Poll

1 vote (5.55%)
2 votes (11.11%)
2 votes (11.11%)
3 votes (16.66%)
4 votes (22.22%)
1 vote (5.55%)
No votes (0%)
6 votes (33.33%)
No votes (0%)
1 vote (5.55%)

18 members have voted

Wizard
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July 5th, 2016 at 9:46:03 PM permalink
About two months ago I set out to improve upon my old series of craps videos, which I was never very happy with. Our own Ahigh conveniently has a craps table in his living room, which he let us use. There is so much to explain in craps that I broke it into five videos.

It was a major effort for my assitant Heather of vegas-aces.com to edit these videos but the first one is ready to preview.

Yes, I know that the glare from the backyard sliding glass door is just awful. At the time, I never even thought about it, but cameras are not so forgiving of glare as the human eye. When I complained about it to Heather she adjusted the color to remove some the glare but it seemed to give the video a more cartoony look and made Angela's dress a really deep blue color. If you were there, it was not so blindly blue. So, my apologies for that. In retrospect, I should have closed the blinds, but it is easy to Monday morning quarterback these things.

Before we announce the video to everybody, I welcome any feedback. In particular, is there anything in the close ups that doesn't match what I say. All the closes ups (B footage) was done weeks later. Keep in mind the footage is what it is and can't be changed, but we can edit out anything incorrect.

You may also recognize our old friend Ahigh as the stick man.

The question for the poll is what is your overall opinion of the video, for the purposes of what it is trying to do?

Last edited by: Wizard on Jul 6, 2016
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
sodawater
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July 5th, 2016 at 11:07:00 PM permalink
Too slow and boring, too much talking. Would edit this down to about 1/3 of the current length.
chaunceyb3
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July 6th, 2016 at 12:20:07 AM permalink
Still waiting on the pai gow tiles video, Mike. ⌚️
RonC
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July 6th, 2016 at 1:10:54 AM permalink
I liked the quality of the video a lot better than the other ones just going from memory, but it took way too long to get just the pass line bet part done. Perhaps some editing to quicken the pace--cut out some words, use a few more boxes like:

Rail = chips and anything else that belongs there
Shelf = drinks and ashtrays
Don't put valuables on the shelf--hold on to them...

I guess I am saying just get it all moving quicker...

I'll watch more later...
DeMango
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July 6th, 2016 at 4:06:46 AM permalink
I think all of us want to see 18 yo's in a row!
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
odiousgambit
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July 6th, 2016 at 4:30:09 AM permalink
Quote: RonC

I'll watch more later...



I need to do that too, so far it is an improvement.

some editing of slow moments is in order, such as when you were flabbergasted at Angela going double entendre about her rack.

A priceless moment for those of us enamored with Angela, and ready to chuckle [hate to say it] at your bashfulness, but for a better video your pause to take that it in should be shortened.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
Wizard
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July 6th, 2016 at 5:50:51 AM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

some editing of slow moments is in order, such as when you were flabbergasted at Angela going double entendre about her rack.

A priceless moment for those of us enamored with Angela, and ready to chuckle [hate to say it] at your bashfulness, but for a better video your pause to take that it in should be shortened.



Heather already editted down this portion of the video from about 45 minutes to the 23 you see now. Maybe it does seem boring to those who already know how to play. I've taught a lot of people to play craps at the actual tables and don't know if it is me or the game but it seems to take a while to just get anybody to understand how the pass bet works. Examples seem to help a lot, which is why we have so many.

Regarding the "clean rack" joke, she got me totally off guard with that one. As I recall, I went through some witty rejoinders in my head, but thought Angela might get offended, so opted to keep my mouth shut. We could cut out maybe five seconds of my awkward pause but I tend to like avoiding making cuts wherever possible.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Aussie
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July 6th, 2016 at 7:26:53 AM permalink
Definitely slow for those who already know the game but for the new player probably not. You're right about people taking a long time to understand the line. I've only ever met one person who picked it up pretty much right away. Everyone else took a while.
Wizard
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July 6th, 2016 at 9:33:48 AM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

A priceless moment for those of us enamored with Angela, and ready to chuckle [hate to say it] at your bashfulness, but for a better video your pause to take that it in should be shortened.



I was thinking about your comment on my unicycle ride this morning and remeber this awkward pause on Family Feud. It is probably one of the best moments in Family Feud history.

"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Wizard
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July 6th, 2016 at 10:23:02 AM permalink
Quote: chaunceyb3

Still waiting on the pai gow tiles video, Mike. ⌚️



Yes, I really want to do that one. I need to find someone who can deal the game to play the dealer.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
100xOdds
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July 6th, 2016 at 10:40:32 AM permalink
holy white hair Mike!
$2.4M has really aged you.

how about some Grecian formula. :)
unless you want to lure some people in w/prop bets about you climbing a rope in under 30sec?

and wow, Angela still works for you after all these years?

is that aligh in the video?
he looks a little short? or you're taller than I imagine?
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
DeMango
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July 6th, 2016 at 1:41:13 PM permalink
I think a tiles video would be the best, for those of us ignorant of the game.
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
odiousgambit
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July 6th, 2016 at 1:41:18 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

In particular, is there anything in the close ups that doesn't match what I say.



