Poll

50 votes (89.28%)
3 votes (5.35%)
3 votes (5.35%)

56 members have voted

buzzpaff
buzzpaff
Joined: Mar 8, 2011
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July 6th, 2012 at 8:31:54 PM permalink
" We all would "

Sure you would. He probably folded every time he was raised after that. LOL
Zcore13
Zcore13
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July 6th, 2012 at 8:37:16 PM permalink
Buzz, in case you didn't notice, this is a forum to discuss things and for people to give opinions. When you commented on a different thread "Hopefully those tacky picture of Frank and the Rat Pack will disappear.", is it a fact that the picture is tacky, or is that your opinion?

Get off your high horse and agree or disagree with the points being made, but to say nobody can judge on a discussion fourm just makes you sound dumb.

Zcore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
guido111
guido111
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July 6th, 2012 at 8:41:31 PM permalink
Quote: buzzpaff

He probably folded every time he was raised after that. LOL

Not really.
On Day 2 Mikhail Smirnov knocked out 2 pros, Daniel Negreanu and Tom Dwan with quad 9s in the same hand while all 3 were all-in!
(wsop updates)
I missed that hand!

I hope WSOP had cameras on that hand.
I do not think they did.
mustangsally
mustangsally
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July 6th, 2012 at 9:02:45 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I want to say that I would have called also. I think the other guy had two spades, one of them the ace, for a nut flush.

That is what I put the other player on too.

The quad folder said the all in guy "looked very excited on the turn" with the 8s.
and he had been "Morgan called quickly" on flop and "Morgan called instantly" on turn

Those that have a monster hand, play it out like their favorite pet just died and they really do not want to play any more and take their time in calling.
At least I do :)

Those that have nothing or just a draw, bet fast, IMO.

I say he had the Ace of spades and hit his nut flush and with with the Ks on the river wanted Smirnov to think he had something even bigger by going all in.

They better show that hand on TV.
All hands should have been filmed because of the $1 million buy-in
I Heart Vi Hart
buzzpaff
buzzpaff
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July 6th, 2012 at 9:07:59 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

Buzz, in case you didn't notice, this is a forum to discuss things and for people to give opinions. When you commented on a different thread "Hopefully those tacky picture of Frank and the Rat Pack will disappear.", is it a fact that the picture is tacky, or is that your opinion?

Get off your high horse and agree or disagree with the points being made, but to say nobody can judge on a discussion forum just makes you sound dumb.

Zcore13



My opinion is the pictures are tacky. I have disagreed with most of the points being made by people on this thread. There is such a thing as EXPERT opinion and I believe the experts on this particular matter are Stephen and Switch.

I am just amazed at how many post are absolutely positive that the player made a mistake, can tell his opponent was bluffing by his body action 15 minutes later, etc.


And then there is this fact:

On Day 2 Mikhail Smirnov knocked out 2 pros, Daniel Negreanu and Tom Dwan with quad 9s in the same hand while all 3 were all-in!. I will state my viewpoint and place no extra value on it.

If the man thought he was beat, he had to fold. He did survive to knock out Daniel and Tom. Maybe, just maybe, he did the right thing by folding !!!
7craps
7craps
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July 6th, 2012 at 10:09:54 PM permalink
Yeah, I hope when they show "The Big One for One Drop" on TV they get the true story from these guys.

Mikhail Smirnov seems to know how to play the game from other articles and felt he was beat. So he folded.

The dealer should have used those 2 cards to lift the deck off the table, faced the deck quickly to him and looked to see what the cards were, then start to shuffle the deck a few times for the shuffle machine.

I would have

South Park is on and the pool water is 94 degrees
Later
winsome johnny (not Win some johnny)
Zcore13
Zcore13
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July 6th, 2012 at 11:11:45 PM permalink
I agree he MAY have done the right thing, I just don't think it's likely. Here's what I think happened...

Smirnov gets dealt 8h 8d in seat 2, he makes a small raise pre-flop Morgan in seat 3 and Dwan both call. If I'm Morgan the small raise pre-flop tells me Smirnov has a middle pair, AK, AQ or possibly strong connectors (suited or not). He has nothing too strong though so I call if I'm Morgan just to see the flop since I'm already in for the big blind. If Morgan has a strong pocket pair he re-raises. Morgan may have a weak pair two flush cards or connectors.

