Poll

5 votes (14.7%)
23 votes (67.64%)
6 votes (17.64%)

34 members have voted

boxman4
boxman4
Joined: Oct 12, 2011
  • Threads: 2
  • Posts: 9
October 26th, 2011 at 11:21:58 PM permalink
I have been in the business 8 years now, 7 of which have predominately been on a craps game, and until this weekend had never witnessed stacked dice after a roll. This not only happened, but it happened twice within 20 minutes, same stick man on both occasions, who quickly slapped them calling no roll. I vaguely remember learning about this in school, and believe it to be a valid roll, obviously calling the tops of both. Unfortunately our hands were tied on the second such roll, forced to call no roll since it happened so closely to the first with pretty much all the same players. I work with many who have been doing this 20 plus years, some of which also had never witnessed stacked dice. My question to all of you is have you witnessed this and how often?
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
  • Threads: 265
  • Posts: 14466
October 27th, 2011 at 2:19:03 AM permalink
Yeah, once. Decades ago.
The rule is that as long as they wound up stacked atop one another with no outside influence that would otherwise cause a no-roll, then the stacked dice roll is valid despite all the brash young stickmen who don't know their jobs and want to call no roll. A die landing atop a stack of chips is valid. A die landing atop another die is valid.

That stick should have been written up. Twice.
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
  • Threads: 178
  • Posts: 10256
October 27th, 2011 at 5:12:50 AM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

The rule is ... the stacked dice roll is valid.

How can you tell what the bottom die is?

If one die is on top of the other, you cannot be certain of the top face on the bottom die. More importantly, the eye in the sky can't see it either.

Therefore, I would think it's a No-Roll. Of course, if I were the stick, I might have asked the floorman for a ruling.



Quote: FleaStiff

A die landing atop a stack of chips is valid. A die landing atop another die is valid.

Yeah, but in that case, you can still see which face is up, without having to touch anything.

If a die is leaning against the rail or chips, you can see which way it would fall without actually moving the chips or rail.

In fact, you see it all the time where a die lands behind the dealers stack. The dealer will move the stack, before moving the die. The obvious reason is so there's no chance of funny business.


When they're stacked, you're asking the dealer to touch a die before the roll is known? That's just begging someone to complain, particularly if the roll turns out to be a seven out.
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
  • Threads: 265
  • Posts: 14466
October 27th, 2011 at 5:26:26 AM permalink
First of all by looking at the sides you should be able to tell, but you call out the top die and move it carefully then call out the bottom die. What do you think all those mirrors are for but to catch people who try to sneak Tops into a dice game. Opposite faces of a die add to Seven.
Anyway, the rules used to be quite clear. Stacked Dice were a valid roll as long as that is simply how they landed and no one did anything to influence it. Striking a player's sleeve and bouncing onto the bottom die was valid but adhering to a woolen sleeve and then after a brief delay merely falling onto the bottom die was not.

If the throw was proper and stayed within the table its a valid roll even if they land atop each other. You want to encourage the proper throws and the throws that don't go wild but you don't want to discourage those random bounces because that is what keeps things fair. If a die lands cocked against something such as a stack of chips... its the Ice Cube Rule. Think of melting ice and call out how it will land when the ice melts.
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
  • Threads: 178
  • Posts: 10256
October 27th, 2011 at 5:43:24 AM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

First of all by looking at the sides you should be able to tell...

Nope. You'd have to know if the dice are right-handed or left-handed.

I will of course defer to the rules, but it just rubs me the wrong way that a dealer would have to reach in and handle one die before the complete roll is known.

I understand not wanting to discourage random rolls, but it happens so rarely, and it seems like such an impossible trick to achieve on demand, that there's nothing a dealer can say.
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
  • Threads: 265
  • Posts: 14466
October 27th, 2011 at 7:52:08 AM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

Nope. You'd have to know if the dice are right-handed or left-handed.

Usually the set of five dice supplied at opening of the table are going to be all the same. Type, color, even sequential numbers.
Fleaswatter
Fleaswatter
Joined: Dec 1, 2010
  • Threads: 10
  • Posts: 442
October 27th, 2011 at 10:52:32 AM permalink
From New Jersey gaming rules:

19:47-1.9 Invalid roll of the dice
(a) A roll of the dice shall be invalid whenever either or both of the dice go off the table or whenever one die comes to rest on top of the other.


http://www.state.nj.us/casinos/actreg/reg/chapter_47.html#8
new motto for the left: I don't know if I received bad information, but I think I suspected there was more than there actually was, (John Brennan Mar 25, 2019)
Ayecarumba
Ayecarumba
Joined: Nov 17, 2009
  • Threads: 236
  • Posts: 6763
October 27th, 2011 at 12:34:34 PM permalink
Quote: boxman4

I have been in the business 8 years now, 7 of which have predominately been on a craps game, and until this weekend had never witnessed stacked dice after a roll. This not only happened, but it happened twice within 20 minutes, same stick man on both occasions, who quickly slapped them calling no roll. I vaguely remember learning about this in school, and believe it to be a valid roll, obviously calling the tops of both. Unfortunately our hands were tied on the second such roll, forced to call no roll since it happened so closely to the first with pretty much all the same players. I work with many who have been doing this 20 plus years, some of which also had never witnessed stacked dice. My question to all of you is have you witnessed this and how often?



I've seen it happen a few times. As I recall, in each case, the end of the table was crowded with stacks of line and odds bets which helped to keep the dice from bounding all over. In each case, the stick asked for a call from the dealer on that side. The dealer would gingerly pick up the top die, and make the call. Everyone was watching to see if the bottom die was moved, so no one complained.

For me at least, it seems that I've seen it as often as a die leaning against a stack of chips at, what appeared to me, exactly 45 degrees on an edge. The call went the shooter's way one time, and seven out the other.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
7outlineaway
7outlineaway
Joined: Nov 13, 2009
  • Threads: 9
  • Posts: 282
October 27th, 2011 at 8:46:01 PM permalink
It's a no-roll in Colorado as well. Exact same wording as the NJ law.
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 1338
  • Posts: 22091
October 28th, 2011 at 10:25:05 AM permalink
I just had breakfast with "The Bone Man," a dice dealer here in Vegas. He said the number of times he has seen that happen is zero. However, if it did, it would be a valid roll. They would lift the top die to expose the bottom one.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.

  • Jump to: