Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
• Posts: 22929
October 8th, 2014 at 12:36:45 PM permalink
As promised, I will be giving iGaming a greater emphasis in the future. In that effort, I am working on a review of Wager Gaming Technology software.

Here is a list of their standard video poker games, in alphabetical order.

Game Pay table Return
Aces & Faces 800-50-40-25-8-5-4-3-2-1 99.26%
Bonus Poker 800-50-80-40-25-9-6-4-3-2-1 101.41%
Deuces and Joker Wild 2000-800-25-12-9-6-3-3-3-2-1 99.07%
Deuces Wild 800-25-16-13-4-3-2-2-1 96.77%
Double Joker 800-100-25-8-5-4-3-2-1 98.10%
Jacks or Better 800-50-25-9-6-4-3-2-1 99.54%
Joker Poker 1000-200-100-50-17-7-5-3-2-1-1 98.60%
Tens or Better 800-50-25-6-5-4-3-2-1 99.14%

Pretty standard games and pay tables except Bonus Poker. That pay table is not a copy and paste error from Jacks or Better. See for yourself:

Here is the return table.

Hand Pays Combinations Probability Return
Royal flush 800 41,114,670 0.000025 0.019801
Straight flush 50 181,543,809 0.000109 0.005465
Four aces 80 325,032,485 0.000196 0.015654
Four 2-4 40 875,792,610 0.000527 0.021089
Four 5-K 25 2,723,605,552 0.001640 0.040991
Full house 9 19,122,956,883 0.011512 0.103610
Flush 6 18,294,719,526 0.011014 0.066082
Straight 4 18,651,792,365 0.011229 0.044914
Three of a kind 3 123,666,922,527 0.074449 0.223346
Two pair 2 214,745,513,679 0.129279 0.258558
Jacks or Better 1 356,472,431,514 0.214600 0.214600
Nothing 0 906,001,117,480 0.545422 0.000000
Total 1,661,102,543,100 1.000000 1.014109

In case anyone is wondering the denomination of the game is 10 cents to \$10.

No particular question. Just letting you guys know about.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
GWAE
Joined: Sep 20, 2013
• Posts: 9854
October 8th, 2014 at 2:27:11 PM permalink
sorry ahead of time, not meaning to bash online casinos. However...

It is games like this that make people think that unregulated online casino's are cheating. How can they possibly offer a 101% game plus give sign up bonuses plus pay people like LCB as an affiliate? At least B&M's give a game like this but there are only 2-3 terminals and people most likely are going to play other things while there and waiting for the good ones to open. With online there is no limit to the amount of people that could play them.

If an online place would offer only 98% games then my perception would be that they are legit. Perception is reality even if it is false.
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed. I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
Canyonero
Joined: Nov 19, 2012
• Posts: 509
October 8th, 2014 at 3:14:02 PM permalink
Wizard, in your analysis you assume that the Video Poker machine behaves like a real deck of cards would. This is the law in Nevada. But the Nevada law does not apply to online casinos. We have learned this during the Spielo scandal. Even in jurisdictions that have such provisions written *somewhere*, they don't seem to be legally binding.

So let's follow the link you provided - to LatestCasinoBonuses.com. This site owns WoV Forums and they make money as an online casino affiliate. You failed to mention this clear conflict of interest. Mind you, your post was not marked as an ad, but seems to the unsuspecting reader as editorial content if you so will.

At LCB the top "recommendend" casino offering this game is called Intertops Casino Classic. It is licensed in Curacao. Can you quote the regulatory provision that led to your assumption that the game behaves like a deck of cards, not a slot machine?

Also, assuming this is an AP opportunity indeed, chances are you will not get paid if you sign up with a bonus trough LCB:

Quote: Intertops Terms and Conditions

2.6 Bonus programs are intended for recreational bettors only. Professional players or players considered to be abusing the bonus system may have their bonuses, as well as any winnings from wagers based on such bonuses, forfeited and be subject to further sanctions at the sole discretion of the Intertops management. In case of abuse, Intertops reserves the right to discontinue a customer's membership and to prevent the player from accessing any Intertops sites in the future.

