What fun is playing the Darkside?

for me, the fun for playing the Rightside is pressing the bets.

but w/Dark, you cant do that. Once a 7 comes, you win but all the bets are taken down. There's no riding the Hot Roll.

So what do you find fun in playing the Darkside?

The 7-out jackpot.

Fun?
If I walk away from the table with more money than I had when I started, it was fun.

Darkside? Once I'm past that Come Out roll, I'm the one betting on the number that is MOST likely to be rolled.

comes later

Quote: 100xOdds

So what do you find fun in playing the Darkside?

Coloring up fairly consistently. Sure beats losing your stack consistently.

The Darkside is the "right side" for consistent winning in Craps. At least that's what most craps players that I have met in the casino through the years have told me. I HATE playing the Don'ts which can explain my empty wallets on most craps sessions.

My one advice to Don't players. Don't touch the dice! The craps gods are very satirical and love to have Don't players go on long runs with the dice. One of my most consistent winning strategies through the years is to bet on the Pass Line whenever a Don't shooter is shooting the dice from the "Don't Pass Line". The most points I have ever made is 8 points....all shooting from the "Don'ts"!
I did place the Point number also so I did not complain :-)

Don't Pass Line "Strategies"

1) The best advice I have received about "Don't Pass Betting" is to Flat Bet. Bet the same amount against every shooter regardless of the point (4,5,6,8,9,10)

2) Do not let one "hot shooter" kill your bankroll. If a player makes two points in a row...don't bet again until he/she sevens out.

3) Craps is heavy on variance. Enjoy the ride when everybody 7's out all day. When the table gets "hot", leave!

4) Don't play on "choppy" tables...everybody loses!

I like to play the dark side when I am the only one at the table at the start

Quote: CrapsForever

2) Do not let one "hot shooter" kill your bankroll. If a player makes two points in a row...don't bet again until he/she sevens out.

Please help me understand. "Two points" seems arbitrary.

Why not three points? Why not "don't bet the dark side before three consecutive point-sevens?"

I just want to understand the mathematical advantage to such a strategy.

Quote: FleaStiff

Fun?
If I walk away from the table with more money than I had when I started, it was fun.

Darkside? Once I'm past that Come Out roll, I'm the one betting on the number that is MOST likely to be rolled.

And the problem is??
Sounds like a winner to me.

Quote: QuadDeuces

Please help me understand. "Two points" seems arbitrary.

Why not three points? Why not "don't bet the dark side before three consecutive point-sevens?"

I just want to understand the mathematical advantage to such a strategy.

There is no Mathematical formula to it; it is arbitrary. You have to decide when a "streak" begins and avoid getting burned by it. I think streaks start at 2 based on my craps experience. Some "Darkside" players will not bet against someone who hits a 7/11 on a Comeout roll.

When I see "Don't players" go bankrupt (Very rarely); it's due to stubbornness. Craps is "random" but most of the time there is only one "hot" shooter on a craps table if there is one at all. If you can avoid losing your entire bankroll to that "hot" shooter; you will do well. Everybody has their criteria of "hot" shooter.

Some people like a shooter who will hits multiple points; I prefer a "hot shooter" who repeats the same number over and over again. When I am "hot"; I hit 4's, 10's and hardways all day!

Playing the Don'ts properly takes a lot of patience. Can you stand there and watch a player hit 7 consecutive points without betting against him? In my opinion; the Casino's biggest strength is convincing us that "Craps is Random". Everybody is unique...people go on "runs". Avoid the "hot/lucky" shooter and make your money playing the Don'ts. I don't like playing the Don'ts because I LOVE the social aspect and comaraderie on a craps table among "right-side", Pass Line players.

I know a craps player in Florida who did not make a SINGLE point in 3 months of craps play (10+) sessions that I personally saw earlier this year. I decided to play the Don'ts against him (even though I HATE playing the Don'ts). The dark side players on the casino boat welcomed me to their side. He hit his first point and I "knew" right away things would be different. He had not hit a point in 10 sessions that I witnessed...now he hits a point...I am not betting against this guy! I switched to the Pass Line, Don't players kept on betting heavy against him and lost BIG when he went on a ridiculous run of points.

My advice to Don't Players;

1) Define your definition of "hot" shooters and avoid them. Don't lose your bankroll on one shooter.

2) Avoid getting killed on the Comeout Rolls. I have seen too many sessions where people have hit multiple 7's/11's on the Comeout rolls and destroyed players betting heavy on the Don't pass line.

