darkoz
darkoz
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Mission146
July 19th, 2021 at 12:00:30 AM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

A computer controls the exact speed of the wheel and can speed it up or slow it down and the release and speed of the ball is completely controlled by compressed air.. The computer can make the ball land in any section of the wheel it likes based on what the algorithm tells it to do. This is why for payouts it's treated just like a slot machine. If you win over a certain amount they will come around with a tax form for you to fill out before they pay you. This roulette set up works just like a slot machine works. The amount of money it keeps and the amount of money it pays out is a foregone conclusion.



I'm asking you to prove it, not say it.

I know about the compressed air and I know about the speed of the wheel being controlled.

You need to prove that when the ball hits struts and starts flying through the air, the computer can control a bouncing, flying loose object

Don't say it. Prove it with a link to a legit article that explains how it's controlled with prearranged outcomes similar to a slot machine.

You also seem to lack the knowledge of how a slot machine works. In E-roulette there is no pushing of a button that triggers a millisecond decision from an RNG so why you think it works like a slot boggles the mind.
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OnceDear
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Mission146
July 19th, 2021 at 2:31:18 AM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Do you know anything about how these games work. About 10 years ago two repair people who worked on these automatic roulette setups figured out how the algorithm works and how to beat it and they took the company for hundreds of thousands before they were caught. The machines did not go out of production they just changed the betting procedure which made them much much harder to bet. Essentially what they did is they speeded up the game making it very difficult to do the calculations needed so you know where to place your bet.

When I first saw this game and was looking at it one of the pit people I knew saw me looking at it and knowing that I was a roulette player told me not to bother with it, in a roundabout way. I looked into it and he was right, it's not legit game of roulette. It is a legit slot machine.


I'd love to see your evidence.... Of anything.
Not holding my breath, though.
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Mission146
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July 19th, 2021 at 3:01:15 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

I'm asking you to prove it, not say it.

I know about the compressed air and I know about the speed of the wheel being controlled.

You need to prove that when the ball hits struts and starts flying through the air, the computer can control a bouncing, flying loose object

Don't say it. Prove it with a link to a legit article that explains how it's controlled with prearranged outcomes similar to a slot machine.

You also seem to lack the knowledge of how a slot machine works. In E-roulette there is no pushing of a button that triggers a millisecond decision from an RNG so why you think it works like a slot boggles the mind.



Evenbob’s posts generally lead me to conclude that the posts saying something is supposed to be its own proof.

EB’s post says it, and therefore, it must be true…because no EB post has ever been wrong.

In the State of Nevada, given that the game represents an actual Roulette wheel, the probabilities must correspond. That’s true of the ones that look even more like a slot machine.

That said, I do think aspects of what EB is saying are theoretically possible such that I wouldn’t COMPLETELY dismiss it outright. I mostly dismiss it. It would have to be a rogue operator.

Of course, if it could be the case (or was ever demonstrated to be anywhere) you could just fade the big action (bet what they are not) for smaller amounts and essentially print money. I do not think this is the case and do not recommend trying it.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
darkoz
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July 19th, 2021 at 4:18:27 AM permalink
I have spent countless hours playing E-roulette and the while there are a few types of wheels with a larger "dead" ball which seems to just flop down into a pocket, most models have a small ivory ball that bounces, zigzags, and even careens across the wheel.

The laws of physics would have to be violated to make those games rigged.

Now for the kicker. If EB had suggested E-Craps was rigged or E-Baccarat, I have seen some evidence that it's possible!

Evidence seen with my own eyes!
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Mission146
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July 19th, 2021 at 4:32:43 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

I have spent countless hours playing E-roulette and the while there are a few types of wheels with a larger "dead" ball which seems to just flop down into a pocket, most models have a small ivory ball that bounces, zigzags, and even careens across the wheel.

The laws of physics would have to be violated to make those games rigged.

Now for the kicker. If EB had suggested E-Craps was rigged or E-Baccarat, I have seen some evidence that it's possible!

Evidence seen with my own eyes!



