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Gialmere
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July 28th, 2019 at 1:06:30 PM permalink
Story at CNBC although there are many others.

I see the IRS is starting to crackdown on bitcoin and other virtual currency accounts. The agency sent out 10,000 letters to digital currency holders who it thinks may have failed to pay their necessary taxes. Although it's sweet talking the move, it notes that criminal prosecution is on the table. The years 2013-2015 seem to be of particular interest. Here's a few pull quotes...

Quote:

“The IRS is expanding our efforts involving virtual currency, including increased use of data analytics.”

The list of names was obtained through “various ongoing IRS compliance efforts.”


How comforting.
Last edited by: Gialmere on Jul 28, 2019
Have you tried 22 tonight? I said 22.
AxelWolf
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July 28th, 2019 at 4:32:19 PM permalink
Quote: Gialmere

[Story at CNBC although there are many others.]

I see the IRS is starting to crackdown on bitcoin and other virtual currency accounts. The agency sent out 10,000 letters to digital currency holders who it thinks may have failed to pay their necessary taxes. Although it's sweet talking the move, it notes that criminal prosecution is on the table. The years 2013-2015 seem to be of particular interest. Here's a few pull quotes...


How comforting.

We’re sorry, the page you were looking for cannot be found.

You would think this would drive BTC down, however, people will probably see this as a sign the IRS considers it a real currency and it goes up for now.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Gialmere
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July 28th, 2019 at 4:38:22 PM permalink
My bad. Using double brackets messed up the url. Try again.
Have you tried 22 tonight? I said 22.
MaxPen
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July 29th, 2019 at 1:54:05 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: Gialmere

[Story at CNBC although there are many others.]

I see the IRS is starting to crackdown on bitcoin and other virtual currency accounts. The agency sent out 10,000 letters to digital currency holders who it thinks may have failed to pay their necessary taxes. Although it's sweet talking the move, it notes that criminal prosecution is on the table. The years 2013-2015 seem to be of particular interest. Here's a few pull quotes...


How comforting.

We’re sorry, the page you were looking for cannot be found.

You would think this would drive BTC down, however, people will probably see this as a sign the IRS considers it a real currency and it goes up for now.



No, just the IRS collecting capital gains taxes just like any other speculation/investment. Unfortunately, just like anything else you can't deduct if you lose unless your a professional trader.
AZDuffman
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July 29th, 2019 at 2:12:56 AM permalink
Quote: MaxPen


No, just the IRS collecting capital gains taxes just like any other speculation/investment. Unfortunately, just like anything else you can't deduct if you lose unless your a professional trader.



??

Losses in trading should easily be deductible, just that if you have no wins to go against it will be limited, last I heard to $4K per year. Keep good records.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
MaxPen
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July 29th, 2019 at 2:36:54 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

??

Losses in trading should easily be deductible, just that if you have no wins to go against it will be limited, last I heard to $4K per year. Keep good records.



Yes, the typical one sided arm of of the government. If you lose 50k you can only deduct 3k, unless your a professional. However, if you make even a dollar then by golly you better pay up. If the government is not willing to share in the risk then why should they get any reward.
AZDuffman
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July 29th, 2019 at 3:41:48 AM permalink
Quote: MaxPen

Yes, the typical one sided arm of of the government. If you lose 50k you can only deduct 3k, unless your a professional. However, if you make even a dollar then by golly you better pay up. If the government is not willing to share in the risk then why should they get any reward.



What do you mean by "professional?" I never saw any distinction in the tax code.

If you lose $50K you need $50K of investment income to deduct it against no matter who you are. Same as you cannot just scoop up a bunch of losing tickets from the sports book and claim a loss against ordinary income.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
EvenBob
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July 29th, 2019 at 2:19:04 PM permalink
3 weeks ago BC was at $12500. Today
it's $9500. Just as I predicted.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
DRich
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July 29th, 2019 at 2:45:15 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

3 weeks ago BC was at $12500. Today
it's $9500. Just as I predicted.



Do you predict it will be up or down in the next 3 weeks?
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
SOOPOO
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July 29th, 2019 at 2:49:04 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

3 weeks ago BC was at $12500. Today
it's $9500. Just as I predicted.



How much money did you make shorting it?
AxelWolf
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July 29th, 2019 at 3:09:24 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

How much money did you make shorting it?

We Have another Zen King Junior here. Why didn't he predict it would go from only pennies to almost 20,000?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
RS
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July 29th, 2019 at 3:48:09 PM permalink
Don’t dog on EvenBob, guys. He made a prediction and he was right! The reason he hasn’t made any money on his predictions is because he’s not greedy and it’s not about the money to him.
Boz
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July 29th, 2019 at 3:53:21 PM permalink
Not as up on BC as I probably should be, but what is all this about the IRS tracking it now?