3) If you notice a player hitting lots of 7's on the Comeout roll; lay all the #'s and get PAID; I'm working on adding this to my Craps "strategy". There is always a run of 4-5 consecutive 7's/11's on the Comeout roll; Laying all the #'s will get you paid! Also an 11 on the Comeout roll (Puck is off) does not affect your lay bets.

4) Playing the Don'ts is a marathon, not a sprint; make sure you have the patience and personality for it.

5) Do not hedge; that usually starts a bad precedent, then you might go crazy making too many hedge bets. Laying the 4's and 10's and hedging with the Hard 4 and Hard 10 is not a winning formula.

6) You are either a Pass Line Bettor or Don't Pass Line Bettor. Very few people know how to be both. Trying to flip-flop is a recipe for disaster most of the time!

7) Have a huge bankroll; playing the Don'ts takes a bankroll double the size of a Pass Line Bettor.

8) Avoid excessive celebrations. Craps is a social game. Playing the Don'ts makes you a target of some right side players.




In reference to Don't Pass Line #3, this is a game changer!

In reference to Don't Pass Line #5, I tried "laying the point" my last craps session especially against the 4 & 10 with the Hard 4 & Hard 10. I have never seen so many 3/1's and 6/4's in my life! I "layed" against the point 15 times (Documented) and did not win a single point. Either the player hit the point or hit lots of place #'s (getting me scared) so I picked up my "lay" bet. You already know what happens most of the time you pick up a "lay" bet; SEVEN!


In reference to Don't Pass Line #8, Personally I LOVE playing against Don't players who celebrate too much. Gives me extra motivation to make the point and "Take down the Don'ts"


*Please understand that these are only my opinions. I do not play the Don'ts on a regular basis so Don't players should have much better advice compared to me based on what they see on craps tables through the years.

For me the fun is knowing I am doing my own thing. Having some players look at me and once one even asked, "what is that bet, anyways?" Being able to say with confidence, "No, I am betting against the point, not against you, and nobody bets 'with the house' exept the house."

And getting all of this reaction over a .002% advantage to me!

I generally play "the dark side" when I want to be left alone.

Quote: 7craps

I say only play the right side when the shooter is rolling lots on point numbers.
Only play the don't when the shooter can't pass.

Please let me know when this is going to happen before the start of any given shooter! I'll take up playing craps full-time!

Quote: SanchoPanza

Coloring up fairly consistently. Sure beats losing your stack consistently.

I've seen plenty a dark side player leave the table down about 1000 on a hot roll. A problem with dark side playing is the bankroll required is MUCH higher, at least if you want to make money.

I'm a Luke Skywalker every day...

Quote: Tiltpoul

Please let me know when this is going to happen before the start of any given shooter! I'll take up playing craps full-time!...

Tiltpoul/All Don't Players,

Some Friendly Advice; Play the Don'ts AGAINST me when I am shooting from the Pass Line....

1) Lay the Point on the first roll after the Point is established.
2) Lay the Point after I throw consecutuve Horns.
3) Lay the Point after any of my "Craps Etiquette Rules" are broken.
4) When I call my bets "OFF", Lay Heavy against the Point.
5) If I am in a "Zen" like state and look completely at peace, take down your lay bets...I will destroy your Lay Bets!


From a WOV forum member to another, this can be a full-time job for a Don't Player. I am ready, willing and able to do a Real Live Casino experiment on this...

Winning all your bets on a seven. Being contrary.

I like CrapsForever's rules here. Basically, thats what I used to do also. Rule 3 follows Rule 2., but leave. NO, really, LEAVE.

Winning is fun.
I hate the fact that it causes people at the table to LEEEEAVE when it gets "cold" (whilst I'm winning)
But the way I look at it..
$10 flat + $30 lay (any number)
If they make two points, I lay off
Believe me, it happened the other night...cold table..guy walks up...I took two on the chin, swithed over to just 6 & 8 for $12 each...he went on a good roll and I won back about $50 of the $80 I lost (just from 6/8!)
After he 7'd out, I went back to darkside...table went back to 7-out-7-out-7-out...I was once again winning...Hell, my gf and I both were PSO! (good for us!)

