AZDuffman
AZDuffman
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November 29th, 2010 at 1:03:06 PM permalink
Here is another one I saw recently and just don't get. At a table game you buy-in at the table and they drop the cash into the box. At a poker room they make you buy in at the cage-understandable since it controls what you sit down with better. But if you re-buy at the table the dealer takes the cash, folds it, and it stays in the rack for some amount of time. Then when the dealer calls the floor for a fill they give them a lamier with a dollar value on it until they bring the chips then they take the lamier back.

What is with all of this? Do they "balance" each table each night? Is the lamier a placeholder while they complete a fill-slip? Why not just have a drop-box like the rest of the casino? I know poker-rooms are seperate entities from the reast of the casino, but the cheques lookked the same to me and I could have walked out with them and played craps with them if I wanted.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
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November 29th, 2010 at 1:19:00 PM permalink
If the dealer did the chip exchange, they'd have to stop the game a lot more frequently - every time a player buys chips *and* every time the dealer's tray got low, which would happen a lot given the quantity of chips in the average buy-in. The way it's done now eliminates both of those delays.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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November 29th, 2010 at 1:31:41 PM permalink
I've only played poker in Vegas, AC, CT, PA Sands, and on one day cruise out of Myrtle Beach SC. But here goes:

The way you describe it is how I've seen it in Vegas. They will also hold white chip tips and only put reds in the tip bucket. Why is it so, lax? I don't know. Probably a hold-over from the days where the law was the barrel of a gun, but table games have tighter security. I don't recall how they handle the rake.

Vegas is also the only place I've seen a table open with a dealer having a few racks of chips to allow a fast buy-in as the players arrived, before the game started. Two minutes later, ten players had chips, and the floorperson took the cash and leftovers back to the cage, and the cards were being dealt. Nice.

In AC, they usually insist you buy in at the cage, but re-buys are at the table, with cash going into the drop. The rake goes right back into the rack. No holding white chips for the tips or bad beat. Fills are done the standard, sometimes slow, table game method. Because of this, when I buy in at the cage, I, I'll get a couple stacks of whites along with my reds. The dealers seem to appreciate it, since getting a fill takes forever. All money goes into the drop.

In CT, it's similar to AC, except Foxwoods has something unique for the bad-beat. They have coupons that go into the drop slot. I.E. The chip is removed from the pot, put in it's special spot on the table next to the rake chips, then the coupon is slipped under the chip. When the hand is over, the rake and bad beat go back into the rack, and that coupon is dropped into the slot. The nice thing about it is it helps prevent the rack from getting low, and getting a "fill" of coupons is easy. Once, when the table was down to two coupons and I was out of the hand, I went to the floorperson and told her. She just reached into a drawer, and handed ME a stack of coupons. Makes sense, since they are worthless...

In PA Sands (and possibly all PA Poker rooms), you cannot buy-in or re-buy at the table. If you want, a chip runner will get chips for you at the cage. The rake is dropped into a rake slot. No holding white tips or bad beat chips to drop reds. Fills are done with the standard table game method.

On the Myrtle Beach boat, I do not remember what they did with the rake. I do know that buy-ins went into a drop slot. And the one time I saw a fill, it was a floorman, grabbing a bunch of chips from one table and bringing it to my table. They went into the rack without being counted.
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AZDuffman
AZDuffman
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November 29th, 2010 at 1:32:47 PM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

If the dealer did the chip exchange, they'd have to stop the game a lot more frequently - every time a player buys chips *and* every time the dealer's tray got low, which would happen a lot given the quantity of chips in the average buy-in. The way it's done now eliminates both of those delays.



That still doesn't answer it. Why is there no drop-box? Why the lamiers instead of just dropping the cash and asking for a fill? Why the direct exchange when no other game does that?
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
TheNightfly
TheNightfly
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November 29th, 2010 at 2:10:02 PM permalink
Every dealer tray must have a $500 float. This is used to supply chips to players if they re-buy at the table and to make change for the pot and the rake. The dealer drops the rake into the drop box but that money comes out of the pot and his tray keeps the same float. The box is ONLY for the rake which is why chip runners will take your cash and bring you chips from the cage or take cash from the dealer to replenish his tray if necessary. A poker table makes money only from the rake which is why the drop box is only for the rake. There may be a second drop box for a bad beat (or other) jackpot pool and a third for dealer tips if the tips are shared. The $500 float is for incidentals during the game and must be replenished constantly if the dealer takes cash from a player and gives that player chips.

As you mentioned, the chips are identical to those used on the gaming floor so yes, a player could (and often does) take those chips off the table and use them on a table game. Usually the player will rack up his chips and walk to the cage to cash out. Either way, the dealer doesn't care that those chips have left the table as they do not in any way affect the float or the rake in the drop box.
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DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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November 29th, 2010 at 2:20:28 PM permalink
Quote: TheNightfly

... and a third box for dealer tips if the tips are shared.

That's another thing.

If they are not shared, in Vegas, the dealer put the tips in his shirt pocket!

Other places where they aren't shared, the dealer brings his own tip drop box from table to table.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
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November 29th, 2010 at 2:44:51 PM permalink
Quote: TheNightfly

Every dealer tray must have a $500 float. This is used to supply chips to players if they re-buy at the table and to make change for the pot and the rake. The dealer drops the rake into the drop box but that money comes out of the pot and his tray keeps the same float. The box is ONLY for the rake which is why chip runners will take your cash and bring you chips from the cage or take cash from the dealer to replenish his tray if necessary. A poker table makes money only from the rake which is why the drop box is only for the rake. There may be a second drop box for a bad beat (or other) jackpot pool and a third for dealer tips if the tips are shared. The $500 float is for incidentals during the game and must be replenished constantly if the dealer takes cash from a player and gives that player chips.

As you mentioned, the chips are identical to those used on the gaming floor so yes, a player could (and often does) take those chips off the table and use them on a table game. Usually the player will rack up his chips and walk to the cage to cash out. Either way, the dealer doesn't care that those chips have left the table as they do no in any way affect the float or the rake in the drop box.



Thanks-that explains it perfectly!
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
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November 29th, 2010 at 2:46:49 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

That's another thing.

If they are not shared, in Vegas, the dealer put the tips in his shirt pocket!

Other places where they aren't shared, the dealer brings his own tip drop box from table to table.



Never heard of the shirt pocket thing. The poker dealer I sort-of-know told me the delaers keep their own tokes but the casino keeps the key to the box so th tokes can be counted for the IRS. She had a key for her own somehow so if she was dishonest she could have had her own mini-skim.

I have never heard of poker room tokes being pooled outside of tournament play.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
Croupier
Croupier
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November 29th, 2010 at 2:57:19 PM permalink
In our Casino, having just one rake table, (or two when busy), all transactions are completed by the card room supervisor as and when required. No cash is allowed on the table in play, and yet the dealer does not have a float. The rake goes down to a drop box when changed up to reds, until then it stays on the table. All tips stay on the table and are removed at dealer change over to be dropped with the rest of the tips.
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Zcore13
Zcore13
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November 29th, 2010 at 3:20:11 PM permalink
The reason the buy in can be dropped at a Blackjack table, but not at the Poker table is because in Poker players are playing against other players. It's all player money moving around to each other. And when they are done, they cash back out for the same cash (minus the rake for the day) they all bought in for. In blackjack you don't get paid cash when you leave, so the cash can be dropped. When you leave the table you will leave with chips and take them to the cashier to exchange for cash.
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.

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