Minimum bankroll...
February 3rd, 2012 at 3:25:31 PM
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Hello all!
I was wonderiing if the more experienced craps players on this forum could lend me their advice? I am heading to Vegas in a couple of weeks, and plan on playing craps only. I always play with a minimum pass line bet (never the dark side) combined with maximum free odds. I hardly ever make a place bet (very rarely), and I dont use come bets (simply a bankroll issue). So basically it is just a single minimum pass line bet with maximum odds until either the point is rolled or the shooter 7's out. Then the I bet the same for the next roll and so on.
Can I get some input as to what my minimum bankroll should be to handle the potential "swings" if...
...I am playing at a $3 minimum table with 10x odds.
...I am playing at a $5 minimum table with 3x,4x,5x odds.
...I am playing at a $5 minimum table with 20x odds (sure wish MSS downtown offered $3 minimum craps with 20X odds instead of the $5 minimum. Do they ever offer $3? Weekday mornings on occasion perhaps?).
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks!
I was wonderiing if the more experienced craps players on this forum could lend me their advice? I am heading to Vegas in a couple of weeks, and plan on playing craps only. I always play with a minimum pass line bet (never the dark side) combined with maximum free odds. I hardly ever make a place bet (very rarely), and I dont use come bets (simply a bankroll issue). So basically it is just a single minimum pass line bet with maximum odds until either the point is rolled or the shooter 7's out. Then the I bet the same for the next roll and so on.
Can I get some input as to what my minimum bankroll should be to handle the potential "swings" if...
...I am playing at a $3 minimum table with 10x odds.
...I am playing at a $5 minimum table with 3x,4x,5x odds.
...I am playing at a $5 minimum table with 20x odds (sure wish MSS downtown offered $3 minimum craps with 20X odds instead of the $5 minimum. Do they ever offer $3? Weekday mornings on occasion perhaps?).
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks!
February 3rd, 2012 at 4:10:41 PM
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Its my understanding to bring to the table 7 to 10 times the amount you are betting. So a $5 table with 3-4-5x odds pass line w/ odds only ave bet $25.00 so $175 to $250. Also keep in mind that the $5 table could be to crowded to play or not available at all so bring enough for a $10 table. Just my 2 cents.
Fortune favors the bold
February 3rd, 2012 at 4:43:45 PM
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$5 with 5x, you are potentially betting $30 each come out. $300 minimum. $500 would help you handle some bad variance.
February 3rd, 2012 at 5:12:44 PM
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Your session money should be 10x your initial bet. If you lose 50% of your buy in, leave that table. If you win 20-30% of your buy in, pocket your buy in and 50% of your winnings, then play with the other 50% of your winnings. Every $50, pocket 1/2 and play with the excess. Simple advice to leave a winner or keep losses to a minimum.
Tom
Tom
February 3rd, 2012 at 6:00:34 PM
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Quote: tconley19Your session money should be 10x your initial bet. If you lose 50% of your buy in, leave that table. If you win 20-30% of your buy in, pocket your buy in and 50% of your winnings, then play with the other 50% of your winnings. Every $50, pocket 1/2 and play with the excess. Simple advice to leave a winner or keep losses to a minimum.
Tom
I don't get it. Why buy in for 10x if you're going to leave the table after losing 5x? Why not just buy in for 5x and leave if you lose all your chips?
February 3rd, 2012 at 6:36:14 PM
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Maybe so that you look less like a tool? IDK.
Resist ANFO Boston PRISM Stormfront IRA Freedom CIA Obama
February 4th, 2012 at 1:44:48 AM
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Basic money management 101....
If you want to play smart, you need to leave a particular table after 3 consecutive losses, or up to 50% of your buy in. It can be 40% or 30% or whatever your loss trigger(comfort level) is to leave that session. The same goes if you are winning. Only continue to play if you've reached a predetermined goal (win 20-30%), then play with 1/2 of your winnings, rat hole (pocket) the rest. If you feel that you're going to play underfunded with (scared money) and expect to lose all of your chips, why play at all?
You should always leave a table with at least half of your buy in so you don't feel like a total loser (I'm not being offensive here)......You should also have enough bankroll to play a predetermined amount of sessions. If you're playing 3 sessions, have enough bankroll for each individual session. Don't use money from 1 session to fund another one (unless you want to lose it all)
Craps is a negative expectation game with a small house edge on certain bets. Knowledge of how to bet, and when to leave the table (winning or losing) is a must. The longer you play, the house edge will eat at your winnings.