Quote: TIMSPEED

Believe me, it happened the other night...cold table..guy walks up...I took two on the chin, swithed over to just 6 & 8 for $12 each...he went on a good roll and I won back about $50 of the $80 I lost (just from 6/8!)
After he 7'd out, I went back to darkside...table went back to 7-out-7-out-7-out...I was once again winning...Hell, my gf and I both were PSO! (good for us!)

I believe you and I have many session dice rolls charted to prove it.
of course, the sample data is just quite small and most would say I just made it up.

I will have to look into that just for fun, but I remember one year a few years ago, the best rolls over 20 in length and most point winners came out of "cold tables" after most players had a;ready left.
Most times I just made a $5 pass bet or switched to a $5 don't.

Sooner of later the long roll will happen. The math says so.
Not *every* shooter will 7out by the 6th roll, even on a cold table.
One needs to have some bankroll left to throw at the long hand when it does come around.

Quote: teddys

Winning all your bets on a seven. Being contrary.

I like to mix it up!
Come out roll. Lay all the numbers ($30), bet the pass and the seven.
I only had 20 seconds to make my bets. My fingers do not work that fast!
this is not the actual screen shot. I guess I can start to snap shots of my winning big bets.
I add that to my list.



I hit this one 3 times in a row last month playing the Shoot to Win Craps machine in Vegas.
I was not the shooter.
The 4th roll was a 3, so I cashed out and had dinner.

And I found out afterwards I could have made the 3way7 bet. All the hop bets are available at 30 and 15 to 1.
Damn. Hate it when I mess up!

Quote: guido111

And I found out afterwards I could have made the 3way7 bet. All the hop bets are available at 30 and 15 to 1.
Damn. Hate it when I mess up!

Yes, on the S-2-W machine, you just have to open the hoppers to get the 7's.
Curious...what happens when a shooter comes out on a 6, then immediately 7's out? (you have lost $15 on the 3-way-red, and $25 on the pass line; $40 total, in two rolls)
However, I will agree with you on the S-2-W...the 7 is VERRRRY streaky (it'll go 7-7-7-7 more than once!)
I think next weekend I'll give your system SORTA a shot (I'm going to lay the 4/10 for $25 each; which I think is MAX)

Quote: 100xOdds

There's no riding the Hot Roll.

So what do you find fun in playing the Darkside?

That's not true. It depends on how you bet the dark side.

I'll place the numbers except the point where my Don't is (actually, I take no action until it is a 4 or 10, sometimes 5 or 9), and everytime a place hits, press my don't come odds with that amount. Once I reach the max odds, I start laying that number.

You are totally riding a hot roll.

If you hit enough place bets that you feel you are well in the black, take down your lay and odds (to minimize your risk) and start over.

What I find funny is when a Darkside player keeps tipping a Pass Line Player to keep rolling the Dice and 7ing out.

I find that absolutely hilarious!

I'm still working up the courage to play the darkside. Two quick questions: 1) Any stratagies to avoid either notice or getting anyone upset when playing the darkside? 2) Is it true that if the point is a six or eight (or any number you don't like) your don't bet doesn't have to travel?

Quote: FrGamble

I'm still working up the courage to play the darkside. Two quick questions: 1) Any stratagies to avoid either notice or getting anyone upset when playing the darkside?

In our area, Padre, no one seems to care. Seems to be a thing with old-timers in AC and Vegas.

Of course, no need to celebrate when all others at the table just lost.

Quote: FrGamble

2) Is it true that if the point is a six or eight (or any number you don't like) your don't bet doesn't have to travel?

Once a point is established you can pick up your Don't bet, move it to pass or DC. Bad move though. At the very most, you might decline to lay full odds with 6 or 8.

If playing the DC, you might be asked "do you want the action?" meaning the casino is prompting you to pick it up. DC bets are handled by the dealer only. Again, perhaps avoiding full odds is all you would want to consider. It always is a 6 or 8 issue only unless I am very much mistaken.

If a player calls out No Action the dealer will leave the DC bet in the DC area. It is of course NOT in the player's advantage to do this, it is simply that many Don't players feel they will get more bang for their buck if the point is a 4 or 10 than if it is a 6 or an 8. However, once past that darned initial 7, every point number is in the don't player's favor.

Sorry for another quick question about the darkside. Are your remaining Don't Come bets always on during a new come out roll?

Quote: FrGamble

I'm still working up the courage to play the darkside. Two quick questions: 1) Any stratagies to avoid either notice or getting anyone upset when playing the darkside?

