Bonus Poker game with 101.41% return
Here is a list of their standard video poker games, in alphabetical order.
| Game | Pay table | Return |
|---|---|---|
| Aces & Faces | 800-50-40-25-8-5-4-3-2-1 | 99.26% |
| Bonus Poker | 800-50-80-40-25-9-6-4-3-2-1 | 101.41% |
| Deuces and Joker Wild | 2000-800-25-12-9-6-3-3-3-2-1 | 99.07% |
| Deuces Wild | 800-25-16-13-4-3-2-2-1 | 96.77% |
| Double Joker | 800-100-25-8-5-4-3-2-1 | 98.10% |
| Jacks or Better | 800-50-25-9-6-4-3-2-1 | 99.54% |
| Joker Poker | 1000-200-100-50-17-7-5-3-2-1-1 | 98.60% |
| Tens or Better | 800-50-25-6-5-4-3-2-1 | 99.14% |
Pretty standard games and pay tables except Bonus Poker. That pay table is not a copy and paste error from Jacks or Better. See for yourself:
Here is the return table.
| Hand | Pays | Combinations | Probability | Return |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Royal flush | 800 | 41,114,670 | 0.000025 | 0.019801 |
| Straight flush | 50 | 181,543,809 | 0.000109 | 0.005465 |
| Four aces | 80 | 325,032,485 | 0.000196 | 0.015654 |
| Four 2-4 | 40 | 875,792,610 | 0.000527 | 0.021089 |
| Four 5-K | 25 | 2,723,605,552 | 0.001640 | 0.040991 |
| Full house | 9 | 19,122,956,883 | 0.011512 | 0.103610 |
| Flush | 6 | 18,294,719,526 | 0.011014 | 0.066082 |
| Straight | 4 | 18,651,792,365 | 0.011229 | 0.044914 |
| Three of a kind | 3 | 123,666,922,527 | 0.074449 | 0.223346 |
| Two pair | 2 | 214,745,513,679 | 0.129279 | 0.258558 |
| Jacks or Better | 1 | 356,472,431,514 | 0.214600 | 0.214600 |
| Nothing | 0 | 906,001,117,480 | 0.545422 | 0.000000 |
| Total | 1,661,102,543,100 | 1.000000 | 1.014109 |
In case anyone is wondering the denomination of the game is 10 cents to $10.
No particular question. Just letting you guys know about.
It is games like this that make people think that unregulated online casino's are cheating. How can they possibly offer a 101% game plus give sign up bonuses plus pay people like LCB as an affiliate? At least B&M's give a game like this but there are only 2-3 terminals and people most likely are going to play other things while there and waiting for the good ones to open. With online there is no limit to the amount of people that could play them.
If an online place would offer only 98% games then my perception would be that they are legit. Perception is reality even if it is false.
So let's follow the link you provided - to LatestCasinoBonuses.com. This site owns WoV Forums and they make money as an online casino affiliate. You failed to mention this clear conflict of interest. Mind you, your post was not marked as an ad, but seems to the unsuspecting reader as editorial content if you so will.
At LCB the top "recommendend" casino offering this game is called Intertops Casino Classic. It is licensed in Curacao. Can you quote the regulatory provision that led to your assumption that the game behaves like a deck of cards, not a slot machine?
Also, assuming this is an AP opportunity indeed, chances are you will not get paid if you sign up with a bonus trough LCB:
Quote: Intertops Terms and Conditions
2.6 Bonus programs are intended for recreational bettors only. Professional players or players considered to be abusing the bonus system may have their bonuses, as well as any winnings from wagers based on such bonuses, forfeited and be subject to further sanctions at the sole discretion of the Intertops management. In case of abuse, Intertops reserves the right to discontinue a customer's membership and to prevent the player from accessing any Intertops sites in the future.
This is a catchall rule basically allowing the casino to not pay winning players. And then what is a player gonna do? Sue them in Curacao? Your post doesn't mention any of these caveats. (If something seems to good to be true, it probably is...)
