Canyonero
Canyonero
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October 24th, 2014 at 8:23:35 AM permalink
You may have realized in my posts after the WOO sale and also during the Casinomeister crisis, that I am obsessed with wanting to believe in integrity in gambling. So I am quite sensitive about things that might hurt it, and here I go again:

On WOO, 32 Red Casino now carries the Wizard's Seal of approval:



On the 32 Red plc website you can read this (emphasis mine):

32Red was founded by Edward Ware, who left his position as Managing Director of Ladbrokes International in 2000 to pursue his vision of an independent, specialist online casino

So the question is: Is the seal intentionally or accidentally misleading?
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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October 24th, 2014 at 8:39:57 AM permalink
Accidental.

I think the year refers to when Mike started providing the seal of approval to anyone, not when that site first got it.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
1BB
1BB
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October 24th, 2014 at 9:09:28 AM permalink
I'm going to take an educated guess and say that the date refers to when the Wizard of Odds was founded. That would be July 19, 1997. Nothing untoward here.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
Zcore13
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October 24th, 2014 at 10:19:06 AM permalink
Quote: 1BB

I'm going to take an educated guess and say that the date refers to when the Wizard of Odds was founded. That would be July 19, 1997. Nothing untoward here.



I don't remember the Wiz ever giving a review on that Casino and giving his "Seal of Approval" to it??? That's the problem with the sale of his site. He stood for integrity and independent reviews and analysis. That's all changed now. I don't like it. I feel like it's tainted now.



ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
1BB
1BB
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October 24th, 2014 at 10:47:17 AM permalink
I see what you're saying. I was focusing on the date on the seal and not the whole picture. I have a feeling that there will be more of these questions as time goes on. I also wouldn't be surprised to see some changes in this forum going forward. It's no different than any other business.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
Ayecarumba
Ayecarumba
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October 24th, 2014 at 11:23:31 AM permalink


I can understand the confusion. Perhaps the "Since 1997" on the seal needs to be removed, or reworded, "Educating Players Since 1997"
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
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October 24th, 2014 at 11:28:37 AM permalink
The FleaStiff Seal of Approval is awarded with any date you want, depending upon the size of your check.
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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October 24th, 2014 at 11:51:55 AM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba



I can understand the confusion. Perhaps the "Since 1997" on the seal needs to be removed, or reworded, "Educating Players Since 1997"

Or "PROTECTING Players Since 1997" since that what any such seal intends to imply.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
Ayecarumba
Ayecarumba
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October 24th, 2014 at 12:04:42 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

Quote: Ayecarumba



I can understand the confusion. Perhaps the "Since 1997" on the seal needs to be removed, or reworded, "Educating Players Since 1997"

Or "PROTECTING Players Since 1997" since that what any such seal intends to imply.



I wouldn't want someone to read too much into "Protecting". The "Good Houskeeping" seal has a whole bunch of text on it to spell out what their seal represents:

I don't think the WoO seal has the room to describe what the seal means. It doesn't mean that the Wizard will refund a player's money if they make high edge bets and lose.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
EvenBob
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October 24th, 2014 at 12:17:28 PM permalink
Does Mike approve of the casino, or is
it the new owners? Big difference.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
Ayecarumba
Ayecarumba
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October 24th, 2014 at 1:05:40 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Does Mike approve of the casino, or is
it the new owners? Big difference.



The Wizard seal means Mike has vetted it. See the details here.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
1BB
1BB
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October 24th, 2014 at 1:07:03 PM permalink
All that really matters is who owns and controls the seal.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
Zcore13
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October 24th, 2014 at 1:24:53 PM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba

The Wizard seal means Mike has vetted it. See the details here.



It used to be the Wizard vetted it. Now it says Wizard Management. That means if they are offered a really good cut of everyone's losses, it's probably going to be vetted. Doesn't mean anything anymore if it's not the Wiz himself doing the review and vetting.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
wudged
wudged
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October 24th, 2014 at 1:26:06 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

Quote: Ayecarumba

The Wizard seal means Mike has vetted it. See the details here.



It used to be the Wizard vetted it. Now it says Wizard Management. That means if they are offered a really good cut of everyone's losses, it's probably going to be vetted. Doesn't mean anything anymore if it's not the Wiz himself doing the review and vetting.


ZCore13



That page specifically states "including the Wizard himself."
EvenBob
EvenBob
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October 24th, 2014 at 1:32:28 PM permalink
"Any casino with the Wizard seal of approval has been vetted by Wizard management, including the Wizard himself. We will promote such casinos as trustworthy casinos you can feel safe to play at. However, in the interests of giving players choices, we may also market casinos that don’t quite meet our high standards, as identified by not having the Wizard seal."