I think in most casinos it's not much of an issue. I played a while at MSS, with Loach as per a prior promise, during WoVCon 1.5, and the only person who told me something about it was Loach :) He said "Nareed, we don't celebrate when the 7 hits," or words to that effect.

Or you can try one of the growing number of electronic craps machines, or Rapid Craps (exclusively at Bill's). The latter has a new display screen, which among other things shows the virtual layout complete with all the bets. But overall people don't pay much attention to it. So just don't applaud or whoop when the seven out hits, and you'll be fine.

I should warn you, though, for what little it's worth, that on the last trip very one of my sessions at Bill's RC was a winner, and all included long(ish) rolls :P

Quote: FrGamble

Sorry for another quick question about the darkside. Are your remaining Don't Come bets always on during a new come out roll?

Yes. But since once the bet is up there, the odds are in your favor, you can take them down at any time. You could probably ask the dealer to turn them "off" for come-out rolls, but I've never seen a darksider do this. You've got the edge, baby!

Quote: AcesAndEights

You've got the edge, baby!

On the line, you've got the edge with it paying 1:1 on an event with [now] better than 50-50 chances.

On the darkside odds, they don't pay 1:1.

But I agree it would be weird to ask for them to be off. It would be as if you were not wanting the 7 rolled, and of course you do.

Quote: odiousgambit

On the line, you've got the edge with it paying 1:1 on an event with [now] better than 50-50 chances.

On the darkside odds, they don't pay 1:1.

But I agree it would be weird to ask for them to be off. It would be as if you were not wanting the 7 rolled, and of course you do.

Sure, the odds are zero edge no matter which way you play. But on the combined bet you have the edge at that point.

Quote: odiousgambit

Of course, no need to celebrate when all others at the table just lost

That, to me, is the crux of it.

Every craps player is playing a negative expectation game. It's worth .09% to me to have fun doing it. (Reference https://wizardofodds.com/games/craps/ House edge taking full 5X odds Pass line: .00326 Dark Side: .00227

Again, it would be wonderful to be at a table full of dont's. Maybe that should be a wovcon thing. It'd be interesting to see the pit reaction to a table full of don'ts playing quarters with full odds.

Quote: QuadDeuces

a table full of dont's.

It would be really cool. If ever done, we should agree that the dice pass all the way around back to who rolled the 7-out [should that be re-named at Don'ts table?]

The Green Eye Shade boys look at only two things: Bodies in the Door and The Action. Green Eye Shade types don't care if the action is on Red or Green, Do or Don't. They want action. Benny Binion always took the wind out of someone's sails with his "Your Limit Is The Size Of Your Next Bet" phrase. All he wanted was action. And he was willing to book it at all times...but he watched his dealers at all times too and treated the very well. With "From the Don't Hoping They Won't" coming from the stickman, some players have a reaction but that is a relatively new thing. It used to be perfectly proper and never caused a stir of resentment or abrupt departures. Behavior patterns change. Originally in craps there was no Dont Side. Originally, most bets made were side action taken amongst the players. In Bank Craps, its all the house's game and so all the house wants is Action. Trends? Heck, if its going to make them money, the felt will be printed with the Dont Boxes getting twice as large. As it is, one dealer at Terrible took a razor blade and scraped off the text of "Dont Come" just leaving the blank box. The Dealers may be annoyed with it sometimes, but the Green Eye Shade types just want Action!

Quote: QuadDeuces

Again, it would be wonderful to be at a table full of dont's. Maybe that should be a wovcon thing. It'd be interesting to see the pit reaction to a table full of don'ts playing quarters with full odds.

I don't know if you can even make it a WoVCon thing. I won't name names, but I found some of our esteemed memebrs are inherently incapable of betting the don't. For that matter, I'm so affected with betting even $10 on the pass or don't, much less quarters.

Quote: QuadDeuces

Again, it would be wonderful to be at a table full of dont's. Maybe that should be a wovcon thing. It'd be interesting to see the pit reaction to a table full of don'ts playing quarters with full odds.

I don't know if you can even make it a WoVCon thing. I won't name names, but I found some of our esteemed memebrs are inherently incapable of betting the don't. For that matter, I'm so affected with betting even $10 on the pass or don't, much less quarters.

I can play quarters but it would mean not taking full odds. Edit: I think this means you would see my quarters go on the free odds instead of the line.

If what you say is true about WoV-ers, one would think it is all about not going "against the table"... if so, the odd man out will be the right bettor at this table!