Wizard, please consider putting any ads and links to LCB in the sidebars only, clearly marked as ads. And try to provide the unbiased quality content in your posts as before. I am sure it is +EV in the long run...
Quote: Neutrinoperhaps it was unintended? the 101.4% seems significantly out of place compared to the other payouts.
That's really the big question, and it's not that easy to tell for sure without a good amount of data. But those who are willing to try to find out could really hammer the machine for a lot of money if it's programmed to split out random cards from a standard deck. But even if it's set that high, you still have to worry about getting paid.
Quote: CanyoneroWizard, in your analysis you assume that the Video Poker machine behaves like a real deck of cards would. This is the law in Nevada. But the Nevada law does not apply to online casinos. We have learned this during the Spielo scandal. Even in jurisdictions that have such provisions written *somewhere*, they don't seem to be legally binding.
Yes, I assumed that but I never assured anybody that was the case.
Quote:So let's follow the link you provided - to LatestCasinoBonuses.com. This site owns WoV Forums and they make money as an online casino affiliate. You failed to mention this clear conflict of interest. Mind you, your post was not marked as an ad, but seems to the unsuspecting reader as editorial content if you so will.
They were honestly the only other site I could find to address this software brand. Furthermore, it was just a forum link to give a little background on the software, as I was not familiar with it before yesterday.
Regarding your other points, I think everybody knows that online gambling has feeble to no regulation, depending on the jurisdiction. If the UK was hoping players would take their regulation seriously, that hope evaporated, with me at least, in their flaccid handling of the Spielo case, but that is another story.
You bring up a lot of points, but I will still have a say in who gets a "Wizard approved" seal on the Wizard sites.
Quote: Neutrinoperhaps it was unintended? the 101.4% seems significantly out of place compared to the other payouts.
That is what I would bet on. Their other pay tables were common ones at about 99%. I think they just got confused.
Quote: tringlomaneThat's really the big question, and it's not that easy to tell for sure without a good amount of data. But those who are willing to try to find out could really hammer the machine for a lot of money if it's programmed to split out random cards from a standard deck. But even if it's set that high, you still have to worry about getting paid.
Yeah I agree, I miss 4oak telling us about how dangerous online gambling is :/
Quote: NeutrinoIs the strategy for the 101.4% bonus poker just roughly the 9/6 JoB strategy?
Yes, basic strategies are actually identical.
I can understand this as a nickel machine in a land casino but online up to 10 bucks a bet.
I actually went over to LCB to post this bonus poker information.
I am really curious to see the response over there.
Just too good to be true. I wonder what the players over there think?
Wizard, posts like this should be duplicated over at LCB also. Just a thought.
Quote: terapinedWow, 101.4 % just seems to good to be true.
I can understand this as a nickel machine in a land casino but online up to 10 bucks a bet.
I actually went over to LCB to post this bonus poker information.
I am really curious to see the response over there.
Just too good to be true. I wonder what the players over there think?
Wizard, posts like this should be duplicated over at LCB also. Just a thought.
Thanks for posting over at LCB, as I'm sure their readership will appreciate the information more than over here. However, I worry that I'll get taken to task, again, for ruining a good advantage play.
The two sites are completely independent except for ownership. It would be a technical nightmare to automatically post the same thing on both sites.
Can you provide a link, please, to the LCB post.
Quote: WizardIt would be a technical nightmare to automatically post the same thing on both sites.
CtrlA->CtrlC->CtrlV :-)
Quote: rdw4potusCtrlA->CtrlC->CtrlV :-)
Not with those damn tables involved...
I dread posting tables on this forum. Is there an easy method I'm missing?
Quote: tringlomaneNot with those damn tables involved...
I dread posting tables on this forum. Is there an easy method I'm missing?
There was a post a while back on how to do it. I can't find it now. Maybe someone has the link.
Quote: tringlomaneNot with those damn tables involved...