Or is it a scare tactic?
AZDuffman
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July 29th, 2019 at 3:58:32 PM permalink
Quote: Boz

Not as up on BC as I probably should be, but what is all this about the IRS tracking it now?

Or is it a scare tactic?



Only have liability when it turns back to cash.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
AxelWolf
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July 29th, 2019 at 4:12:07 PM permalink
Quote: Boz

Not as up on BC as I probably should be, but what is all this about the IRS tracking it now?

Or is it a scare tactic?

it seems obvious to me that they're going to go after people who made a bunch of money trading/ investing in Bitcoins. Some people made many millions of dollars off of it. No doubt, there are some people who thought they were hiding it well without paying taxes only to come find out they weren't actually hiding it very well and now they're going to have to pay their taxes.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
GWAE
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July 29th, 2019 at 4:18:03 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Only have liability when it turns back to cash.



I believe that is incorrect.

Liability anytime it is moved, capital gains to make it worse. I had an article about it, let me see if I can find it.
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed. I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
EvenBob
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July 29th, 2019 at 4:47:21 PM permalink
Quote: GWAE

I believe that is incorrect.

Liability anytime it is moved, capital gains to make it worse. I had an article about it, let me see if I can find it.



All this tax talk is doing wonders for
BC sales. lol
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
AxelWolf
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July 29th, 2019 at 4:51:52 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

All this tax talk is doing wonders for
BC sales. lol

when exactly did this news come out? From the time I've heard the news Bitcoin really hasn't been up or down much.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
AZDuffman
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July 29th, 2019 at 5:04:36 PM permalink
Quote: GWAE

I believe that is incorrect.

Liability anytime it is moved, capital gains to make it worse. I had an article about it, let me see if I can find it.



It is like a stock, stocks can go up and down for decades, but you do not pay capital gains until you finally sell. Even dividend reinvestment you do not pay until you cash out.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
AZDuffman
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July 29th, 2019 at 5:05:44 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

when exactly did this news come out? From the time I've heard the news Bitcoin really hasn't been up or down much.



It was at $9100 when Wiz was selling for a friend. Went to $12,000. Now back to $9500.

I have just held and will keep doing so.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
GWAE
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July 29th, 2019 at 5:21:30 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

It is like a stock, stocks can go up and down for decades, but you do not pay capital gains until you finally sell. Even dividend reinvestment you do not pay until you cash out.



I guess if you sit on it then there is no tax implication, however people dont usually do that. They will transfer, sell, or use it. They may not get cash directly but if you were to put some in an online casino you techincally owe capital gains on the money you sent to them as it is the same as cashing out.

The IRS has made it mandatory to report bitcoin transactions of all kinds, no matter how small in value. Thus, every US taxpayer is required to keep a record of all buying, selling of, investing in, or using bitcoins to pay for goods or services (which the IRS considers bartering). Because bitcoins are being treated as assets, if you use bitcoins for simple transactions such as buying groceries at a supermarket you will incur a capital gains tax (either long-term or short-term depending on how long you have been holding the bitcoins). When it comes to bitcoins the following are different transactions that will lead to taxes:

Selling bitcoins, mined personally, to a third party.
Selling bitcoins, bought from someone, to a third party.
Using bitcoins, which one may have mined, to buy goods or services.
Using bitcoins, bought from someone, to buy goods or services.

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/040515/are-there-taxes-bitcoins.asp
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AZDuffman
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July 29th, 2019 at 5:34:31 PM permalink
Quote: GWAE

I guess if you sit on it then there is no tax implication, however people dont usually do that. They will transfer, sell, or use it. They may not get cash directly but if you were to put some in an online casino you techincally owe capital gains on the money you sent to them as it is the same as cashing out.



Yes, but it is about the same as if I buy a car from you for $5K. Do you report it?

Bitcoin can be exchanged for more anonymous coins if need be, It is why the governments fear it.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
GWAE
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July 29th, 2019 at 5:37:58 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Yes, but it is about the same as if I buy a car from you for $5K. Do you report it?

Bitcoin can be exchanged for more anonymous coins if need be, It is why the governments fear it.



I see your point, but I dont think there are capital gains on an item that depreciated like a car.
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed. I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
AZDuffman
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July 29th, 2019 at 5:47:36 PM permalink
Quote: GWAE

I see your point, but I dont think there are capital gains on an item that depreciated like a car.



