pauldrew00
pauldrew00
Joined: May 18, 2014
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May 19th, 2014 at 8:27:39 AM permalink
Hey Folks,

I have come across an online casino that uses real dealers. The cool thing is you can pretty much just sit and watch as long as you want without having to play any hands. It's an 8 deck game but they half shoe it so somewhere around the end of the fourth deck they re-shuffle.

My question: what would be the best way to card count these games? I understand the low penetration is a disadvantage but is it still possible to work things in my favor considering I can just sit and watch until the count is favorable? Or is it still a wasted effort?
Buzzard
Buzzard
Joined: Oct 28, 2012
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May 19th, 2014 at 8:40:34 AM permalink
the rules... DUH
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
kewlj
kewlj
Joined: Apr 17, 2012
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May 19th, 2014 at 8:57:29 AM permalink
IF it is really a legitimate game, meaning no cheating, and IF the rules are close to decent, and IF they really allowed you to jump in and out at will, then yes you could only play when you had an advantage and it certainly would be +EV (even flat betting).

BUT there were a lot of IF's there. lol I have no experience with online games. Personally, I could never get past the "IF it is really a legitimate game?"
Just say no to 6:5 Blackjack, Continuous shuffle machines and Blackjack the Forum. All are Negative expected value.
pauldrew00
pauldrew00
Joined: May 18, 2014
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May 19th, 2014 at 9:30:55 AM permalink
Quote: kewlj

IF it is really a legitimate game, meaning no cheating, and IF the rules are close to decent, and IF they really allowed you to jump in and out at will, then yes you could only play when you had an advantage and it certainly would be +EV (even flat betting).

BUT there were a lot of IF's there. lol I have no experience with online games. Personally, I could never get past the "IF it is really a legitimate game?"



I have no reason to believe it isn't legitimate

As for the rules: dealer stays on all 17s, no surrender, no RSA
AcesAndEights
AcesAndEights
Joined: Jan 5, 2012
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May 19th, 2014 at 11:38:47 AM permalink
Quote: pauldrew00

I have no reason to believe it isn't legitimate

As for the rules: dealer stays on all 17s, no surrender, no RSA


Those are decent rules. If you assume DAS as wall, I get a house edge of 0.43% off the top using the Wizard's calculator. So fairly exploitable if you only bet when the count is good. I'm not sure how often that would be, though, with 50% pen. Depending on the game speed and the maximum bet allowed, your hourly could be pretty dismal. Definitely sim it before you start, to make sure you're not wasting your time.

I would worry about getting paid though. I'm not an expert at online casinos, but if they aren't operating in a jurisdiction with some kind of decent regulation, I wouldn't be surprised if they deny paying you because they realized that you are card counting, and they have it written in their regulations that engaging in any behavior that gives the player an advantage is defined as cheating (by them) and therefore they don't have to pay you.

Maybe I'm just paranoid, but this seems like something that has happened before at internet casinos. So make sure you're prepared and read all of their rules. And don't risk too much money before you've been paid at least once.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
EdgeLooker
EdgeLooker
Joined: Jan 4, 2012
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May 19th, 2014 at 12:28:10 PM permalink
Just looked this rule up pertaining to live dealers at one of the popular online sportsbook/casino's:

Professional card counters are prohibited. If you are found to be a professional card counter playing in our Live Dealer, your account is subject to immediate closure and all winnings will be forfeited.
AxiomOfChoice
AxiomOfChoice
Joined: Sep 12, 2012
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May 19th, 2014 at 12:47:35 PM permalink
Quote: EdgeLooker

Just looked this rule up pertaining to live dealers at one of the popular online sportsbook/casino's:

Professional card counters are prohibited. If you are found to be a professional card counter playing in our Live Dealer, your account is subject to immediate closure and all winnings will be forfeited.



Make sure to keep your amateur status. And, withdraw often.
AcesAndEights
AcesAndEights
Joined: Jan 5, 2012
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May 19th, 2014 at 12:48:04 PM permalink
Quote: EdgeLooker

Just looked this rule up pertaining to live dealers at one of the popular online sportsbook/casino's:

Professional card counters are prohibited. If you are found to be a professional card counter playing in our Live Dealer, your account is subject to immediate closure and all winnings will be forfeited.


That's exactly the kind of BS to which I was referring. Why wouldn't you name this casino explicitly? No reason not to let the smart gamblers (i.e. WoV regulars) know what places to avoid if they want to play with an advantage.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
AcesAndEights
AcesAndEights
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May 19th, 2014 at 12:49:08 PM permalink
Quote: AxiomOfChoice

Make sure to keep your amateur status. And, withdraw often.


This made me crack up at work! Man, I have no worries at all at this casino then. I'm not a pro (I have a day job), so I should be able to spread with impunity! I'm going to wong in to any +2TC with a $1000 flat bet and wong out if it goes south. If they try to withhold my winnings, I'll just send them a copy of my tax return to prove my amateur status.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
Torghatten
Torghatten
Joined: Feb 3, 2012
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May 25th, 2014 at 10:53:48 AM permalink
wouldnt it be better to use a spreedsheet and WoO "effect of card removal" to get an even better EV?

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