstringlomane
June 17th, 2019 at 7:02:02 AM permalink
Quote: DRich

As one that works in the industry, it is becoming very common for the casinos to choose the 85%-87% paytables.


It's amazing they still have regular customers. I wonder for how long that will last. With the speed of today's games people get blown out in minutes instead of a couple hours. At some point there is no entertainment value left, I'd imagine.
Boz
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June 17th, 2019 at 7:26:45 AM permalink
Quote: MaxPen

It's amazing they still have regular customers. I wonder for how long that will last. With the speed of today's games people get blown out in minutes instead of a couple hours. At some point there is no entertainment value left, I'd imagine.



I would assume many of the regular customers left are addicted degenerates. Itís the only way to explain how packed the casinos in states like PA are. They are not there as part of a vacation, itís a daily or weekly need that has to be fed, and payback isnít a concern to them.
ChesterDog
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April 9th, 2021 at 9:02:40 PM permalink
Are par sheets for IGT slot machines available online? (aside for customers or employees of IGT)
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April 9th, 2021 at 9:21:49 PM permalink
Quote: ChesterDog

Are par sheets for IGT slot machines available online? (aside for customers or employees of IGT)



They were if you knew how to find them then I made this thread and they plugged up the hole

Woops
loldongs
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April 15th, 2021 at 4:56:00 PM permalink
Quote: ChesterDog

Are par sheets for IGT slot machines available online? (aside for customers or employees of IGT)



you may have some success asking the fine people over at the newlifegames forum, which is focused on slot techs and refurbishing gaming machines for private home use.

btw, you'll have much better luck asking for PARs for a specific game title, instead of a general "gimme whatever you got" request.
Sandybestdog
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April 17th, 2021 at 8:48:25 AM permalink
The secret to making a successful slot that is played a lot and makes money is to have one that pays very poorly. Program it so that itís so bad. Make it so it says ďbig winĒ when it pays almost nothing. When you get 3 or 4 rows of wilds make it so that only pays 4x the bet. Then make it so 2 bonus symbols always come up but the third never hits. Then when it does make it so the bonus round always blanks. The customer will play it in disbelief at how bad it is and will keep playing thinking it canít possibly be this bad and something has to hit sometime. But it never does. I donít know, seems rtp% is useless. There are just plain machines that pay ok and there are some that are just crap and you always lose on.
Mission146
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April 21st, 2021 at 11:21:06 AM permalink
Quote: Sandybestdog

The secret to making a successful slot that is played a lot and makes money is to have one that pays very poorly. Program it so that itís so bad. Make it so it says ďbig winĒ when it pays almost nothing. When you get 3 or 4 rows of wilds make it so that only pays 4x the bet. Then make it so 2 bonus symbols always come up but the third never hits. Then when it does make it so the bonus round always blanks. The customer will play it in disbelief at how bad it is and will keep playing thinking it canít possibly be this bad and something has to hit sometime. But it never does. I donít know, seems rtp% is useless. There are just plain machines that pay ok and there are some that are just crap and you always lose on.



RTP can definitely be extremely misleading in the forms of rare, but top heavy, hits---as well as multi-line machines for which a substantial portion of the return is 5x the bet, or less, and often overall losing results.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219

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