Another good indicator when to leave a table and find another game is a choppy table. If you find yourself winning a few hands, and losing a few on a continuous basis, find another table. You won't keep any profit on that table.
If you're going to play craps for the "fun" of it, then by all means buy in underfunded and expect to give it to the casino.
Just my opinion
Tom
If you want to play smart, you need to leave a particular table after 3 consecutive losses, or up to 50% of your buy in. It can be 40% or 30% or whatever your loss trigger(comfort level) is to leave that session. The same goes if you are winning. Only continue to play if you've reached a predetermined goal (win 20-30%), then play with 1/2 of your winnings, rat hole (pocket) the rest. If you feel that you're going to play underfunded with (scared money) and expect to lose all of your chips, why play at all?
You should always leave a table with at least half of your buy in so you don't feel like a total loser (I'm not being offensive here)......You should also have enough bankroll to play a predetermined amount of sessions. If you're playing 3 sessions, have enough bankroll for each individual session. Don't use money from 1 session to fund another one (unless you want to lose it all)
Craps is a negative expectation game with a small house edge on certain bets. Knowledge of how to bet, and when to leave the table (winning or losing) is a must. The longer you play, the house edge will eat at your winnings.
Another good indicator when to leave a table and find another game is a choppy table. If you find yourself winning a few hands, and losing a few on a continuous basis, find another table. You won't keep any profit on that table.
If you're going to play craps for the "fun" of it, then by all means buy in underfunded and expect to give it to the casino.
Just my opinion
Tom
February 4th, 2012 at 2:12:48 AM
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I have done both--$400 buy-in with a $200 "loss limit" and just a straight $200 buy-in with the "felt" as the loss limit. I've won and lost both ways but I just kind of like the larger buy-in better than the smaller one. I've got enough discipline to stop, so that is not an issue, and I just don't like leaving with "nothing" even though it is really the same amount at risk both ways.
I don't have a "win" limit at all--I do move the "floor" up as we go--if I am up to $500, the floor becomes $400 and on up. While it is nice to stop with a 25% profit sometimes, it is also fun to hit a good roll at that point and play it out. I get a bit more aggressive in pressing as the chips add up and it usually turns out pretty well--a win is locked in, and now I am shooting for a big win. I may not be the most aggressive at the table at that point but I am far from the least aggressive.
I don't have a "win" limit at all--I do move the "floor" up as we go--if I am up to $500, the floor becomes $400 and on up. While it is nice to stop with a 25% profit sometimes, it is also fun to hit a good roll at that point and play it out. I get a bit more aggressive in pressing as the chips add up and it usually turns out pretty well--a win is locked in, and now I am shooting for a big win. I may not be the most aggressive at the table at that point but I am far from the least aggressive.
February 4th, 2012 at 2:17:31 AM
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Quote:You should always leave a table with at least half of your buy in so you don't feel like a total loser
I pretty much subscribe to this too. And to have a bankroll that is 20x your approximate average bet, in any case certainly no less than 10x plus a cushion so you leave with something if the luck is bad.
For pass line plus odds:
...I am playing at a $3 minimum table with 10x odds. >>>> $600
...I am playing at a $5 minimum table with 3x,4x,5x odds.>>> $500 [average bet of $25 being an estimate]
...I am playing at a $5 minimum table with 20x odds >>>> $2100 !
My last outing was a $10 table with 3x4x5x and my bankroll of $1000 seemed sufficient, but after a losing session I broke my own rule with another session and regretted it. It is as if the dice smell blood when your bankroll is insufficient!
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
February 4th, 2012 at 2:26:20 AM
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To answer your question directly w/o my 2 cents worth ( I'm not a pass line bettor)
On a $5 table with 3-4-5x odds, your bankroll should be $300 for that session.
$5 pass line bet plus $25 odds(5x) on the 6&8 = $30
$5 pass line bet plus $20 odds(4x) on the 5&9 = $25
$5 pass line bet plus $15 odds(3x) on the 4&10 = $20
your buy in should be 10x the most expensive bet you will make - $30 (6 or 8)
adjust your buy in if you feel you need to play a game with higher odds bets (foolish) unless pass line bets are consistently winning.
