Darkside
Darkside
Joined: Jun 3, 2018
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June 3rd, 2018 at 6:16:42 PM permalink
Hello,

Long time reader, new member and contributor here. I was invited to a tournament in Vegas for free and was wondering the following:

1) Is it a good idea to buy in with real money for extra tournament money before the start of play and

2) Is it good to rebuy if you bust out.

Also, do the same standards apply to different tournaments (21, slots, craps, poker, etc.)

Thanks.
Every system works perfectly until the one time that it doesn't.
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
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June 3rd, 2018 at 6:21:12 PM permalink
Quote: Darkside

Hello,

Long time reader, new member and contributor here. I was invited to a tournament in Vegas for free and was wondering the following:

1) Is it a good idea to buy in with real money for extra tournament money before the start of play and

2) Is it good to rebuy if you bust out.

Also, do the same standards apply to different tournaments (21, slots, craps, poker, etc.)

Thanks.



1. Yes. That money usually is for the dealers and almost everyone does it. If you don't, you start short-stacked.
2. That is personal opinion IMHO. You are going to re-start with a new, smaller stack. I have been in some where you have to wait for a seat if the seating is full, stopping momentum and making your relative stack smaller yet.

Can't answer on other tournament types, never been.
Tolerance is the virtue of believing in nothing
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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June 3rd, 2018 at 6:31:19 PM permalink
Quote: Darkside

Hello,

Long time reader, new member and contributor here. I was invited to a tournament in Vegas for free and was wondering the following:

1) Is it a good idea to buy in with real money for extra tournament money before the start of play and

2) Is it good to rebuy if you bust out.

Also, do the same standards apply to different tournaments (21, slots, craps, poker, etc.)

Thanks.



Welcome to the forum, darkside.

My opinion is, rebuy value is determined by the size of the field, payout schedule, and payout currency (cash, free play, one-time chips, etc.) It also matters whether the rebuy is offered for comp points or only cash, whether different tiers get different rebuy opportunities, and what round you need to decide by.

Most places publish the payout and values: most hosts - tournament organizers will answer how many they expect or have registered a day or so ahead if you ask nicely. I don't think there's one right answer. I could be wrong. Personally, I don't rebuy except once I chased it, thinking there was value, and while there might have been, I didn't win.

Not sure whether your "standards" is specific to your rebuy questions above or more general.

If general, Tournaments usually have different bet strategies than just playing the game, because you're playing other people, not the house. A long and complicated topic for most games. We'd probably need specific info on which game, how many rounds, house tournament rules, and such, to give you a useful answer.

Edit: AZD is right; I've only seen it recently where they explained the rebuy was for the dealers, and I did do that. Good point.
"If the house lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game."
Darkside
Darkside
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June 3rd, 2018 at 6:37:40 PM permalink
By "standards", I mean should you use the same buy in strategy universally, or do it/don't do it depending on the tournament game.

The extra buy in and/or rebuy is for more tournament chips, either to start with a larger base stack, or get back in. I have no way of knowing how big the field will be.
Every system works perfectly until the one time that it doesn't.
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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June 3rd, 2018 at 7:02:32 PM permalink
Quote: Darkside

By "standards", I mean should you use the same buy in strategy universally, or do it/don't do it depending on the tournament game.

The extra buy in and/or rebuy is for more tournament chips, either to start with a larger base stack, or get back in. I have no way of knowing how big the field will be.



Sorry I didn't make it clear I understood that. I still think you have to value the tournament price. I don't think there's a single yes or no answer.

If you have the money to burn, sure. If it's a small field, and the rebuy is a significant extra percentage, and the rebuy is like, $50, again sure.

If you only get 20% more for $500 rebuy, in a field of 1000 , and higher-tier get that $500 comped but you don't, and they're only paying 50 places, most less than $1k, and it's free play that has to be spun in a slot...
probably not. Which was a roulette tournament I did a while back. I didn't rebuy. I still got 12th. Luckbox.

Again, I could be wrong.
"If the house lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game."
Wizard
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Wizard
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June 3rd, 2018 at 8:19:31 PM permalink
Quote: Darkside


1) Is it a good idea to buy in with real money for extra tournament money before the start of play and

2) Is it good to rebuy if you bust out.

Also, do the same standards apply to different tournaments (21, slots, craps, poker, etc.)



Generally speaking...

1. Yes.
2. Yes.

I think re-buys are a shake down and I generally don't do tournaments that allow them. It would not surprise me if many tournaments collect more in re-buy and extra-chip money than they give out as prize money. However, in every tournament I've seen, both are a good value, if you must play. You need all the ammunition you can get in a tournament and there is almost always an economy of scale in getting the extra chips. This goes for all types of tournaments, except maybe poker.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
gordonm888
gordonm888
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June 3rd, 2018 at 9:50:32 PM permalink
In the poker tournaments that I have been in (WSOP circuit and local games) the rebuys go into the prize pool the same as the initial buy-ins. In poker tournaments if you buy in for $365, $300 goes into the prize pool and $65 goes for the dealers and the other costs. If you rebuy for another $365, the split is the same: $300 goes into the prize pool.

The problem with poker rebuys is that you re-enter the poker tournament with a "starting chip stack" at a time where the average stack size is bigger than the starting stack size. So if I bust out at a point where only half the players are left and I rebuy, I am at a big chip disadvantage. It just doesn't seem to me like its a +EV move. I would only consider a poker re-buy if I busted out very early.
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
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June 3rd, 2018 at 9:59:50 PM permalink
Re-buy tournaments favor players, or their sponsors, with deep pockets. Just ask Negreanu.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
Wizard
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Wizard
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June 3rd, 2018 at 10:04:14 PM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

The problem with poker rebuys is that you re-enter the poker tournament with a "starting chip stack" at a time where the average stack size is bigger than the starting stack size. So if I bust out at a point where only half the players are left and I rebuy, I am at a big chip disadvantage. It just doesn't seem to me like its a +EV move. I would only consider a poker re-buy if I busted out very early.



I would say that if your skill level is significantly greater than your opponents or the cost of the re-buy is less than (total prize money)*(your stack)/(total chips in play + future chips put in play), then re-buy.

In other words, absent being blinded out or collusion, and assuming equal skill, your equity is proportional to your stack.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
GWAE
GWAE
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June 4th, 2018 at 5:13:28 AM permalink
I only play a rebuy tourney if I am willing to rebuy at least once. On my first buy in I play hyper aggressive. I am either doubling up or busting out in the first 30 minutes. If I bust then I rebuy and play "normal".
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed.

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