Magnets that can be programmed to be turned on and off combined with a ball with a metal core.

Like I said, I think it's theoretically possible to rig one of these bad boys...I just seriously doubt it's the case anywhere. Since EB seems so sure, perhaps he should just go cruising casinos and looking for big bettors on the E-Roulette (who are in no short supply) and just directly fade the sections of the wheel that would be best for them.

If he can buck the house edge for ten or twenty thousand spins and presents his data accordingly, turning an assumed 5.26% House Edge into a profit, then I'm all ears.

Until then, the post is just more blowing of wind. Or breaking of wind. Either way, the post smells.
Last edited by: Mission146 on Jul 19, 2021
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
darkoz
darkoz
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July 19th, 2021 at 4:39:46 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

Magnets that can be programmed to be turned on and off combined with a ball with a metal core.

Like I said, I think it's theoretically possible to rig one of these bad boys...I just seriously doubt it's the case anywhere. Since EB seems so sure, perhaps he should just go cruising casinos and looking for big bettors on the E-Roulette (who are in no short supply) and just directly fade the sections of the wheel that would be best for them.

If he can buck the house edge for ten or twenty thousand spins and presents his data accordingly, turning an assumed 5.26% House Edge into a pocket, then I'm all ears.

Until then, the post is just more blowing of wind. Or breaking of wind. Either way, the post smells.



What really makes the post smell is the Topsy turvy logic.

He can't beat the game because it's rigged (that is precisely the type of game an AP could beat, just figure out how it's rigged, then make bets accordingly).

EB would rather play a fair live roulette game because those he can beat.

Is there such a term as a DP? A Disadvantange Player?
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Mission146
July 19th, 2021 at 5:26:20 AM permalink
Well, they can know the inner sensors know
1. speed of the ball
2. when it will fall into the bowl

and we know this because they can provide these displays



We also know that the wheel can be
3.Sped up or slowed down "imperceptibly"



and this is a picture of the roulette wheel (or at least one version of them) that contains the air compressor

https://www.cammegh.com/our-products/roulette-wheels/slingshot-2/

Quote:

For added flexibility, the Slingshot 2 is available in two variants. The standard model is mounted on top of a floor-standing frame, which houses the air compressor and is designed to fit inside an outer drum or 3rd party betting terminal carousel.



Mission146
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July 19th, 2021 at 5:37:39 AM permalink
I agree that all of these factors combine to make rigging theoretically possible.

There's a pretty important difference between theoretically possible (which I believe) and actually being done (which EvenBob maintains) and that difference is that we can exploit the latter, but not the former.

We obviously would believe that no regulator would outright close a casino, even if it were caught rigging it...and the fine would likely be something to the tune of 0.01% of their revenues, probably less. At worst, they might fine the casino their gross profits on the Roulette game itself, in whole, but of course the Government would get that money and not the players who actually lost money due to the cheating...so what difference does that even make?

But, the point is, EB needs to go find himself a wheel and prove it with data if he says that the case is presently so. Again, it would be relatively easy to exploit, even if EB claims it would be more difficult. Easier than a betting system that does exactly nothing to the house edge.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
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July 19th, 2021 at 6:30:59 AM permalink
mmy issue lies within the wording that cammegh uses

https://www.cammegh.com/our-products/roulette-wheels/mercury-360-rrs/

Quote:

The Mercury 360 RRS (Random Rotor Speed) randomly and imperceptibly changes the rate of deceleration of the rotor from game to game by means of an innovative contactless system.



Why are they saying "imperceptibly"? Well they know that if someone noticed that the wheel was being slowed down or sped up that they would complain and the gaming control boards would have a hell of a life.

i simply think RRS is the rigging and others have different opinions and its pretty much the main reason i dont play roulette any more
EvenBob
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July 19th, 2021 at 9:37:00 AM permalink
This is what it must have been like for Galileo when he tried to explain to the Catholic Church that the earth went around the sun and not the other way around. The conclusion you eventually come to is always the same one. Why bother wising people up, you can't do it and it just makes them angry anyway.

Nevermind. LOL
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal

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