I believe Casino Royale on the strip still offers a $3 table. The tables there are very "bouncy" and good for don't bettors. Also there should be some $3 tables downtown (Fremont Street)
Just my opinion
Tom
On a $5 table with 3-4-5x odds, your bankroll should be $300 for that session.
$5 pass line bet plus $25 odds(5x) on the 6&8 = $30
$5 pass line bet plus $20 odds(4x) on the 5&9 = $25
$5 pass line bet plus $15 odds(3x) on the 4&10 = $20
your buy in should be 10x the most expensive bet you will make - $30 (6 or 8)
adjust your buy in if you feel you need to play a game with higher odds bets (foolish) unless pass line bets are consistently winning.
I believe Casino Royale on the strip still offers a $3 table. The tables there are very "bouncy" and good for don't bettors. Also there should be some $3 tables downtown (Fremont Street)
Just my opinion
Tom
February 4th, 2012 at 7:11:56 AM
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Hi everyone,
Thanks very much for your input!
Tom...why did you say that playing a game with a higher odds bets be foolish? If my bankroll can handle it, wouldn't the "best" table to play at (for a pass line bettor who bets as I do as mentioned above) be the one with the lowest minimum and highest odds (20X for example)?
So in your opinion, if I were to play at Casino Royale on their $3 minimum table with 20X odds (this was in fact where I was going to play most likely), you suggest playing the dark side due to the bouncy tables there? My plan was to play the light side and be betting the max (so $63) with a bankroll of $1000, but I am interested in hearing more of your experiences at Casino Royale. Maybe I should be playing the dark side?
Thanks!
Thanks very much for your input!
Tom...why did you say that playing a game with a higher odds bets be foolish? If my bankroll can handle it, wouldn't the "best" table to play at (for a pass line bettor who bets as I do as mentioned above) be the one with the lowest minimum and highest odds (20X for example)?
So in your opinion, if I were to play at Casino Royale on their $3 minimum table with 20X odds (this was in fact where I was going to play most likely), you suggest playing the dark side due to the bouncy tables there? My plan was to play the light side and be betting the max (so $63) with a bankroll of $1000, but I am interested in hearing more of your experiences at Casino Royale. Maybe I should be playing the dark side?
Thanks!
February 4th, 2012 at 12:56:30 PM
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eastcoastguy,
I'll start this reply "In my opinion"
I don't like contract bets period! granted you could always take your odds bets down after a few rolls and no hits.
I don't bet pass line unless I'm shooting and I never take odds. In my opinion, pass line with odds is a way for the casino to get you to bet more . When I bet pass line, I also bet the "don't" pass and try and go up on at least 1 or 2 don't comes hoping to seven out quickly. I don't seem to have much difficulty with that. I'm not a DI (don't practice enough), but do set the dice for an all sevens showing.
When I do bet right, I'll place the inside numbers at an amount that I can regress after 1 hit. After 2 hits I'm down.
My advice to you would be to watch the table(s) for a few shooters to see what numbers are hitting, and if you would have won on those shooters or not. If shooters are throwing quick point seven outs, beware. Listen to the table for "cheering" or the opposite. Look at the chip racks to see if they are filling up or if they look empty. Look at the type of bets on the table. Are they pass line bets,place bets, don't pass or don't come. These observations will give you an idea of what to bet or not.
As far as Casino Royale, practically every shooter that was on the table with me couldn't keep the dice on the table (including me 1 time). There were many quick seven outs due to "extra" cushioning under the felt. I believe it caused the dice to tumble more and make them prone to seven outs (beware).
I'll start this reply "In my opinion"
I don't like contract bets period! granted you could always take your odds bets down after a few rolls and no hits.
I don't bet pass line unless I'm shooting and I never take odds. In my opinion, pass line with odds is a way for the casino to get you to bet more . When I bet pass line, I also bet the "don't" pass and try and go up on at least 1 or 2 don't comes hoping to seven out quickly. I don't seem to have much difficulty with that. I'm not a DI (don't practice enough), but do set the dice for an all sevens showing.
When I do bet right, I'll place the inside numbers at an amount that I can regress after 1 hit. After 2 hits I'm down.