I dread posting tables on this forum. Is there an easy method I'm missing?
If its in a spread sheet, just copy and paste it to http://miplet.net/table/ :+)
Quote: mipletIf its in a spread sheet, just copy and paste it to http://miplet.net/table/ :+)
| Thank | This | much |
|---|---|---|
| you | is | much |
| miplet! | much | easier! |
| Thank | This | much |
|---|---|---|
| you | is | much |
| miplet! | much | easier! |
And you can change the dark blue as well with some work
Quote: WizardThanks for posting over at LCB, as I'm sure their readership will appreciate the information more than over here. However, I worry that I'll get taken to task, again, for ruining a good advantage play.
The two sites are completely independent except for ownership. It would be a technical nightmare to automatically post the same thing on both sites.
Can you provide a link, please, to the LCB post.
http://www.latestcasinobonuses.com/onlinecasinobonusforum/casinos/bonus-video-poker-101-41-payback-at-intertops-casino-classic/
I don't really spend any time there because the responses to my few posts over there have been overall disappointing.
Now I have to admit I might not be appreciated because my posts are dripping with skepticism regarding online gambling :-)
I am also disappointed that Zuga doesn't really get involved here.
1st day, he had a big presence. then well, not whole lot.
I was expecting Zuga to discuss and educate us on various aspects of online gambling and correcting any misconceptions since he is an expert.
I was also hoping for posts regarding the eastern Europe gambling scene.
Cmon Zuga, come out and play with us. How about your take on the Ivey decision.
Quote: terapinedI am also disappointed that Zuga doesn't really get involved here.
1st day, he had a big presence. then well, not whole lot.
I was expecting Zuga to discuss and educate us on various aspects of online gambling and correcting any misconceptions since he is an expert.
I was also hoping for posts regarding the eastern Europe gambling scene.
Cmon Zuga, come out and play with us. How about your take on the Ivey decision.
Zuga already had his hands full before the sale and this is just one more thing on his plate. I know a thing or two about online gambling, as I've been doing it and writing about if for 15 years. If you have a question, go ahead and ask.
Quote: WizardI know a thing or two about online gambling, as I've been doing it and writing about if for 15 years. If you have a question, go ahead and ask.
How trustworthy is casinomeister?
Did you actually deposit and play this game? Or is it for fun money ?Quote: Wizard
I have seen many cases where the show good pay tables but don't actually have the game.
Would more than happy to test/play (probably no US players ) and post results however the terms and conditions are outrageous
2.6 Bonus programs are intended for recreational bettors only. Professional players or players considered to be abusing the bonus system may have their bonuses, as well as any winnings from wagers based on such bonuses, forfeited.
Would you endorse a casino with this rule?
They have every right to "discontinue a customer's membership and to prevent the player from accessing any Intertops sites in the future."
But to forfeit any winnings from wagers based on such bonuses is absolutely BS.
Even if you forgo the bonuses and play a 101.4% @ $10 denominations and pop 2 RF's I would not be shocked if they tried to weasel on payments.
Intertops has been around for a long time.
Perhaps a bad question to ask A professional about another in the same business. You should research that information and use your own judgment.Quote: NeutrinoHow trustworthy is casinomeister?
Perhaps it's just a cultural thing. They may misidentify skepticism and reality. I used to be pretty good at collecting what was due. But on the internet. Forgetaboudit.
Quote: AxelWolfPerhaps a bad question to ask A professional about another in the same business. You should research that information and use your own judgment.
I have my own judgement. 4ofakind has taught me a lot in this regard. I'm just curious to what wizard has to say.
Quote: NeutrinoHow trustworthy is casinomeister?
It used to be the go to site for online casino information. Then there was the "Spielo" scandal a while back, where a fraudulent online game was exposed. Bryan "Casinomeister" Bailey tried to downplay the scandal, banned forum members and censored posts. The people behind the fraud were partners of his and he had a financial stake in the whole situation (as an affiliate).