Quote: Nareed

I won't name names, but I found some of our esteemed members are inherently incapable of betting the don't.

You can name my name on that list. I CAN and HAVE bet the Don'ts in the past, but I like winning, and pressing odds bets up on the Come is a lot more fun than hoping a 7 rolls first.

I had a dream roll at Horseshoe Hammond the other day. A guy was rolling numbers with all the come bets up, especially 6 and 8. I probably had 200 up when he 7d out, and I was up over 260 dollars. Betting the Don'ts I would have had my a$$ handed to me and my money handed to the casino.

Quote: odiousgambit

I can play quarters but it would mean not taking full odds. Edit: I think this means you would see my quarters go on the free odds instead of the line.

Typically I'll bet single odds on 4,10, single or double odds on 5,9 and double or triple odds on 6,8. Typically, I say, not always. When 4 Queens had the craps table at $3 minimum, I went 5X on 6,8 always, and higher on other numbers as well.

I'm thinking I should change my bet patterns, but I'm wary about betting "too much money." I could easily make a $5 line bet and back it with full 3,4,5X odds, or even a $5 bet backed with $20 at tables that allow this. But then I wouldn't want to make come bets or place the 6 and 8. And I just don't ahve as much fun when making a single bet on craps at once.

Good thing I see gambling as an expense :)

Quote:

If what you say is true about WoV-ers, one would think it is all about not going "against the table"... if so, the odd man out will be the right bettor at this table!

That woudl be fine by me. I know that the result won't be affected by who bets on which side. And I do expect assiduous WoV participants to share in this atittude.

Quote: Tiltpoul

You can name my name on that list.

Thanks. It isn't a matter of confidentiality, but rather that it feels wrong to discuss other peoples' habits unless they bring them up.

Quote:

I had a dream roll at Horseshoe Hammond the other day. A guy was rolling numbers with all the come bets up, especially 6 and 8. I probably had 200 up when he 7d out, and I was up over 260 dollars. Betting the Don'ts I would have had my a$$ handed to me and my money handed to the casino.

I've had good rolls, too. I know that just ebcasue 7 si the more likely number, it doens't mean all or most points will seven out. But surely you'll recall the bloodbath we took at WoVCon ][.5? Had we all been playing the don't, we'd have bloodbathed the casino instead ;)

True story. Near the end of my bankroll at a casino recently, I was about to switch to the don't. but these guys next to me started talking, loudly, about how they hated to see players bet on the don't. I decided to avoid potential verbal abuse. of course I lost the rest of my, by then, meager bankroll at that cold table. but I had the satisfaction of seeing the loudmouths lose twice when they placed every number and all the hardways: come out easy 4, seven out, sweep the table; come out five, seven out.

That worked better than any argument I might ahve had agaisnt them...

When I play the pass line, I'll play $5 with 3/4/5
When I play the DP line, I'll just play $25 straight with a $5 Horn High-Yo (get a winner on aces, and a push on the 11). I never lay odds, because I hate paying more to win less...

Quote: Tiltpoul

I had a dream roll at Horseshoe Hammond the other day. A guy was rolling numbers with all the come bets up, especially 6 and 8. I probably had 200 up when he 7d out, and I was up over 260 dollars. Betting the Don'ts I would have had my a$$ handed to me and my money handed to the casino.

Having $200 on the layout and winning $260 is a dream roll to you?...Damn, no wonder I get stuck badly at the crap table..I'm playing WAAY too big!

Quote: TIMSPEED

Having $200 on the layout and winning $260 is a dream roll to you?...Damn, no wonder I get stuck badly at the crap table..I'm playing WAAY too big!

LOL! I was thinking the same thing...

Quote: TIMSPEED

Having $200 on the layout and winning $260 is a dream roll to you?...Damn, no wonder I get stuck badly at the crap table..I'm playing WAAY too big!

I think Tiltpoul meant on the last throw of the dice he had $200 on the layout, but even after losing that he was up $260 for the roll.

That tracks close to my own play on long rolls. I start with a pass line and odds, and I add 1 come bet w/odds and palce the 6, 8. Thena s the roll goes on and on, I will begin, late, to rpess 6,8 and do more come bets. so when the shooter inevitably sevens out, I have more money on the layout than I'm used to, but I'm up for the session thus far.