So if it doesn't have the seal, hang onto
your wallets? That's the impression it
gives. 'Including' the Wiz? So it's 8 people
and Mike deciding? At least they gave him
an 'including'..
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
Buzzard
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October 24th, 2014 at 3:30:47 PM permalink
" If you ever have a dispute with a casino and are a confirmed “Wizard” player, then we will try to help. "

What is a confirmed " Wizard " player, Might I ask ? ? ?
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
AxelWolf
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October 24th, 2014 at 4:06:54 PM permalink
Quote: Buzzard

" If you ever have a dispute with a casino and are a confirmed “Wizard” player, then we will try to help. "

What is a confirmed " Wizard " player, Might I ask ? ? ?

You use their affiliate links they provide, when you sign up and deposit.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
rxwine
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October 24th, 2014 at 5:01:54 PM permalink
Quote: Buzzard

What is a confirmed " Wizard " player, Might I ask ? ? ?



Having your name on the ban list. Be play'ng the Wizard.
Sanitized for Your Protection
rxwine
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December 5th, 2014 at 7:39:10 PM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba



I can understand the confusion. Perhaps the "Since 1997" on the seal needs to be removed, or reworded, "Educating Players Since 1997"




See they went to Est 1997,

Good move.
Sanitized for Your Protection
onenickelmiracle
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December 5th, 2014 at 7:56:17 PM permalink
Quote: rxwine

Quote: Ayecarumba



I can understand the confusion. Perhaps the "Since 1997" on the seal needs to be removed, or reworded, "Educating Players Since 1997"




See they went to Est 1997,

Good move.

Much better. For looks, maybe center wizardofodds then underneath with the same curvature est. 1997. At the bottom, approved remains the same.
I am a robot.
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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December 5th, 2014 at 8:08:54 PM permalink
Aesthetically? You're probably right. But let's be thankful that it's been changed at all. Good job.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
FleaStiff
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December 6th, 2014 at 2:18:11 AM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba

The "Good Houskeeping" seal has a whole bunch of text on it to spell out what their seal represents.

That is because of a humungous lawsuit over serious injuries by an unsafe product and Good Housekeeping had to say 'if it doesn't live up to claims made in our magazine, we will get you a new device or refund your money". The consumer said, No, pay for my injuries, I relied up your approval of the product.

I would NOT say "protecting".... their is no insurance fund that re-imburses gamblers for losses if the casino is crooked, so don't invite any such claims by someone who thinks "it was a safety net rather than just a warning sign".

There is a big difference in saying No Rip Tides Detected During My Two Day Visit in 2012 than No Rip Tides Detected or No Rip Tides.

Think of the accountant's certification: Examined the books according to normal industry standards and such controls as appear to be in place and conclude that the books fairly represent the situation based upon such tests as we were able to perform at the time and what we had been informed of their then current reputation in the industry and our opinions of the software they claim to be in use.

The absence of a certificate might warn or alert someone, but don't say the presence of a certificate "protects" or "assures". I would merely state that the presence of a certificate or seal "informs the vigilant gambler that certain tests were performed and Wizard Management therefore reached certain conclusions as to trustworthyness and reputation in the industry".
1BB
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December 6th, 2014 at 2:58:56 AM permalink
Quote: rxwine

Quote: Ayecarumba



I can understand the confusion. Perhaps the "Since 1997" on the seal needs to be removed, or reworded, "Educating Players Since 1997"




See they went to Est 1997,

Good move.



The new owners and staff continue to demonstrate that they are fair and reasonable.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
AxelWolf
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December 6th, 2014 at 4:16:44 AM permalink
Quote: 1BB

Quote: rxwine

Quote: Ayecarumba



I can understand the confusion. Perhaps the "Since 1997" on the seal needs to be removed, or reworded, "Educating Players Since 1997"




See they went to Est 1997,

Good move.



The new owners and staff continue to demonstrate that they are fair and reasonable.

The site has new owners? I haven't noticed. Other than less drama the last few weeks. but it is the holidays.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Canyonero
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December 6th, 2014 at 4:52:43 AM permalink
Good move changing the seal. Well done!
100xOdds
100xOdds
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December 6th, 2014 at 7:37:25 AM permalink
Old logo for prosterity:



and yes, I like the new one better. no longer misleading.
altho I like the red hat from the old logo over the white hat.
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
Greasyjohn
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December 6th, 2014 at 8:30:55 AM permalink
I like the old design, red hat and layout better (except for the "since" part).
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