centerfield9
Joined: Dec 26, 2011
• Posts: 5
December 26th, 2011 at 4:59:31 PM permalink
I see this all the time: a player makes a \$5 pass line bet, waits for the come out, then adds more money to the pass line bet (in addition to making an odds bet). This is really bad strategy, so I am wondering what the house edge increases to by doing this.

I know the original \$5 has a 1.41% house advantage. My math says the house gets a whopping 12.5% to anything additional post-come out. Do others concur?
The less you bet, the more you lose when you win
Paigowdan
Joined: Apr 28, 2010
• Posts: 5692
December 26th, 2011 at 6:04:40 PM permalink
No - not if you also add to the odds, in a "put" bet fashion.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
centerfield9
Joined: Dec 26, 2011
• Posts: 5
December 26th, 2011 at 7:21:20 PM permalink
Assume no odds. What is the house edge of just the additional money put on the pass line after the come out.
The less you bet, the more you lose when you win
miplet

Joined: Dec 1, 2009
• Posts: 1935
December 26th, 2011 at 7:43:28 PM permalink
Quote: centerfield9

Assume no odds. What is the house edge of just the additional money put on the pass line after the come out.

From http://wizardofodds.com/games/craps/ put bets section.

Quote:

33.33% on the 4 and 10, 20.00% on the 5 and 9, and 9.09% on the 6 and 8

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centerfield9
Joined: Dec 26, 2011
• Posts: 5
December 27th, 2011 at 5:18:25 AM permalink
Thank you. I do understand the house edge of the individual numbers. I'm just trying to get the average vig for those who make this bet after each come out, regardless of the point.
The less you bet, the more you lose when you win
pacomartin
Joined: Jan 14, 2010
• Posts: 7895
December 27th, 2011 at 5:42:19 AM permalink
Quote: centerfield9

Assume no odds. What is the house edge of just the additional money put on the pass line after the come out.

Do people really do that? It seems as if your intuition would tell you that is a dumb move. You are foregoing the 2:1 advantage on the come-out roll.

In any case the house advantage on this money would be 12.5%=62/495 which would make it one of the most profitable bet on the craps table for the casino, as opposed to 1.141%=7/495. Or another way to say it is you raised the house advantage by a factor of 9.

The worst normal bet on the craps table is the Any 7 which has a house edge of 82.5/495 .

If you want to verify the calculation yourself the odds that you win a "pass line" bet are done by this calculation.
You can do it in an Excel Spreadsheet since there is a format setting that displays the result as fraction of up to three digits.

The first fraction is the probability of winning the come-out roll. You need to modify these calculation to exclude this fraction by eliminating the come-out term.

=(8/36) +(3/36)*(3/9) + (4/36)*(4/10) + (5/36)*(5/11) + (5/36)*(5/11) + (4/36)*(4/10) + (3/36)*(3/9) = 244/459 : P(player win)
=(4/36) +(3/36)*(6/9) + (4/36)*(6/10) + (5/36)*(6/11) + (5/36)*(6/11) + (4/36)*(6/10) + (3/36)*(6/9) = 251/459 : P(casino win)

P(player win) + P(casino win)+ P(neutral outcome)= 100%; P(casino win) - P(player win) = 7/495 = 1.414% is house edge.
RonDiaz
Joined: Jun 26, 2010
• Posts: 56
December 28th, 2011 at 10:41:19 AM permalink
I have seen people do this at local casinos here and its 10-20x odds so they have not come close to maxing odds. My favorite one time was I was shooting guy was in the don't pass, I hit a 6 and he moved his bed to Pass with Odds, now I am pretty sure that is not OK
pacomartin
Joined: Jan 14, 2010
• Posts: 7895
December 28th, 2011 at 12:35:05 PM permalink
Quote: RonDiaz

I have seen people do this at local casinos here and its 10-20x odds so they have not come close to maxing odds. My favorite one time was I was shooting guy was in the don't pass, I hit a 6 and he moved his bed to Pass with Odds, now I am pretty sure that is not OK

It's OK in that it's legal. It's legal because it is a stupid move on the part of the player.
Paigowdan
Joined: Apr 28, 2010
• Posts: 5692
December 28th, 2011 at 1:12:43 PM permalink
You can move from the don't pass to the pass, but once a bet is established on the pass line, it may not be removed or reduced, as it is a "contract bet."
The don't pass, by contrast, may be taken down at any time, but may only be bet (or made) for the come-out roll, - otherwise it is a Lay bet (once the point is established.)
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
ahiromu
Joined: Jan 15, 2010