Poll

26 votes (92.85%)
No votes (0%)
No votes (0%)
1 vote (3.57%)
1 vote (3.57%)
No votes (0%)

28 members have voted

DorothyGale
DorothyGale
Joined: Nov 23, 2009
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October 31st, 2011 at 10:48:41 AM permalink
I am starting a new thread, with a title that seems better, and in a forum that seems better (online gambling rather than craps), and might as well make it a poll ... because, after all, polls are fun ...

Split from previous thread "Impossible 843 of 3200 wins"

My opinion is that the software created by BLR Tech is rogue ... I've never seen anything like it ... everywhere you turn there is some little thing (or big thing) that works against the bettor, each individually is highly unlikely, but in combination the evidence is overwhelming ...

The original poster collected data over a long period of time, but unfortunately all of that data is "hearsay" and is not usable without something to back it up, but the wonder of it all is that he videoed himself playing hundreds of hands and posted those to you-tube, with results that are just as unbelievable as all the unusable data he has...

Just amazing ...

--Ms. D.
"Who would have thought a good little girl like you could destroy my beautiful wickedness!"
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
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October 31st, 2011 at 12:59:04 PM permalink
I guess we are supposed to review that thread to find out the answers.
I ain't no programmer. I'll see what the comments are. I recall when I first read that thread it seemed unsettled as to suspicious results or reasonable results and I don't see why there should be doubt.

If there is some little thing or some big thing that works against the bettor but never any little thing or big thing that works against the casino, then the question is answered right then and there. You can't have simply a bad programmer if all the mistakes are one sided.

Just as I thought, the thread that started out complaining of a lack of raw data and featured an original poster who seemed to not want to respond directly to comments about his data file format eventually grew into a thread wherein the math types did seem to work with the processed file.

I don't know if this "casino" is letting the bettor play on one wheel or what. At one point the Wizard suggested we not inquire as to HOW the player might be cheated but just see if a particular type of bet has a normal response.

I've not followed the math but it seems that this is a question which should be answered definitively even if the data is presented as bet on X but then it later turned out to be Seven Out.
boymimbo
boymimbo
Joined: Nov 12, 2009
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October 31st, 2011 at 1:18:34 PM permalink
Correct. There appears to be obvious bias when betting the don't that provides for more 7s at come out and less sevens after comeout AND when betting the pass line that provides for less 7s at comeout and more sevens after comeout.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
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October 31st, 2011 at 8:49:10 PM permalink
Please read my post own results before you vote.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
boymimbo
boymimbo
Joined: Nov 12, 2009
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November 1st, 2011 at 6:12:42 AM permalink
The five casinos that I know of that run the allegedly ROGUE software are:

5Dimes Casino and Sportsbook, Heritage Sports, Legend Sports, WorldWide Wagering, and Loose Lines Casino and Sportsbook.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
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November 1st, 2011 at 6:20:27 AM permalink
How much will this software cost? How much does it make?
boymimbo
boymimbo
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November 1st, 2011 at 7:00:13 AM permalink
Of the 5 casinos listed, it appears that LEGEND and WORLDWIDE WAGERING are still using this software. I cannot login to Heritage to confirm. Loose Lines and 5 Dimes may be using different software now.

So, before we stop using these five sites, let's confirm that the are indeed still using BLR software before incriminating them.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
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November 1st, 2011 at 7:16:24 AM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
Scotty71
Scotty71
Joined: Mar 5, 2011
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November 2nd, 2011 at 12:21:11 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

This is why I will never wager online no matter what site or who endorses it, sorry wiz. I will stick to bricks and morter casinos and live equipment.



I agree, unless you are a shut in why not save yourself for the real thing? Logistically it seems like a pain too, they have to skirt a lot of grey areas just to to get your money in and a bunch to get your money back to you.

With proper oversight it could be regulated in the US (pray its not the SEC regulating) and done correctly. It might force bookies to get a real job but they aren't paying taxes anyway so f'em!
when man determined to destroy himself he picked the was of shall and finding only why smashed it into because." E.E. Cummings
charliepatrick
charliepatrick
Joined: Jun 17, 2011
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November 2nd, 2011 at 5:47:57 PM permalink
I find it amazing that the software testers didn't find these problems or there are regulations that ensure some verification has occurred. I was in a UK casino earlier this evening and noticed the software for the fruit machines had been tested by an independent [and presumably licensed] organisation based at a university. It is surely in the interest of casinos to be able to show their software has been independently verified, and in the UK it is the law.


I used to be a programmer and once had to write a random number generator - for those who are used to writing normal applications that have expected results from given inputs (cf black box testing) you can understand how difficult it is to prove it works. For instance if you order a book online, and get the right book delivered, simple test. If a customer uses an ATM to withdraw cash, they are various scenarios, but essentially you charge if money is given out and don't otherwise.

However if you have to pick a random card, it's difficult to prove. The same applies to the roulette machines that [UK highstreet] bookmakers have.


The way I tested the generator was using a variety of statistical tests.

(1) The first was the results were reasonably distributed, that is the percentage of results were close to expected values. In the craps games I would hope if I ran 100,000 games about half win half lose (more accurately about 49% 51%). Technically I would be worried if in a large number of tests the results were not quite close to the expected mean. If I ran 20 runs of 100,000 games, 19 of them would have to be within acceptable margins (someone probably knows the "best" method here, but 19 out of 20 worked for me).

(2) Next is that unexpected results do occur. It's no good if exactly 49 games in EVERY 100 win - one does expect good runs and bad runs. Without going into too much detail - these can be quantified and the range of results (e.g. 30 wins in 100 happened x times, 31 wins in 100 y times, etc.) tested to ensure most are close but there are a few unexpected ones as well.

(3) Use the output results and massage them, then test those. For instance in craps how many rolls between 7's (even though for the punter some of these cause a win and others a loss). This can be calculated to an expected distribution and compared as above. There are other interesting tests such as "parking taxis".


I should suggest stay away unless the organisation is very well known (in UK there are several well known high-street bookmakers or casino chains) as they have too much to lose. I use the same logic when considering the chances of a land-based casino cheating punters - they're making enough money already, why would they risk losing it all?


Personally I never gamble online (except freebies).

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