Wino84
Wino84
Joined: Jul 14, 2021
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September 4th, 2021 at 4:55:21 PM permalink
Dear members,

I am pretty new to No Limit Holdem. I was hoping someone could clarify or confirm if I am reading and interpreting the Button pre-flop charts correctly or not. First of all, I thought that while being on the Button, one is supposed to play very wide and more wide than any of the other positions at the table is that right? Next, when I compare the BTN chart for an un-raised pot I see a very narrow range of hands that are played and look limited to the top left corner arrow hands through most pocket pairs versus when playing a pot that has been raised this is when the button calls a very wide range of hands down to A3o and covering hands such as J4s, etc. Am I interpreting this correctly? Play very few hands when it's unraised but play wide when it's raised? That part doesn't make sense to me. And then there are specific ranges when the Button is playing against the Big Blind and another against the Small Blind is that right? Sorry for the busy question. And thank you for your patience.

Sincerely,
Wino84
heatmap
heatmap
Joined: Feb 12, 2018
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September 5th, 2021 at 7:42:59 AM permalink
Quote: Wino84

Dear members,

I am pretty new to No Limit Holdem. I was hoping someone could clarify or confirm if I am reading and interpreting the Button pre-flop charts correctly or not. First of all, I thought that while being on the Button, one is supposed to play very wide and more wide than any of the other positions at the table is that right? Next, when I compare the BTN chart for an un-raised pot I see a very narrow range of hands that are played and look limited to the top left corner arrow hands through most pocket pairs versus when playing a pot that has been raised this is when the button calls a very wide range of hands down to A3o and covering hands such as J4s, etc. Am I interpreting this correctly? Play very few hands when it's unraised but play wide when it's raised? That part doesn't make sense to me. And then there are specific ranges when the Button is playing against the Big Blind and another against the Small Blind is that right? Sorry for the busy question. And thank you for your patience.

Sincerely,
Wino84

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    Where are your charts from. Usually those charts are based on a simulation someone has run, and there are many charts that are different from everyone elses charts in general. I would also assume it wouldnt be legal for you to post these charts without most likely being sued by the person who created them.

    Are you using a solver that you ran the sims yourself or are they pre solved by someone else and you have a pdf or something?
    Wino84
    Wino84
    Joined: Jul 14, 2021
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    September 5th, 2021 at 9:05:15 AM permalink
    Hi Heatmap,

    I got the pre-solved charts from a poker website that solved for the specific game 'Cash 6-Max 100BB 5% Rake 2.5/4BB Cap.' It should be the format that I play on PokerStars at the moment.
    gordonm888
    Administrator
    gordonm888
    Joined: Feb 18, 2015
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    September 5th, 2021 at 10:52:49 AM permalink
    Well, I use charts from the book "Modern Poker Theory" by Acevedo.

    My charts and I agree with your instincts for No-Limit Hold'em: On the Button in NL-Holdem, you should have a wide opening range when no one has opened in front of you. You should have a (much) narrower range for a call If some has raised in front of you.

    This is consistent with Game Theory Optimal (for which Acevedo's book is the outstanding published work) and is also consistent with standard ABC poker as documented by Dan Harrington in his series of poker books.

    It sounds as if your website has used a GTO solver on very specific game conditions,
    - I can't imagine that the 5% rake and 100BB stack size would make such a difference in Button play.
    - But 2.5/4BB Cap sounds like this is for a limit game? That might narrow the opening range on the Button compared to NL because the implied cost of continuing on future streets is lower. But why would a wider Button range be optimal for calling an earlier raiser?
    So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
    Wino84
    Wino84
    Joined: Jul 14, 2021
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    September 5th, 2021 at 11:23:31 AM permalink
    Dear gordonm888,

    Thank you for joining the thread and offering your knowledge and experience. Yeah, I should eventually purchase "Modern Poker Theory" as a reference as it seems so reliable and trustworthy. The game that the charts are supposed to represent are for No Limit Holdem and not Limit Holdem.

    So I was hoping to get clarification for the chart that I have that is labeled 'BTN defense RFI' which shows a very narrow range of hands played, does RFI(Raised First In) mean that someone has raised in front of me and that is why I am playing so few hands?

    And so I must be interpreting the second Button chart that I have wrong where it's labelled 'BTN vs RFI 43% (4-bet).' This chart raises 2.5 Big Blinds for a very wide range of hands spanning down to the left side down to A3o, T6s, J4s, K2s, etc. Am I raising when I am entering the pot for all of these hands when the pot IS NOT raised in front of me?

    Thank you in advance for your input. Much appreciated.

    Sincerely,
    Wino84
    gordonm888
    Administrator
    gordonm888
    Joined: Feb 18, 2015
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    September 5th, 2021 at 3:38:09 PM permalink
    Quote: Wino84

    Dear gordonm888,

    Thank you for joining the thread and offering your knowledge and experience. Yeah, I should eventually purchase "Modern Poker Theory" as a reference as it seems so reliable and trustworthy. The game that the charts are supposed to represent are for No Limit Holdem and not Limit Holdem.

    So I was hoping to get clarification for the chart that I have that is labeled 'BTN defense RFI' which shows a very narrow range of hands played, does RFI(Raised First In) mean that someone has raised in front of me and that is why I am playing so few hands?



    Yes that's what it means. Especially from early position, the opponent's preflop raise usually signifies that he has a strong hand. Without a good hand yourself, you should usually fold.

    Quote: Wino84

    And so I must be interpreting the second Button chart that I have wrong where it's labelled 'BTN vs RFI 43% (4-bet).' This chart raises 2.5 Big Blinds for a very wide range of hands spanning down to the left side down to A3o, T6s, J4s, K2s, etc. Am I raising when I am entering the pot for all of these hands when the pot IS NOT raised in front of me?

    Thank you in advance for your input. Much appreciated.

    Sincerely,
    Wino84

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    From what you've told me, the 'BTN vs RFI 43% (4-bet).' the chart is advising you to to make both strong and "light" reraises, presumably because it is assuming that first raiser tends to raise preflop with a frequency of 43% - which means that he often raises with weak hands. This motivates you, on the button, to widen your range and play aggressively.

    Remember, GTO is NOT real-life because it assumes that your opponent has perfection knowledge of the charts you are using to make decisions and that you perfectly know that your opponent is using the same charts. That's never ever the case. Yeah, if you observe that your opponent raises preflop nearly 50% of the time, then you know that he often bets with hands that are fairly weak - and thus making a 4-bet will have a good chance of inducing him to fold. And if he calls your 4-bet with a strong hand, you may still have a good chance of outdrawing him.

    So I think this is very situation dependent, requiring you to have observed that he is raising preflop on about 43% of his hands. But if opponent tends to be tight and raises preflop 10-20% of the time, then you should only be calling with excellent hands, and folding everything else.
    So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
    Wino84
    Wino84
    Joined: Jul 14, 2021
    • Threads: 4
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    Thanks for this post from:
    gordonm888
    September 5th, 2021 at 4:45:20 PM permalink
    Thank you gordonm888 for the very thorough explanation. That sheds a lot of light and unties a lot of knots I had about the whole topic. Thank you very much for being so willing to share your understanding with others so freely. I am very grateful for all of it.

    Sincerely,
    Wino84

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