You can substitute the example. Instead of placing a dime on the Steelers at Rivers you punch out two tickets for a nickel each and cash them at different times. Just saying money gets hidden all the time.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
Boz
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July 29th, 2019 at 5:52:46 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

You can substitute the example. Instead of placing a dime on the Steelers at Rivers you punch out two tickets for a nickel each and cash them at different times. Just saying money gets hidden all the time.



Don’t disagree how it happens in the cash world.

That said, I have no clue how much or little is traceable with BC.

Obviously I would pay every gain owed, but I’m not sure you aren’t opening yourself up to incorrect IRS calculations with BC. I deal with it with Credit Card transactions and Bank Transactions that they still can’t get right.

Zero faith in the IRS and they seldom admit they are wrong.
AZDuffman
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July 29th, 2019 at 5:58:52 PM permalink
Quote: Boz

Don’t disagree how it happens in the cash world.

That said, I have no clue how much or little is traceable with BC.

Obviously I would pay every gain owed, but I’m not sure you aren’t opening yourself up to incorrect IRS calculations with BC. I deal with it with Credit Card transactions and Bank Transactions that they still can’t get right.

Zero faith in the IRS and they seldom admit they are wrong.



How much or how little depends on who you ask. I have bought at one place and will cash out at one place, making it simple. Where it gets hard is if say I buy silver will the seller report the transaction? Then silver pops. I could sell it off slow or say it was my dad's collection.

Again, why they fear it.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
AxelWolf
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August 5th, 2019 at 12:35:32 AM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

3 weeks ago BC was at $12500. Today
it's $9500. Just as I predicted.

Did you predict it would get back up to $11,700?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
OnceDear
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August 5th, 2019 at 12:45:57 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Did you predict it would get back up to $11,700?

Evenbob can't be held accountable for predictions he didn't make.
$;o)
Psalm 25:16 Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted. Proverbs 18:2 A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
Helen
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August 9th, 2019 at 5:05:10 AM permalink
how long are in gambling?
ManFromBaccarat
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September 2nd, 2019 at 8:56:38 AM permalink
Quote: OnceDear


" PSYCHIC FAIR CANCELED DUE TO UNFORSEEN CIRCUMSTANCES "



lol < thats a rare lol
OnceDear
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September 21st, 2019 at 10:29:58 AM permalink
Are any established trusted members interested in selling me some ( a few $k ) Bitcoin at the prevailing rate, subject to mutually satisfactory transaction arrangements?
Psalm 25:16 Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted. Proverbs 18:2 A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
Dobrij
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September 21st, 2019 at 3:04:38 PM permalink
regulated currencies are tied to actually events, and crypto currency is a complete illusion, therefore, it is not predictable
OnceDear
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September 21st, 2019 at 3:19:32 PM permalink
Quote: Dobrij

regulated currencies are tied to actually events, and crypto currency is a complete illusion, therefore, it is not predictable

Not disagreeing, Dobrij.
I'm just looking to buy some.
Psalm 25:16 Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted. Proverbs 18:2 A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
AZDuffman
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September 21st, 2019 at 5:17:03 PM permalink
Quote: OnceDear

Not disagreeing, Dobrij.
I'm just looking to buy some.



Is there a reason you don't just want to use an exchange?
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
AxelWolf
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September 21st, 2019 at 6:01:11 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Is there a reason you don't just want to use an exchange?

Fees
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
gamerfreak
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September 21st, 2019 at 7:49:21 PM permalink
If it’s for investment and not to actually use the coins for gambling, drugs, etc..... try Robinhood. No fees.
AxelWolf
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September 22nd, 2019 at 12:30:46 AM permalink
Quote: gamerfreak

and not to actually use the coins for gambling, drugs, etc

What else is there?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Helen
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September 25th, 2019 at 1:58:23 AM permalink
not every exchange has high fees
ApellesPromptov
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September 25th, 2019 at 2:32:51 AM permalink
I actually think that btc is pretty good for gambling exactly. Near zero transaction costs and anonymity. No?
OnceDear
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September 25th, 2019 at 3:01:31 AM permalink
Quote: ApellesPromptov

I actually think that btc is pretty good for gambling exactly. Near zero transaction costs and anonymity. No?

