The math of adding to a pass line bet after the come out

I see this all the time: a player makes a $5 pass line bet, waits for the come out, then adds more money to the pass line bet (in addition to making an odds bet). This is really bad strategy, so I am wondering what the house edge increases to by doing this.

I know the original $5 has a 1.41% house advantage. My math says the house gets a whopping 12.5% to anything additional post-come out. Do others concur?

No - not if you also add to the odds, in a "put" bet fashion.

Assume no odds. What is the house edge of just the additional money put on the pass line after the come out.

Quote: centerfield9

Assume no odds. What is the house edge of just the additional money put on the pass line after the come out.

From https://wizardofodds.com/games/craps/ put bets section.

Quote:

33.33% on the 4 and 10, 20.00% on the 5 and 9, and 9.09% on the 6 and 8

Thank you. I do understand the house edge of the individual numbers. I'm just trying to get the average vig for those who make this bet after each come out, regardless of the point.

Quote: centerfield9

Assume no odds. What is the house edge of just the additional money put on the pass line after the come out.

Do people really do that? It seems as if your intuition would tell you that is a dumb move. You are foregoing the 2:1 advantage on the come-out roll.

In any case the house advantage on this money would be 12.5%=62/495 which would make it one of the most profitable bet on the craps table for the casino, as opposed to 1.141%=7/495. Or another way to say it is you raised the house advantage by a factor of 9.

The worst normal bet on the craps table is the Any 7 which has a house edge of 82.5/495 .

If you want to verify the calculation yourself the odds that you win a "pass line" bet are done by this calculation.
You can do it in an Excel Spreadsheet since there is a format setting that displays the result as fraction of up to three digits.

The first fraction is the probability of winning the come-out roll. You need to modify these calculation to exclude this fraction by eliminating the come-out term.

=(8/36) +(3/36)*(3/9) + (4/36)*(4/10) + (5/36)*(5/11) + (5/36)*(5/11) + (4/36)*(4/10) + (3/36)*(3/9) = 244/459 : P(player win)
=(4/36) +(3/36)*(6/9) + (4/36)*(6/10) + (5/36)*(6/11) + (5/36)*(6/11) + (4/36)*(6/10) + (3/36)*(6/9) = 251/459 : P(casino win)

P(player win) + P(casino win)+ P(neutral outcome)= 100%; P(casino win) - P(player win) = 7/495 = 1.414% is house edge.

I have seen people do this at local casinos here and its 10-20x odds so they have not come close to maxing odds. My favorite one time was I was shooting guy was in the don't pass, I hit a 6 and he moved his bed to Pass with Odds, now I am pretty sure that is not OK

Quote: RonDiaz

I have seen people do this at local casinos here and its 10-20x odds so they have not come close to maxing odds. My favorite one time was I was shooting guy was in the don't pass, I hit a 6 and he moved his bed to Pass with Odds, now I am pretty sure that is not OK

It's OK in that it's legal. It's legal because it is a stupid move on the part of the player.

You can move from the don't pass to the pass, but once a bet is established on the pass line, it may not be removed or reduced, as it is a "contract bet."
The don't pass, by contrast, may be taken down at any time, but may only be bet (or made) for the come-out roll, - otherwise it is a Lay bet (once the point is established.)

My experience with something like this was at the Muckleshoot in Washington State. In the past they only allowed full double odds, so with a PL of $5 it was common to add a buck on the PL and have $15 of odds.

It all depends on the money.. If you're at a 2x odds table, you never want to put the point, you might as well just place it. If it's a 3-4-5 odds table, then you need to take full odds, but that's just as good as placing the point for the same amount. Here in Iowa, they allow 10x odds, so it's worth it to put with full odds. That's better than placing the point. However, I think it's better to buy the 4 or 10 with vig paid up front rather than putting it with full odds.

That's where the confusion comes in with making come bets. Even my fellow dealers think placing is better. They view the come bet as a put bet, and say it's not worth doing come bets unless you take full odds, because with smaller odds you're actually getting paid less than had you made place bets. However, those point sevens are what make the place bets worse. So if you make a flat put bet it's terrible. If you take more than 5x odds than it's okay to put the bet, or buying the 4 and 10

As an extreme case assume the point is 6 (or 8) with 20x odds. You could place $210 to win $245 or put $10 with $200 odds to win $10+240 = $250.

That took awhile to figure out!

Put bets are simple to understand. They are Contract bets made directly on a Point number without the bother of either Natural Winners or Natural Losers on a first roll. Standing alone, their mathematical disadvantages depend solely upon which Point number was Put. A Put bet on number 8 is better than a Put bet on number 9, which in turn is better than a Put bet on number 10.

In exchange for those disadvantages, Put bets are rewarded with the privilege of taking Free Odds. A good rule of thumb is that the combination of a Put bet with a bet of 5x Odds is mathematically closely equivalent to a Place bet on that Point number.

In Houses that permit Odds multiples of 10x or higher, Put bets plus Odds bets can be a useful strategy for getting significant Action very quickly.

Quote: pwcrabb

In Houses that permit Odds multiples of 10x or higher, Put bets plus Odds bets can be a useful strategy for getting significant Action very quickly.

This is a fun way to play crapsless craps.