My advice to you would be to watch the table(s) for a few shooters to see what numbers are hitting, and if you would have won on those shooters or not. If shooters are throwing quick point seven outs, beware. Listen to the table for "cheering" or the opposite. Look at the chip racks to see if they are filling up or if they look empty. Look at the type of bets on the table. Are they pass line bets,place bets, don't pass or don't come. These observations will give you an idea of what to bet or not.
As far as Casino Royale, practically every shooter that was on the table with me couldn't keep the dice on the table (including me 1 time). There were many quick seven outs due to "extra" cushioning under the felt. I believe it caused the dice to tumble more and make them prone to seven outs (beware).
February 4th, 2012 at 1:24:49 PM
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Don't forget to have someone else hold the bail money. In case Dan Lubin has you arrested for dice setting..
February 4th, 2012 at 2:52:46 PM
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Re: Casino Royale-
I just returned from a Vegas trip. I played craps at Casino Royale. My plan was to bet $3 on the pass line and back it with $30 odds. Within minutes the dealers hassled me for tips. After 10 minutes and no tips I was paid wrong. When I pointed this out, another "tip" reference was made. I figured it was time for me to leave.
For what it's worth; I used a session bankroll of $300 ($3/$30).
I just returned from a Vegas trip. I played craps at Casino Royale. My plan was to bet $3 on the pass line and back it with $30 odds. Within minutes the dealers hassled me for tips. After 10 minutes and no tips I was paid wrong. When I pointed this out, another "tip" reference was made. I figured it was time for me to leave.
For what it's worth; I used a session bankroll of $300 ($3/$30).
"I am a man devoured by the passion for gambling." --Dostoevsky, 1871
February 4th, 2012 at 2:58:46 PM
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If "extra cushioning" can cause more tumble, and more frequent 7's; then it must be easy to avoid rolling a 7 on a hard surface?
I think not....
I think not....
"I am a man devoured by the passion for gambling." --Dostoevsky, 1871
February 4th, 2012 at 5:46:12 PM
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also makes you wonder why they offer 100x odds, unless they know something about their tables!
February 4th, 2012 at 6:19:49 PM
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Tips should be given more frequently when you are winning ,and not to rude dealers at the table. Time to find another place to play. A $2 two way hard 6 or 8 every fourth or fifth shooter goes a long way with the dealers. Again, only if they are helpful and not hating their jobs.
February 4th, 2012 at 6:45:12 PM
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apparently extra bounciness is bad for those dice setting professionals like tconley. Bouncy = 7 outs. It's like when someone takes the dealer's bust card in blackjack or after 10 reds there just HAS to be a black fall in roulette. Just common knowledge :P
IMO the 100x odds is more of a gimmick. I've been to CR quite a few times and I have never seen any craps players with a $5 pass and $500 odds bet.
IMO the 100x odds is more of a gimmick. I've been to CR quite a few times and I have never seen any craps players with a $5 pass and $500 odds bet.
February 4th, 2012 at 7:28:18 PM
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I tend to agree that the 100x odds are a gimmick to make you lose your money faster. Sure they're free odds, but just like the double up on Video Poker, if you keep pressing sooner or later your luck is going to run out and free odds don't amount to anything if you don't have money.
I couldn't count the number of times I've seen $500 be gone in 15 minutes at a "cold" 20x odds table.
I couldn't count the number of times I've seen $500 be gone in 15 minutes at a "cold" 20x odds table.
Hotty Toddy!!!
February 5th, 2012 at 3:33:15 AM
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eastcoastguy,
Don't change the way you are betting unless you are knowledgeable with it. You mentioned that you never bet the "don't" and rarely place bet. Theses bets have their advantages and disadvantages. If you don't understand their play, and when to take them down or hedge, you can lose your bankroll quickly.
IMO, if you bet pass line w/odds, you should start slowly, then work your odds bets up if winning. Small wins, and keeping your losses to a minimum is smart "gambling".
Don't change the way you are betting unless you are knowledgeable with it. You mentioned that you never bet the "don't" and rarely place bet. Theses bets have their advantages and disadvantages. If you don't understand their play, and when to take them down or hedge, you can lose your bankroll quickly.
IMO, if you bet pass line w/odds, you should start slowly, then work your odds bets up if winning. Small wins, and keeping your losses to a minimum is smart "gambling".