The last time I played Rapid Craps, the shooter went on one such long(ish) roll. I'd been down about $20 from my $150 buy-in ($3 table, after all). By the end of the roll I think I had about $70-80 on the layout, but I was up $168 from the buy-in, meaning I had $318 on the virtual rails. So I cashed out, tipped the dealers $3 (after having tipped them more during the session), and tipped the shooter $5.

Quote: Nareed

I think Tiltpoul meant on the last throw of the dice he had $200 on the layout, but even after losing that he was up $260 for the roll.
That tracks close to my own play on long rolls. I start with a pass line and odds, and I add 1 come bet w/odds and palce the 6, 8. Thena s the roll goes on and on, I will begin, late, to rpess 6,8 and do more come bets. so when the shooter inevitably sevens out, I have more money on the layout than I'm used to, but I'm up for the session thus far.

As I said..I must be playing WAAY too big..
$25 on the passline
$36 6/8 ($18 on each)
$20 5 or 9 (and quickly press to $30 buy)
$30 4 or 10 (and quickly go to BOTH for $30)
I can have $100 on the layout FAST, and go to $200 is quick...

I hesitated to do this since I have posted it before, but I will repeat for this thread what I do and do not like about Dark side.

On the Darkside I like:

*that a player is less prone to demoralizing losing streaks

*how easy it is with 3x4x5x knowing what to put up for odds

*how the free odds are active bets all the time without having to say anything about keeping them on during the come-out

*I prefer having multiple DC bets to multiple Come bets up, for those times I'm going for broke

but I don't like

*giving up the dice as the shooter after a 7-out.

*switching back and forth trying to guess which way to go [I have vowed to stop this!!]

*missing out on the fun playing it dark when a shooter makes several hands, and if I was ever there for those rare times when it is awesome... not just about the money but the fun too

*feeling a rookie dealer has to be watched carefully for errors [perhaps this last is misplaced]

Quote: TIMSPEED

As I said..I must be playing WAAY too big..
$25 on the passline

Oh, well, in a previous post you said $5 on the passline... Come to think of it, I didn't notice what you were playing at MSS. What with the scene with the drinks and all :)

Actually, I know I play waaaaay too small. But that's fine by me.

I think any player can justify playing either side and I hold nothing against them for doing so when I am shooting. I'm sure most forum members here have played blackjack on the strip when there are much better games downtown, but we aren't criticizing them for giving up EV. Play the way you like to play and best of luck to all!

Quote: odiousgambit

*that a player is less prone to demoralizing losing streaks

"Less" being the keyword here. One time playing the don't I shot three 11s in a row in the come out <sigh>. Let me tell you, that can be quite demoralizing. then i made the point...

Quote:

*switching back and forth trying to guess which way to go [I have vowed to stop this!!]

So do I. the alst few times I switched, to the don't, based ona cold table, several points were made in quick succession... That can be demoralizing as well.

Quote: TIMSPEED

Having $200 on the layout and winning $260 is a dream roll to you?...Damn, no wonder I get stuck badly at the crap table..I'm playing WAAY too big!

I should clarify... I buy-in for 200, with the intent of losing 100. I play 5 on the pass line, with 10 odds on the 5,6,8,9 and 5 on the 4,10. Same with the come bets. I don't start pressing until I'm into positive territory on my bets. IF I get my come bets all up with those odds, that's about 80 on the table. When he 7d out, I had 50 on both the 6,8 (with nickel pressure until I got up to 40), 20 on the 5,9 and I think 10 on the 4,10. So yeah it was about 200.

The dream roll part came from the fact that he was rolling numbers or 11s, not 2,3,12s or points. I have also won more on other rolls, and most of the table barely broke even... but the way I was playing I was capitalizing.

Quote: FrGamble

1) Any stratagies to avoid either notice or getting anyone upset when playing the darkside?

Lay your bets.

Most - and I mean most will have no clue what your bet is or what it means so you are betting against them and they don't know it. They just looked puzzled when money comes your way, but still don't get it.

I don't think I have yet played where I don't get a question or two about my lay bets....

That is a much more clandestine way of betting the dark side - then doing the DP/DC line.

Quote: slackyhacky

Lay your bets.

Most - and I mean most will have no clue what your bet is or what it means so you are betting against them and they don't know it. They just looked puzzled when money comes your way, but still don't get it.

I don't think I have yet played where I don't get a question or two about my lay bets....

That is a much more clandestine way of betting the dark side - then doing the DP/DC line.

Oh, and you can Lay your bets, and still do come or pass line bets every once in a while if you feel like it - for example, when the dice comes your way.