The flop comes 7s Js 8c. Smirnov bets $50,000. Morgan quickly calls the bet and Dwan folds. Morgan calling and not raising tells me he's open ended on a straight, has 4 to a flush or hit top pair. Any low pair just to see the flop gets folded. The $50,000 bet into someone who has 3.7 million in chips is a terrible bet for flopping three 8's. You're asking to get drawn out on with very little to risk with a straight and flush possible to come.

The turn comes 8s. Smirnov bets $200,000 with his quad 8's. Morgan calls quickly again. Morgan calling quickly tells me he did not hit the straight flush. He would have either raised slightly or if he's slow playing he hems and haws a little for show to try and extract more money from Smirnov on the river. I would also rule out the 7's full or 8's now along with the straight flush for Morgan. I'm thinking he hit a jack on the flop for top pair and had the Ace of Spades as well for the nut flush draw, but with a pair on the board and betting coming from Smirnov he thinks it's possible Smirnov has a two pair or three 8's.

The River comes Ks. Smirnov bets 700,000 with his four 8's. This is now just under 1,000,000 from Smirnov in bets, but he's played scared all the way through and he's given up the opportunity to put all the pressure of a call on Morgan with a very large or all in bet and given Morgan the chance to do the same to him. You never want to be in that position. It is a horrible feeling and you almost feel powerless. Morgan takes just a few seconds and calls "All In" for about 3.4 million in chips. I believe he has the nut flush and 100% believes he has Smirnov beat due to the light betting throughout. Smirnov finishes what he started and again plays week and folds after thinking for about 2 minutes. Morgan outplayed Smirnov all the way through. And to put the icing on the cake of weakness, Smirnov shows his quad 8's for some horrible reason. Another sign of terrible judgement

Afterwards Morgan refuses to divulge his hand and states "And the reason I am not going to reveal it is totally out of respect for my opponent" If he is being honest here, it's because he doesn't want to embarrass and bring on the %*#& storm on Smirnov that would inevitably follow if the world new for sure what he had pulled off. If he is that honest and he had the Straight Flush, he admits it.

From everything I've read there were no hole cameras at the table, which will make this hand go down in history aa the most amazing hand ever. Even if Morgan comes out sometime in the future and says he had the straight flush, there will be people who will say he's just saying that to be nice. Hell, there are people that still think Elvis is alive and hiding somewhere.
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
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July 6th, 2012 at 11:46:13 PM permalink
I would absolutely called. If the other guy had a SF then I'd say "congratulations and good for you." And then I would ask the tournament director if there was a "bad beat jackpot."

And since there isn't a bad beat jackpot I would go down in the books for having the bad beats of bad beats instead of going down in the books for being the guy who folded quads.

Now, which would you rather be? The guy with the claim to the bad beat, or the guy who folded quads?
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
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July 7th, 2012 at 12:00:14 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

Did someone not mention that Morgan refused to disclose the hand out of, "Respect for his opponent." If I'm going to read between the lines on that, to me, it reads, "He's a good player, I didn't want to make him look like an idiot."

I could be wrong, though.



I like your thinking here. I agree with you. If he showed less than a SF it would humiliate the opponent.
ShiftyRicky
ShiftyRicky
Joined: Feb 25, 2012
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July 7th, 2012 at 3:14:05 AM permalink
All this talk about i would have, i wouldn't have....please keep in mind that this guy is a BILLIONAIRE and didn't get there by being an idiot.
Sure all the facts that are out now....what about the hours leading up to this situation?
Buzz is right...if you feel that you are beat...you fold.
On the other hand....only one hand beats you???
Break it down like this...The Russian makes Million dollar deals before most of us are out of bed...and he walks away from Million dollar deals all day long.
To say that this guy knows how to handle the pressure of the money, is an understatement.
Everyone here has made good points....but unless you have sat at a WSOP table and been in that type of situation, none of us can say anything.
I have sat at many WSOP tables...never been in that situation, but I have folded MONSTERS to what I thought was the only hand that could beat me.

Tournament facts:
48 players...28 pros...20 business men (not your typical bussines man...these guys are HUGE in thier world)
$18.3 mil...1st place
4 of the final 9 were BILLIONAIRE business men

These business men played so well because they know how to evaluate risk management better than most. Also msot of the pros had to get backers for this thing, the business men....payed for themselves. Anyone ever played with the added pressure of trying to cash for X amount of people? Phil Helmuth said even if he had won he would have only seen 15% of the $18.3 mil...after paying his backers.
I applaud the Russian for his fold....shows that sometimes...(get ready for it)..."you got to know when to hold-em and know when to fold-em"....couldn't help myself.
"Does the sign outside still say Casino?...okay then"

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