TheWolf713
TheWolf713
Joined: Feb 12, 2013
  • Threads: 20
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December 23rd, 2014 at 2:52:05 PM permalink
You have thrown for countless hours at home on your craps table rig.... Perfecting your release, power, and ensuring you keep the dice on axis. You know what numbers your shot favors and you have built a bank roll so that you can come home a winner...

You drive to your local casino and you're ready!!!! You buy-into the game, comfortably positioned around your practice position distance and......... Hours past...... You barely have you shirt when you leave. What happened???

Where does the mind of the DI go when he steps away from the table?? And when you do make 'adjustments' how effective have they been on your visits afterwards?
"I'm a DO'er and you my friend, are a Don'ter" -Mark Walberg pain and Gain
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
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December 23rd, 2014 at 3:18:43 PM permalink
I think they do the same thing that zillions of card counters at BJ did when they counted perfectly in their New Jersey basement rec room and then find in Vegas its "different". The real world always smacks someone in the face: real money, real smoke, really loud and distracting music, really attractive women, really distracting dealers and floor persons. Suddenly you are close to the felt and that never happened back home.
Keyser
Keyser
Joined: Apr 16, 2010
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December 23rd, 2014 at 3:24:22 PM permalink
In the real world, there really are some dice mechanics. People like Leo Hernandez and Archie Karas that can exploit the slide and spin shot... and there are plenty of people that have documented their success. However, I don't believe for one minute that any of the so called dice school folks can influence the dice enough to matter.
sodawater
sodawater
Joined: May 14, 2012
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December 23rd, 2014 at 11:43:27 PM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

I think they do the same thing that zillions of card counters at BJ did when they counted perfectly in their New Jersey basement rec room and then find in Vegas its "different". The real world always smacks someone in the face: real money, real smoke, really loud and distracting music, really attractive women, really distracting dealers and floor persons. Suddenly you are close to the felt and that never happened back home.



All of that is baloney. Card counting is not that hard, whether it's in your rec room at home or the casino.

If an aspiring card counter finds himself being distracted or intimidated by the casino environment, he only need educate himself more about the roles of casino employees and casino procedure. It is important to be comfortable in the casino in order to become an advantage player. Learning about the jobs of the dealer, floorman, pit boss, waitresses, etc is the first step to that comfort.

Most card counters fail not because of lack of ability but because of lack of discipline and lack of interest. Once they see that they're basically doing the equivalent of boring, repetitive data-entry work for a not-very competitive salary (EV), they quit.

Or they become bored and make "side plays" not justified by the count.

None of this has to do with lack of skill.
sc15
sc15
Joined: Sep 28, 2014
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December 24th, 2014 at 12:26:01 AM permalink
Quote: sodawater

All of that is baloney. Card counting is not that hard, whether it's in your rec room at home or the casino.

If an aspiring card counter finds himself being distracted or intimidated by the casino environment, he only need educate himself more about the roles of casino employees and casino procedure. It is important to be comfortable in the casino in order to become an advantage player. Learning about the jobs of the dealer, floorman, pit boss, waitresses, etc is the first step to that comfort.

Most card counters fail not because of lack of ability but because of lack of discipline and lack of interest. Once they see that they're basically doing the equivalent of boring, repetitive data-entry work for a not-very competitive salary (EV), they quit.

Or they become bored and make "side plays" not justified by the count.

None of this has to do with lack of skill.



Professional AP play is all about what stakes you play and what % edge you have.

If you're playing low limits.. you're probably going to be playing/staying in crapholes and making less money than a burger flipper does.

If you're playing high limits and getting free suites and free steak dinners every night along with 6 figures / year in EV, it's a completely different story.

I know people who are like red/green chip counters.. they spread like 5 - 75 and it seems like one of the most miserable existences. They're basically working a job with no benefits, high variance, and getting paid less than someone who flips burgers at mcdonalds.

Sure, they rarely get backed off because their tiny bets never attract attention, and they get a free buffet once in a while, but I can't imagine trying to grind out a living like that.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
  • Threads: 139
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December 24th, 2014 at 6:19:55 AM permalink
With the exceptions of a few people especially guys that have a regular job.....

I've said it before, Anyone with a proper bankroll, discipline, stomach and skill to count cards on a regular basis. Will move on to other better valuable plays or travel for really juicy conditions. Sure they will also just plain count occasionally, but that becomes secondary. Hole carding seems to be the fist next step for many nowadays.

Once you start expanding beyond counting, the boredom goes away.

I don't now of many successful counters that just sit on their ass all day. If that's what you are doing all day, I'm thinking you doing something wrong.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is nothing new to most guys here but it might help someone new who's interested

The actual counting might be easy for you, but you're attention should be focused on more than just the cards. There's so much going on.
Where are the good dealers

Wheres the pit boss, does he notice me? Was that the same guy as last time?

Do I look like I'm a counter?

Is it time to tip?

Should I start a friendly conversation with the dealer? (present myself as a real person)

should I play rated?

what spread can I get away with?

Is it time to leave?

Should I add some cover play?