This is a catchall rule basically allowing the casino to not pay winning players. And then what is a player gonna do? Sue them in Curacao? Your post doesn't mention any of these caveats. (If something seems to good to be true, it probably is...)

Wizard, please consider putting any ads and links to LCB in the sidebars only, clearly marked as ads. And try to provide the unbiased quality content in your posts as before. I am sure it is +EV in the long run...
tringlomane
Joined: Aug 25, 2012
• Posts: 6270
October 8th, 2014 at 3:28:36 PM permalink
Yeah, I would be cautious about this for sure, especially if the denomination maxes out at \$10. But all the other games paybacks are in-line with what I expect. But even if it is from a random, equally probable deck of cards, you still have to have faith that they will pay you off on a machine that will definitely cost them money if it's run like a machine would be in Nevada.
Neutrino
Joined: Feb 20, 2014
• Posts: 515
October 8th, 2014 at 3:35:58 PM permalink
perhaps it was unintended? the 101.4% seems significantly out of place compared to the other payouts.
tringlomane
Joined: Aug 25, 2012
• Posts: 6270
October 8th, 2014 at 3:43:47 PM permalink
Quote: Neutrino

perhaps it was unintended? the 101.4% seems significantly out of place compared to the other payouts.

That's really the big question, and it's not that easy to tell for sure without a good amount of data. But those who are willing to try to find out could really hammer the machine for a lot of money if it's programmed to split out random cards from a standard deck. But even if it's set that high, you still have to worry about getting paid.
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
• Posts: 22929
October 8th, 2014 at 3:49:04 PM permalink
Quote: Canyonero

Wizard, in your analysis you assume that the Video Poker machine behaves like a real deck of cards would. This is the law in Nevada. But the Nevada law does not apply to online casinos. We have learned this during the Spielo scandal. Even in jurisdictions that have such provisions written *somewhere*, they don't seem to be legally binding.

Yes, I assumed that but I never assured anybody that was the case.

Quote:

So let's follow the link you provided - to LatestCasinoBonuses.com. This site owns WoV Forums and they make money as an online casino affiliate. You failed to mention this clear conflict of interest. Mind you, your post was not marked as an ad, but seems to the unsuspecting reader as editorial content if you so will.

They were honestly the only other site I could find to address this software brand. Furthermore, it was just a forum link to give a little background on the software, as I was not familiar with it before yesterday.

Regarding your other points, I think everybody knows that online gambling has feeble to no regulation, depending on the jurisdiction. If the UK was hoping players would take their regulation seriously, that hope evaporated, with me at least, in their flaccid handling of the Spielo case, but that is another story.

You bring up a lot of points, but I will still have a say in who gets a "Wizard approved" seal on the Wizard sites.

Quote: Neutrino

perhaps it was unintended? the 101.4% seems significantly out of place compared to the other payouts.

That is what I would bet on. Their other pay tables were common ones at about 99%. I think they just got confused.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Neutrino
Joined: Feb 20, 2014
• Posts: 515
October 8th, 2014 at 3:49:06 PM permalink
Quote: tringlomane

That's really the big question, and it's not that easy to tell for sure without a good amount of data. But those who are willing to try to find out could really hammer the machine for a lot of money if it's programmed to split out random cards from a standard deck. But even if it's set that high, you still have to worry about getting paid.

Yeah I agree, I miss 4oak telling us about how dangerous online gambling is :/
Neutrino
Joined: Feb 20, 2014
• Posts: 515
October 8th, 2014 at 3:50:57 PM permalink
Is the strategy for the 101.4% bonus poker just roughly the 9/6 JoB strategy?
tringlomane
Joined: Aug 25, 2012