February 5th, 2012 at 4:23:44 AM
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I have found tconley's experience and knowledge interesting, but seeing how this is the Wizard's forum, I think it should be said Wthat much of this advice - hedging, timing, etc.- is not the kind of advice you would get from an ask-the-Wizard. Just in case eastcoastguy doesnt know that.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
February 5th, 2012 at 6:01:11 AM
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odiousgambit,
You're right,
I don't mean to steer eastcoastguy away from his way of playing. IMO, I just think he could play smarter by taking small steps with odds bets.
You're right,
I don't mean to steer eastcoastguy away from his way of playing. IMO, I just think he could play smarter by taking small steps with odds bets.
February 5th, 2012 at 6:16:51 AM
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Quote: odiousgambitI have found tconley's experience and knowledge interesting, but seeing how this is the Wizard's forum, I think it should be said Wthat much of this advice - hedging, timing, etc.- is not the kind of advice you would get from an ask-the-Wizard. Just in case eastcoastguy doesnt know that.
I understand the point here--the odds of rolling a given number on any given roll are exactly the same--but there is something to be said for jumping in while the table results seem to be pointing in the right direction albeit with the full realization that there really is no way to know if the trend will continue or end.
It's just like the bouncy tables at Casino Royale...they don't increase the odds of a "7" over any other number (unless someone is actually successfully at dice control, that has been debated here many times) BUT it may seem they do just like I know FOR A FACT that I will always roll a "7" if the dice bounce up and hit the lip of the table. I know that is not a true statement BUT the only number I ever remember coming up when that happens is...."7"....
I have become a believer in letting the table work for me. I start with bets in the 1-2 unit range ($5/$6 or $10/$12) and odds @ 2x-5x and then follow the results by pressing aggressively once I get a win or two times (which lessens the potential loss). Does it work all the time? Nope. Since I have a "floor" on losses, I have a stopping point. On a choppy table, you pretty much stay around your original buy-in but a hot roll will take you from $400 to $800 or more very quickly.
It isn't a system, it does not work every time BUT it does make for a lot of fun when it goes well!!
Whatever you do...HAVE FUN!! Darn few of us will end up beating the casino in the long run!!
February 5th, 2012 at 6:21:16 AM
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Quote: tconley19eastcoastguy,
I'll start this reply "In my opinion"
When I bet pass line, I also bet the "don't" pass and try and go up on at least 1 or 2 don't comes hoping to seven out quickly. I don't seem to have much difficulty with that. I'm not a DI (don't practice enough), but do set the dice for an all sevens showing.
My advice to you would be to watch the table(s) for a few shooters to see what numbers are hitting, and if you would have won on those shooters or not. If shooters are throwing quick point seven outs, beware. There were many quick seven outs due to "extra" cushioning under the felt. I believe it caused the dice to tumble more and make them prone to seven outs (beware).
Where to start..... If you simultaneously bet the pass and don't pass lines, you are... oh, well....
So if you notice over the last few rolls '5' hit thrice you should now be.... oh, well...
So with cushiony felt you get 1.2 sevens per 6 rolls instead of 1 seven per 6 rolls? Do you REALLY believe this? Really? Come on....
As far as the initial bankroll question, the answer cannot be give unless you define it beforehand. You must say something like... I want to be able to play for at least 3 hours with that bankroll... Then someone can answer you with something like this... "If you come with $500 and play that way 90% of the time you will last at least 3 hours...." Or ..."If you only come with $300 then 50% of the time you will not make it to 3 hours..."
February 5th, 2012 at 6:48:24 AM
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soopoo,
dont betting while I shoot
pass/don't pass bet,establish a point (only way to lose the bet is the c/o 12),add dc bet,same time add dp odds for 1 roll to hedge the dc against the 7 or 11. when dc travels, down on the odds,add another dc bet and now have 2 dc bets w/o any fear of the c/o 7.
another don't bet I like,
wait for a point to be established, then lay the point and add dc bet and $1 yo. when dc bet travels, down on the lay and add another dc bet. the lay acts as a hedge for the dc c/o 7, the yo the 11.