Actually the anonymity has limits. Although within the blockchain, there is no associated personal info, every transaction is logged on the blockchain and free for everyone to analyse. A bit like writing on the back of a dollar bill, a wallet address, every time it changes hands. With a minor effort, for example, any casino that has transacted BTC with you can trace the forward and backward flow of those BTC. ( They already know your identity) They could, for example see if you had signed up with multiple accounts, or accounts with sister sites, if the addresses ever get associated in the blockchain. Zod only knows what the 'authorities' might do to forensically analyse transactions.
https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/7966/what-are-tainted-coins-exactly
Psalm 25:16 Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted. Proverbs 18:2 A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
BigDad
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September 26th, 2019 at 11:31:42 AM permalink
What exchange do you use? What fees are there?
OnceDear
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September 26th, 2019 at 1:59:54 PM permalink
Quote: BigDad

What exchange do you use? What fees are there?

I initially used Coinbase. They have now effectively locked me out for being a UK customer. Fees were not awful, check their website for details. Service was worse than dreadful.
Psalm 25:16 Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted. Proverbs 18:2 A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
BigDad
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October 1st, 2019 at 9:27:24 AM permalink
Quote: OnceDear

I initially used Coinbase. They have now effectively locked me out for being a UK customer. Fees were not awful, check their website for details. Service was worse than dreadful.



Yes, I heard a lot about coinbase. But I still do not test it. I am confused by a large number of dissatisfied customers..
OnceDear
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October 1st, 2019 at 10:21:04 AM permalink
Quote: BigDad

Yes, I heard a lot about coinbase. But I still do not test it. I am confused by a large number of dissatisfied customers..

They are certainly big and popular, but from a UK customer perspective, their customer service and attitude sucks.
They've just restarted dealing with us, so I'll try to use them a little. But It's no love story: Just expedient.
Psalm 25:16 Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted. Proverbs 18:2 A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
AxelWolf
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October 1st, 2019 at 10:26:58 AM permalink
Quote: BigDad

Yes, I heard a lot about coinbase. But I still do not test it. I am confused by a large number of dissatisfied customers..

I think they're okay for the average Joe just getting started.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
rxwine
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November 9th, 2019 at 8:09:35 PM permalink
Quote:

The first hint that Michael Terpin was about to have his digital life turned upside down—and lose a cryptocurrency windfall potentially valued at $24 million—seemed like an unremarkable annoyance. His mobile phone lost its signal.

But Mr. Terpin wasn’t driving between cell towers. He was working at a desk in his Las Vegas home. Way off in Norwich, Conn., someone had just taken over his phone number.

Within minutes, the hackers began trying to take over his Gmail accounts, using Google’s “Forgot password?” account reset feature. With access to his phone number and email, they were quickly able to steal millions in cryptocurrency from digital wallets Mr. Terpin believed to be secure.



https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/he-thought-his-phone-was-secure-then-he-lost-dollar24-million-to-hackers/ar-BBWtiRD?ocid=spartanntp
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valku13
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December 7th, 2019 at 10:08:17 AM permalink
Honestly, I think that the peak of bitcoins as a virtual currency has already passed. They will probably be very popular in the near future, but in a slightly modified form. I see no reason to buy bitcoins at the present moment. It was also very surprising for me that some casinos that I came across on the network allow you to use yitcoin as a currency to pay for the game.
ChumpChange
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December 7th, 2019 at 12:34:47 PM permalink
The IRS will be asking about all your Bitcoin investments. It's still property, but there's always the buy-in and the cash-out and the purchases in between. Looks like a nightmare scenario of record keeping for a currency that is so volatile.
AxelWolf
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December 7th, 2019 at 12:50:39 PM permalink
Quote: ChumpChange

The IRS will be asking about all your Bitcoin investments. It's still property, but there's always the buy-in and the cash-out and the purchases in between. Looks like a nightmare scenario of record keeping for a currency that is so volatile.

I don't know about the nightmare about record-keeping aspect however if you're playing online frequently you have to keep Bitcoin and it goes way down all your profits can be wiped out. And of course it can happen the opposite way and it could go up and you can make money. I know there are ways that you can park it in cash on the exchange and there are probably other ways as well, but you end up paying fees and it's an extra step.

It kind of sucks when deposit Bitcoin into a casino and suddenly the market shoots up while your money's in the casino and then when you cash out the market suddenly goes down. Obviously, I noticed that more often than I do when it happens the opposite way. In my mind it sure seems like I'm always getting getting f***** in that situation way more often then I'm on the good side of it.

But whatever, it is what it is.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
luckybit
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Joined: Dec 26, 2019
December 27th, 2019 at 2:22:40 AM permalink
Interesting to see that this thread was started back in 2013.

Maybe I missed it, but are there any updates from the buyers from back then about how their investment worked out for them now- after all these years? Any bitcoin millionaires here? :)
Bitcoin games & lottery.
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