Poll

1 vote (14.28%)
5 votes (71.42%)
1 vote (14.28%)

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AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
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July 11th, 2020 at 1:26:48 PM permalink
I'd still like to know how this can be played in California if cards are not also involved?

I checked the Azure youtube video from when this game was unveiled at G2E.

I'd really appreciate an eyewitness report on how it's played at Rincon.

Yes, dice can be rolled to determine cards. But are there cards at Rincon?
ThatDonGuy
ThatDonGuy 
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AlanMendelson
July 11th, 2020 at 1:53:14 PM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

I'd still like to know how this can be played in California if cards are not also involved?


Cards are involved. Look behind the 5, 6, and 8 boxes on the far side of the table; you will see six cards - the Ace through 6 of hearts, from the looks of it.

It's edited, so I can't be certain, but it looks like that whenever there's a new shooter, the six cards are shuffled, and they represent the numbers 1-6 on the dice. If you look at the 13:12 mark, somebody throws a 5-1; it appears that the stickman pushes out the first and fifth cards in the line counting from the right (the stickman's left), although, coincidentally, this is also a 5-1 roll. (The numbers appear to be, in order, 1, 4, 3, 2, 5, 6.)

Note that, in some of the newer casinos - Graton in the San Francisco Bay Area comes to mind - hybrid and bubble craps are also illegal, as the compact prohibits any game that uses "physical dice." Presumably, strictly electronic craps, that uses "virtual dice," is allowed. Also, I don't know if this means they can't use dice to determine the active player in Pai Gow Tiles.
RogerKint
RogerKint
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AlanMendelson
July 11th, 2020 at 3:43:35 PM permalink
Ive seen it in person. There's cards.
100% risk of ruin
rsactuary
rsactuary
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July 11th, 2020 at 4:17:10 PM permalink
the videographer specifically says in the video that he edited out the "california craps" card flipping.
MattUK
MattUK
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July 11th, 2020 at 5:18:10 PM permalink
That may mean Azure has normal product and one for California, no?
What an absurd piece of anachronistic puritanism from another era, passed by people with no basic understanding of probability, in order to save future generations from evil. And all it takes to bypass it is to use another randomizer.
ThatDonGuy
ThatDonGuy 
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July 11th, 2020 at 6:10:42 PM permalink
Quote: MattUK

That may mean Azure has normal product and one for California, no?
What an absurd piece of anachronistic puritanism from another era, passed by people with no basic understanding of probability, in order to save future generations from evil. And all it takes to bypass it is to use another randomizer.


If I understand the situation correctly, the problem is not "saving future generations from evil," but the way California's state constitution is written and interpreted. When California changed its constitution to allow for a state lottery, it included a requirement that casinos "of the type found in Nevada and Atlantic City" were illegal. A few years later, the constitution was changed again to allow for "Indian" casinos, provided each tribe that ran one had an agreement, or "compact," with the state which, among other things, defined just what games it could offer, and in just about every case, the games that were allowed were (a) slot machines and other "video" machines such as video poker, (b) bingo, and (c) card games, which could include "house-banked" games that were otherwise illegal in California. Somebody came up with the idea that craps and roulette could be played with dice and a wheel if, somehow, they incorporated cards - hence, "card craps" and "card roulette."

As I posted above, later versions of the compact try to get around this by banning roulette "in all forms" as well as any game that uses actual dice. However, I have seen some more recent compacts that do not include this restriction - the one for the Harrah's casino between Sacramento and Reno doesn't seem to have it - so it may be based on whoever was governor at the time. (The original ones were with Arnold Schwarzenegger; the ones with the ban tend to be mainly with Jerry Brown; the newest ones tend to be with current governor Gavin Newsom.)
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
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July 11th, 2020 at 6:53:37 PM permalink
Twice voters in California rejected a constitutional amendment that would have allowed traditional craps and roulette games and would have allowed certain big card casinos in the state to offer Vegas gaming.

Vegas casinos poured in money to fight the amendment.
DJTeddyBear
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MattUK
July 11th, 2020 at 7:27:19 PM permalink
Quote: MattUK

That may mean Azure has normal product and one for California, no?

No.

The dealer answers the results of the roll - whether the results come from the dice or the cards, is irrelevant.

Therefore, Azure can sell the same system regardless of the local regulations.
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
MattUK
MattUK
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July 12th, 2020 at 3:04:26 AM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

The dealer answers the results of the roll - whether the results come from the dice or the cards, is irrelevant.


What I don't understand - and don't see on the video - is where are the cards actually and who's doing what with them. If that was seen on the video and was edited it would be strange as this may be most important part. What I see are two dice being used as in normal Craps so it remains a mystery to me. Alas, you either live in California or you gamble. Having both would be too good for this world. Sooner or later Azure will install them in Nevada.
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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July 12th, 2020 at 7:21:59 AM permalink
Quote: MattUK

What I don't understand - and don't see on the video - is where are the cards actually and who's doing what with them.

Look closer.

The cards are sitting on the layout, along the back wall on the dealerís right, almost in the exact center of the video.

At 8:28 the dealer moves two cards slightly. Then from 8:35 to 8:45 he touches/moves the cards then touches/moves and points to them as if explaining the card thing to a player.
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁

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