IMO,
all tables are not the same and influence the dice differently. I won't even attempt to try and convince you otherwise!
to each his own!
dont betting while I shoot
pass/don't pass bet,establish a point (only way to lose the bet is the c/o 12),add dc bet,same time add dp odds for 1 roll to hedge the dc against the 7 or 11. when dc travels, down on the odds,add another dc bet and now have 2 dc bets w/o any fear of the c/o 7.
another don't bet I like,
wait for a point to be established, then lay the point and add dc bet and $1 yo. when dc bet travels, down on the lay and add another dc bet. the lay acts as a hedge for the dc c/o 7, the yo the 11.
IMO,
all tables are not the same and influence the dice differently. I won't even attempt to try and convince you otherwise!
to each his own!
February 5th, 2012 at 8:43:10 AM
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Quote: tconley19IMO,
all tables are not the same and influence the dice differently. I won't even attempt to try and convince you otherwise!
to each his own!
I don't think anyone would disagree that the dice may roll a little different on a given table--the only disagreement would be whether or not that influences the actual outcome.
If it is a "bouncy" table what would make a "7" more likely than it normally is? "Bouncy" or "hard" or any other condition would impact all rolls the same, so the odds would remain the same.
As I mentioned, a certain thing happens (the dice bounce off the table and hit the lip) and the only thing I can ever remember happening then is "7 out"...but, realistically, I am pretty sure that a lot of other numbers have been rolled on the same type bounce--I just remember the bad ones!!
It is important to catch "hot" streaks but it is just as important to know that the next roll in any streak has the exact same odds of being any given number as any other roll.
February 5th, 2012 at 9:37:37 AM
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Quote: eastcoastguyHello all!
I was wonderiing if the more experienced craps players on this forum could lend me their advice? I am heading to Vegas in a couple of weeks, and plan on playing craps only. I always play with a minimum pass line bet (never the dark side) combined with maximum free odds. I hardly ever make a place bet (very rarely), and I dont use come bets (simply a bankroll issue). So basically it is just a single minimum pass line bet with maximum odds until either the point is rolled or the shooter 7's out. Then the I bet the same for the next roll and so on.
Can I get some input as to what my minimum bankroll should be to handle the potential "swings" if...
...I am playing at a $3 minimum table with 10x odds.
...I am playing at a $5 minimum table with 3x,4x,5x odds.
...I am playing at a $5 minimum table with 20x odds (sure wish MSS downtown offered $3 minimum craps with 20X odds instead of the $5 minimum. Do they ever offer $3? Weekday mornings on occasion perhaps?).
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks!
as others have said, bankroll = 10x what you're willing to put on the table per shooter.
for casino royale, it's $3min 20x odds.
I do 3point molly which is 3 #s. passline + puts on 6+8
63 x 3 = 189.
i usually buy in for $2000.
lose 1/2 i walk away.
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice).
Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
February 5th, 2012 at 9:46:09 AM
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I think that even Casino Royale goes to a $5 min on some weekends (if not all). We were there last year on NASCAR weekend; mins went up on Thursday around noon or so...
February 5th, 2012 at 11:00:21 AM
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6 ways to make a 7 is always in the back of my mind. Add a bouncy table that makes the dice roll a few extra times - it "ain't" rocket science it's just my opinion.
February 6th, 2012 at 12:31:45 PM
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Thanks for all of your input everyone!
I will be playing most likely at Casino Royale when I make the trip to Vegas, but I know that the craps tables there are often packed. What is the best time to go to easily get a spot at a table? Mornings I assume, like 6-11 AM? The casino is probably less smokey at that time as well which would be a bonus for this non-smoker? :-)
I will be playing most likely at Casino Royale when I make the trip to Vegas, but I know that the craps tables there are often packed. What is the best time to go to easily get a spot at a table? Mornings I assume, like 6-11 AM? The casino is probably less smokey at that time as well which would be a bonus for this non-smoker? :-)
February 6th, 2012 at 1:47:37 PM
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Not sure if it has been mentioned or not, but the biggest disadvantage to Casino Royal to me is that they really like to pack in the players. I'm not even sure if the table is open at 6am(they do in fact close the table, or at least they did ~2-3 years ago). I assume it is open at 8-9 though. Even at that time, it is possible it will be very crowded.
I would go with that strategy though. Just have a backup plan in mind since your table options are somewhat limited if you don't want to play 3/4/5 tables.
I would go with that strategy though. Just have a backup plan in mind since your table options are somewhat limited if you don't want to play 3/4/5 tables.