(It also turned out the Gibraltar "Gaming Commissioner" is just some guy with no jursidiction, deeply unprofessional and generally useless. Also, he seemed to be buddies with Bryan.)
Since then, the site has been dead to me.
Quote: terapinedhttp://www.latestcasinobonuses.com/onlinecasinobonusforum/casinos/bonus-video-poker-101-41-payback-at-intertops-casino-classic/
I don't really spend any time there because the responses to my few posts over there have been overall disappointing.
Now I have to admit I might not be appreciated because my posts are dripping with skepticism regarding online gambling :-)
That board over at LCB may have a huge amount of members but in reality, tumbleweeds rolling through the empty streets.
You would think with a post in the title with 101.41 % return might garner some interest.
My LCB post 56 views 3 replies, one of the replies was me so only 2 LCB members replied.
The Wizards post here, 809 views, 25 replies.
That says a lot right there.
Quote: terapinedThat board over at LCB may have a huge amount of members but in reality, tumbleweeds rolling through the empty streets.
You would think with a post in the title with 101.41 % return might garner some interest.
My LCB post 56 views 3 replies, one of the replies was me so only 2 LCB members replied.
The Wizards post here, 809 views, 25 replies.
That says a lot right there.
I noticed there seems to be a big discrepancy between posters and active members there as well. I think the vast majority of members are simply using the bonus information without participating or even reading the forum itself. So a different paradigm than this board.
Quote: beachbumbabsI noticed there seems to be a big discrepancy between posters and active members there as well. I think the vast majority of members are simply using the bonus information without participating or even reading the forum itself. So a different paradigm than this board.
And even on this board, about 50% of all members are postless, no?
Quote: NeutrinoThanks wizard, this game doesn't exist anymore :(
Thanks for the bad news. I hope at least one forum member took advantage of it while it lasted.
Quote: NeutrinoThanks wizard, this game doesn't exist anymore :(
Well, I guess that answers any question as to whether or not the cards were dealt fairly.
Quote: Mission146Well, I guess that answers any question as to whether or not the cards were dealt fairly.
Definitely this. So that's a small silver lining.
Just because they change paytable doesn't mean it's dealt fair. Everything could be gaffed to return 3% less than a Random games payback should. They may have simply wanted a bigger hold to avoid losing due to bonuses and affiliate fees. They cannot win enough if people play smart. That doesn't mean the player has an advantage even @ + 1% theoretical.
There are many ways they can rig the games.
If an online casino was going to gaff something, I believe they would use random setting most of, or all of the month, as long the numbers were good. If extra revenue is needed, simple switch to gaff mode. They could also set it to detect large wagers and go into FU mode.
FYI I have had problems with Miami Cub in the past(not concerning fairness).
My guess is that someone made a bot and started farming the game.
I mentioned the FPDW a few times. I played and did well. They even had some good progressives. A Few guys hit and ran on the $5 denominations FPDW. Even after the pulled them , 1 day a week (sunday )you could play them as part of there promotion program.Quote: petro5Dimes casino used to have a full pay Deuces Wild but they removed it some time ago.
My guess is that someone made a bot and started farming the game.
I haven't heard of any VP bots being used there (do you know of a VP bot? Id be interested just for the sake of curiosity) I would never suggest anyone use one. It's almost always against the term and conditions.
A online casino used this bot play (the guy denied it) as an excuse to no pay a player 10s of thousands (he figured something out on BJ, he made and got paid 100s of thousands with a fairly small deposit but they still owd him) One excuse used was he used a bot. They tracked his mouse movements and said a human couldn't be that precise where the pointer clicked on the action buttons (I fine it strange they can even track that) My though was.... he could have just been using the keyboard keys to hit, stand, split double or whatever. The reality was, they knew he figured something out but had no real proof. They finally got him on a different technicality I believe. It was a mini scandal involving recorded phone calls, email and chat logs. I was told the casino management said some shocking things regarding personal harm( not 100% how that played out, or if it was recorded)
