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AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
Joined: Oct 5, 2011
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January 12th, 2022 at 7:50:59 PM permalink
Quote: Vegasrider

With so many chips on the table, how can anyone throw a controlled roll? Itís more believable if the surface of the table remained constant free of chips
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What makes you think a DI would play at a crowded table? They don't.

They don't want to hit chips and they certainly don't want chips in their landing zone.
Ace2
Ace2 
Joined: Oct 2, 2017
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January 12th, 2022 at 8:03:41 PM permalink
DIs play in fantasyland
Itís all about making that GTA
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
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January 12th, 2022 at 8:28:14 PM permalink
Quote: Ace2

DIs play in fantasyland
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Fantasy DIs play in fantasyland. You've probably never seen a real DI because there are so few of them.

I'd say being at a table with a true DI is like being in a foursome with Tiger Woods.
Ace2
Ace2 
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January 12th, 2022 at 9:20:57 PM permalink
BS.

Even if DI were possible, which it isnít since no one has demonstrated consistent statistically significant results, the effect on the dice would be small. You wouldnít see it, it would only become evident over thousands of rolls (or more)
Itís all about making that GTA
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
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Thanks for this post from:
DeMango
January 12th, 2022 at 10:19:18 PM permalink
Quote: Ace2

BS.

Even if DI were possible, which it isnít since no one has demonstrated consistent statistically significant results, the effect on the dice would be small. You wouldnít see it, it would only become evident over thousands of rolls (or more)
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That's right... because you've never been at a table with a true DI.

You've never seen a player do it so you repeat what you've read by others who also have never seen it.

DI is not something supernatural. However it is a very rare skill in part because few have actually learned or practiced it.

If DI were taught in public schools beginning in the fourth grade there would be enough professionals to fill up the tables at casinos. But it's not taught or practiced and few have the basic physical abilities to even make a decent attempt at it.

I personally could never master it for many reasons and I'll list some:

1. I dont have the necessary vision or depth perception.
2. My hand shakes from medicines I take.
3. I've never practiced enough.
4. I don't have the concentration or physical discipline to repeat the same motions with my arm and hand

The bottom line is just because you can't do it, it doesn't mean everyone else can't do it either.

By the way, I can't sing or dance either.

And one more point: a DI doesnt need thousands of rolls to prove the ability. DI is easy to detect. A shooter needs to keep the two dice travelling close together as if they were twins in a gentle arc parallel to the table and hitting the back wall softly. A real expert DI will hit the back wall just under the pyramids or hitting the pyramids so gently that the dice appear to die immediately.
DeMango
DeMango
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January 13th, 2022 at 12:50:41 AM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: DeMango

When you really think about it, Soopoo is claiming the laws of physics end at the dice table.
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. Quite the opposite. Just that there are some laws of physics a human canít overcome. Itís a really simple concept.
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Says you. You wrong.
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
TumblingBones
TumblingBones
Joined: Dec 25, 2016
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January 13th, 2022 at 6:23:40 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson


A shooter needs to keep the two dice travelling close together as if they were twins in a gentle arc parallel to the table and hitting the back wall softly. A real expert DI will hit the back wall just under the pyramids or hitting the pyramids so gently that the dice appear to die immediately.
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I've given some thought to DI in terms of how the physics might play out and most of what you say makes sense to me. The exception is your statement about "a gentle arc parallel to the table". If by "parallel" you mean a mostly flat trajectory then I would, from a theoretical POV, disagree.

The motion of the dice when they hit the table can be broken down into an X and Y vector. Hitting the table as close to the back wall as possible where the table is stiffest should absorb the greatest amount of energy in the Y (i.e.., vertical) dimension. If I recall the lessons from my high school physics correctly, minimal velocity along the X axis is achieved via a parabolic arc in which a high toss is used to allow increased travel time (i.e., more energy in Y and less in X). A low and flat trajectory requires a much higher horizontal velocity and, therefore, more of a bounce off the back wall.
My goal of being well informed conflicts with my goal of remaining sane.
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
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January 13th, 2022 at 10:02:17 AM permalink
Quote: TumblingBones

Quote: AlanMendelson


A shooter needs to keep the two dice travelling close together as if they were twins in a gentle arc parallel to the table and hitting the back wall softly. A real expert DI will hit the back wall just under the pyramids or hitting the pyramids so gently that the dice appear to die immediately.
link to original post


I've given some thought to DI in terms of how the physics might play out and most of what you say makes sense to me. The exception is your statement about "a gentle arc parallel to the table". If by "parallel" you mean a mostly flat trajectory then I would, from a theoretical POV, disagree.

The motion of the dice when they hit the table can be broken down into an X and Y vector. Hitting the table as close to the back wall as possible where the table is stiffest should absorb the greatest amount of energy in the Y (i.e.., vertical) dimension. If I recall the lessons from my high school physics correctly, minimal velocity along the X axis is achieved via a parabolic arc in which a high toss is used to allow increased travel time (i.e., more energy in Y and less in X). A low and flat trajectory requires a much higher horizontal velocity and, therefore, more of a bounce off the back wall.
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Thanks. I'm not disagreeing with you, and my terminology and choice of words may not be correct. My point is that a DI throw has special characteristics that limit the movement of dice.
TumblingBones
TumblingBones
Joined: Dec 25, 2016
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January 13th, 2022 at 11:04:35 AM permalink
Agreed. The part I haven't figured out is the optimal way to deal with the back-wall pyramids. If I had the time and energy (mainly energy since I'm pushing 70) I would model a table with a 3-D physics engine and do some experiments to see what worked best to limit the rebound.
My goal of being well informed conflicts with my goal of remaining sane.
tuttigym
tuttigym
Joined: Feb 12, 2010
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January 13th, 2022 at 12:56:42 PM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

I have seen it work... but with fewer than 5 shooters. That's five in my lifetime.
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Describe one session with a "successful" DI that you have witnessed, i.e., the number of hands played and the number of rolls/hand and the number of point conversions within those hands. How many sessions with that DI did you witness? Did the "successful" DI 7 out at any time on a "short" hand? How long was he or she at the table, and was the shooter playing with green and black chips?

tuttigym

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