February 6th, 2012 at 1:50:58 PM
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I also like playing early mornings. Up by 5 and sometimes on the tables as early as 6. Just make sure you're fully awake and not exhausted. As I've mentioned on this post, IMO, you should dance lightly before you dance the tango. In other words, start out slowly with your odds bets until you get a feel for what the table is telling you. The odds are against you if you think you'll be making a killing at the tables. Small wins during many sessions will have you leaving Vegas with a smile. Losing your entire bankroll will make for a long flight home.
Good luck to you, and please post how you did when you get back.....
Good luck to you, and please post how you did when you get back.....
February 6th, 2012 at 3:03:07 PM
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If you think about it for a second, and apply some investigative reasoning, there is a way to make the Casino Royale game a marginally positive expectation game. No, I don't believe in dice influencing, and no, I don't cheat by sliding dice or past posting. And no, I'm not factoring in comps. Think like an AP. I used to play the Casino Royale game all the time, until I made a personal rule that I would never fly to a casino. The drive is Vegas is too far.
February 6th, 2012 at 3:23:03 PM
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Quote: soulhunt79Not sure if it has been mentioned or not, but the biggest disadvantage to Casino Royal to me is that they really like to pack in the players. I'm not even sure if the table is open at 6am(they do in fact close the table, or at least they did ~2-3 years ago). I assume it is open at 8-9 though. Even at that time, it is possible it will be very crowded.
From what I remember at Casino Royale, the $3 minimum table opens around 9AM. I don't know how late it stays open. The $5 minimum table always seems to be open. The odds are only 20x if you're betting $3. You have to bet $5 before they allow the 100x odds. I too have never seen anyone take advantage of the 100x odds. I have seen players at Casino Royale take advantage of the 20x odds on a $5 bet. It was fun to watch a red on the pass line backed with a black.
I often play at 6AM on the $5 table on my Vegas trip during March break and usually there is only one or two other players there. Often I've had the table to myself. I play a lot of don'ts even if I'm the shooter so it's nice to play when it's not busy.
--helpmespock
February 6th, 2012 at 4:51:53 PM
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Quote: klimate10If you think about it for a second, and apply some investigative reasoning, there is a way to make the Casino Royale game a marginally positive expectation game. No, I don't believe in dice influencing, and no, I don't cheat by sliding dice or past posting. And no, I'm not factoring in comps.
No there is not.
February 6th, 2012 at 4:55:18 PM
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Quote: klimate10If you think about it for a second, and apply some investigative reasoning, there is a way to make the Casino Royale game a marginally positive expectation game.
I'd love to hear what one can do to make any negative expectation game a "marginally positive expectation game"...not counting those who count cards and other known plays (VP with better than 100% return, etc.). No one has said that about craps without being a purveyor of a system...
I'll be playing at CR in a month...
February 6th, 2012 at 5:19:15 PM
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I agree with the above two skeptics. Even with dice control, it is very hard to make it to an "even" expectation. Which I believe is possible. But to make it CONSISTENTLY a positive EV, no way.
February 6th, 2012 at 6:03:28 PM
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If you think about it for a second, and apply some investigative reasoning, there is a way to make the Casino Royale game a marginally positive expectation game.
I'm trying to be constructive here. klimate, What is your investigative reasoning to make the Casino Royale game a marginally positive expectation game?
I'm trying to be constructive here. klimate, What is your investigative reasoning to make the Casino Royale game a marginally positive expectation game?
February 6th, 2012 at 6:11:00 PM
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I bet you'll have to investigate further to find out the investigative reasoning. Or you just have to buy a system for 29.95.
February 7th, 2012 at 8:58:43 AM
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If I am going to play at Casino Royale then I will try to go around 8-9 AM in the hopes of getting on the minimum $3 table. I will probably take advantage of the full 20x odds, but $63 per roll will be my maximum in action. I would much rather play at the $3 table and max the odds if at all possible. Another place in which I will likely darken the door is El Cortez. I like the 10x odds there, but I am a little concerned about it being slightly off the beaten trail with respect to the FSE. I would only be going there most likely in the morning, but is it safe to walk from the FSE to El Cortez by oneself? I have heard that the neighbourhood is not the best?