Is it shift change?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Greasyjohn
Greasyjohn
Joined: Dec 8, 2013
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December 24th, 2014 at 8:54:45 AM permalink
When I first saw the title of this thread I thought it was about the latitude a working girl might entertain when her DI's busy.
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
Joined: Oct 5, 2011
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December 24th, 2014 at 9:11:21 AM permalink
The three DIs I've seen shoot I am sure do well. I can't address all of the DI wannabees.
superrick
superrick
Joined: Jul 14, 2010
  • Threads: 28
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December 24th, 2014 at 9:12:36 AM permalink
Quote: TheWolf713

You have thrown for countless hours at home on your craps table rig.... Perfecting your release, power, and ensuring you keep the dice on axis. You know what numbers your shot favors and you have built a bank roll so that you can come home a winner...

You drive to your local casino and you're ready!!!! You buy-into the game, comfortably positioned around your practice position distance and......... Hours past...... You barely have you shirt when you leave. What happened???

Where does the mind of the DI go when he steps away from the table?? And when you do make 'adjustments' how effective have they been on your visits afterwards?


I can tell you exactly where it goes. They come to Vegas to take a class or to met up with some other so-called DI's they lose then they run home and do a trip report on a DI board that sells becoming a so-called DI. What happens next is just amazing. They write that they lost and all of the board members pile on to tell they that they are sorry to hear about their lost, but they will get them the next time.

Their great fiction writers now pat them on the back and tell them what they did wrong and if they bet this way or that way they could have made money. Their heroes the ones that sell their classes now tell them they need to take a refresher course, even after they just took one.

They will write about the one so-called DI that got on a good roll and how they should have made money on that roll, only if they didn't already blow their bank roll betting on the other so-called DI's they were with. Now comes the funny part if they took a class they may have paid a hook up fee to go to the tables with their heroes only to lose when their heroes were shooting.

Now days the class that is charging for hook-up fees is calling it the “After Glow” fee.

Then you have the other so-called DI's that write that they won when they actually lost, their big wins always come when no one is around, after everybody else went home. Back when I was working in the casinos I would see this happen way to much. It could have been after work that I stopped to play craps or just watch a game and would have one of my buddies tell me the name of the so-called DI that was losing his butt, only to read his trip report that said that he won big time, at the same casino at the same time he was playing, when I saw him losing!

Ask most players if they won or lost and you get the same old story, they won or they broke even.

The one thing that really sticks out about the so-called DI's is they have heroes that are selling what they are doing. Or are just pathological liars that write some of the best fiction you will ever read about becoming a DI. There is one that nobody has ever met that once was claiming to have an SRR of 28, that is always writing that he takes hundreds of thousands of dollars off the craps tables a year.

If you are a loser and need some one to pat you on your back after that big lost just joined one of the DI boards, where you will find like minded people that will make you feel better about losing!

Then they come back the next time after taking all the advice of heroes to only repeat the same cycle all over again, sure there will be times that they get lucky and they do win, but don't the so-called random rollers do the same thing. Their dice do not stay on axis as these on axis schools want everybody to believe. These schools have never produced one slow motion video of their dice doing so! But there are hundreds of videos that show their dice bouncing all over the place when they hit the tables.

Is there anybody you know in these videos?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2FYrndlrpc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0rAh1ug2Mk&list=UUUJo96xngJwaqh8rIk2whng

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzXc2PXS114&index=12&list=TLPhC1SU9dvTE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1FO4YsUA30

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqiptZZotMc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzXc2PXS114&index=12&list=TLPhC1SU9dvTE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k467uPlLn3A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzXc2PXS114&index=12&list=TLPhC1SU9dvTE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkU458iCDiY&list=UUZ0GZph2K4ebWI6FVaoaJdQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hheh7c6J77Y&index=34&list=UUZ0GZph2K4ebWI6FVaoaJdQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOOULZHKNo0&feature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6NaIs8y_hE&index=37&list=UUZ0GZph2K4ebWI6FVaoaJdQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jej4WNRGyR8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiZf3jbjie0&list=UUfDRf2L1rCEgYtGFlS_z9ag

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GS-R8XYUjhs&list=PL29EB7437F6533C12

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68pu1F0D_9g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3_wQN7MELc

This guy found 172 videos on throwing the dice or dice control and put them all in one spot for your viewing pleasure and he surely saved me a lot of work! Just page down on the right side to see all of the videos he found.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MrqyVrQWck&list=PL57YTXgE9UrKJJZsOGpdaFhWAEETRt-rU

Lets not forget the one guy that had the best set-up for dice control, Aaron Hightower who went the extra mile to try to prove that dice control either work or it didn't. I have to give him a high-five for all of the work he put into it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2QS26ppbc8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBJwLtAORa0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXSfu5QDDVA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cM3qDV9Lz3Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdTzwChYv0U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni-uMB17x4I
Note, all my post start with this is just my opinion...! You do good brada ..! superrick Winning comes from knowledge and skill when your betting and not reading fiction http://procraps4u2.myfanforum.org/index.php ...
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
Joined: Oct 5, 2011
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December 24th, 2014 at 9:40:18 AM permalink
Superrick I am surprised the administrators haven't cited you for spam.

There is a difference between true DIs and people who just set the dice and think they have a controlled throw.

Just knock it off already.

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