Just as an aside, if I am betting $63 per roll, then would playing at Casino Royale be better than El Cortez with repect to earning comps (not that I am that really interested in earning comps from either place given the food choices, but I am curious). I really wish MSS downtown woud offer a $3 minimum in the mornings on weekdays, but from what I have been told then never drop the limit below $5. I would be more interested in comps from MSS as it is a far nicer place. But then again, I dont think any of the casinos I mentioned rate odds bets, so perhaps my question is moot.
Thanks!
Just as an aside, if I am betting $63 per roll, then would playing at Casino Royale be better than El Cortez with repect to earning comps (not that I am that really interested in earning comps from either place given the food choices, but I am curious). I really wish MSS downtown woud offer a $3 minimum in the mornings on weekdays, but from what I have been told then never drop the limit below $5. I would be more interested in comps from MSS as it is a far nicer place. But then again, I dont think any of the casinos I mentioned rate odds bets, so perhaps my question is moot.
Thanks!
February 7th, 2012 at 9:29:22 AM
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We usually make a stop at the El Cortez when we are in town. It's not the best but we have not felt unsafe. It's really only a block or so from the main part of downtown. Also, we have always had good luck there with craps even though I know its totally random. Good luck!
February 7th, 2012 at 10:19:12 AM
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I don't believe Casino Royale gives comps on craps play. Best to call them or see if you can confirm here on the forum
eastcoastguy,
There was 1 post that said Casino Royale does give comps on your pl bets but not on the odds.
eastcoastguy,
There was 1 post that said Casino Royale does give comps on your pl bets but not on the odds.
February 7th, 2012 at 10:28:12 AM
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Thank you, Tconley. I shall now remove this post.
February 7th, 2012 at 12:25:50 PM
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Quote: tconley19Basic money management 101....
If you want to play smart, you need to leave a particular table after 3 consecutive losses, or up to 50% of your buy in. It can be 40% or 30% or whatever your loss trigger(comfort level) is to leave that session. The same goes if you are winning. Only continue to play if you've reached a predetermined goal (win 20-30%), then play with 1/2 of your winnings, rat hole (pocket) the rest. If you feel that you're going to play underfunded with (scared money) and expect to lose all of your chips, why play at all?
You should always leave a table with at least half of your buy in so you don't feel like a total loser (I'm not being offensive here)......You should also have enough bankroll to play a predetermined amount of sessions. If you're playing 3 sessions, have enough bankroll for each individual session. Don't use money from 1 session to fund another one (unless you want to lose it all)
Craps is a negative expectation game with a small house edge on certain bets. Knowledge of how to bet, and when to leave the table (winning or losing) is a must. The longer you play, the house edge will eat at your winnings.
Another good indicator when to leave a table and find another game is a choppy table. If you find yourself winning a few hands, and losing a few on a continuous basis, find another table. You won't keep any profit on that table.
If you're going to play craps for the "fun" of it, then by all means buy in underfunded and expect to give it to the casino.
Just my opinion
Tom
a 101 and an IMO are pretty opposite if u ask me.
101 should be math and facts
imo's can have personal b-roll mgt superstitions ect
February 7th, 2012 at 12:28:51 PM
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klimate10
Thanks for responding
Thanks for responding
February 7th, 2012 at 12:32:43 PM
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jpprovance,
You are correct.
That was just a figure of speech on my way of money management and play. I try not force my opinions down peoples throats. I add IMO quite often
You are correct.
That was just a figure of speech on my way of money management and play. I try not force my opinions down peoples throats. I add IMO quite often
March 22nd, 2012 at 6:39:46 PM
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removed
silly
Sally
March Madness
Go Kentucky!
ps, next poster is correct
silly
Sally
March Madness
Go Kentucky!
ps, next poster is correct
I Heart Vi Hart
March 23rd, 2012 at 12:54:57 AM
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Quote: mustangsally
23.00 average bet
1% RoR(1 out of 100 bust)
120 bets/4hrs play
$920 Bankroll
-0.014331481 ev/sd
0.494282762 (prob of being even or ahead at end)
ev -$5.09
sd $355.23
$600 Bankroll
9.34% RoR(10 out of 100 bust)
Very nice... a little more 'splaning though, please!
the second line seems to have no connection with the rest? or you mean to say here a $920 bankroll makes for 1% RoR?.... but a $600 bankroll has 9.34% RoR?
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