Didn't find those problems

Quote:

All the closes ups (B footage) was done weeks later. Keep in mind the footage is what it is and can't be changed, but we can edit out anything incorrect.



Is it also easy to add comment 'boxes'?

If so I have suggestions
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
kmumf
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July 6th, 2016 at 1:42:06 PM permalink
I liked it. Arron needs to smile looked like he was a tower guard at the end :).
GWAE
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July 6th, 2016 at 2:19:39 PM permalink
why does vegasaces.com go to betus?
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed. I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
GWAE
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July 6th, 2016 at 2:21:46 PM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

holy white hair Mike!
$2.4M has really aged you.

how about some Grecian formula. :)
unless you want to lure some people in w/prop bets about you climbing a rope in under 30sec?

and wow, Angela still works for you after all these years?

is that aligh in the video?
he looks a little short? or you're taller than I imagine?



Did you not read the OP where he said they were in Ahigh living room and Ahigh was the stick man?
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed. I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
VegasAces
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July 6th, 2016 at 2:34:32 PM permalink
Quote:

Is it also easy to add comment 'boxes'?



Yes, it's easy to add those comment boxes.



Quote:

why does vegasaces.com go to betus?



Because the link is www.vegas-aces.com
GWAE
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July 6th, 2016 at 2:43:55 PM permalink
Quote: VegasAces


Because the link is www.vegas-aces.com



Mr wizard, if you read this you should change that in your op.
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed. I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
100xOdds
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July 6th, 2016 at 3:14:39 PM permalink
Quote: GWAE

Did you not read the OP where he said they were in Ahigh living room and Ahigh was the stick man?


I thought he mentioned someone else as the stickman in the video?

and didn't know mike was that tall?
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
Wizard
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July 6th, 2016 at 3:51:45 PM permalink
To catch up:

Yes, Heather's site is vegas-aces.com. I corrected the OP. Sorry about that, Heather.

About my grey hair, I've quit coloring it. I've asked several women what they prefer more, colored brown or grey and they all say "grey." Then again, maybe they are just being nice and telling me what I want to hear.

Again, yes, that is Ahigh. I hope he won't mind me saying that he was not in the best of moods that day but also seemed to enjoy being the stick man. I wasn't originally going to have one, but he volunteered. There are hours of outakes of him correcting me on where exactly to place bets, how to stack the chips, and what some bets are even called. We will probably follow the five-video series with some of them. This video doesn't incorporate that much, but the otehrs will definitely be better for his comments. That man has truly put in hundreds of hours at the tables and knows all the nuances of how to play and deal it.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
DanMahoney
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July 6th, 2016 at 4:16:01 PM permalink
Great video but might be improved if the guys wear masks, similar to the great video at Ahigh's place made by two "so-called" Las Vegas DIs.
odiousgambit
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July 6th, 2016 at 5:07:19 PM permalink
Quote: kmumf

I liked it. Arron needs to smile looked like he was a tower guard at the end :).



I chuckled when Ahigh lets off a big yawn. Wizard must have woken him up when he showed up and knocked on the door.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
ontariodealer
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July 6th, 2016 at 7:00:41 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Yes, I really want to do that one. I need to find someone who can deal the game to play the dealer.



I feel an opportunity....all expenses paid??????
get second you pig
100xOdds
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July 6th, 2016 at 7:00:52 PM permalink
What does it mean when a player says 'hard 6&8 all day'?

Whats the 'all day' part do?
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
ontariodealer
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July 6th, 2016 at 7:07:16 PM permalink
wiz, the video is pretty good, depending on who your audience is it could be 5 min or 50 min.
get second you pig
GWAE
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July 6th, 2016 at 7:42:56 PM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

What does it mean when a player says 'hard 6&8 all day'?

Whats the 'all day' part do?



Normal hard eight instwas if hopping hard eight
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed. I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
FatGeezus
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July 7th, 2016 at 3:53:22 PM permalink
There are so many things wrong with this video.

5:56 throws an #11 but doesn't show pay off.
10:45 puts down 5 red chips
10:58 when the point is made the red chip is turn into one green chip.
11:50 after the point is made, it is never explained that you remain the shooter.
12:00 The new shooter picks up two dice and there are no chips on the pass line.
12:20 the point is 8
13:30 point #8 is not marked. The #10 is marked.
13:40 LET'S NOT BACK UP COME BET WITH ODDS.
14:00 The point #8 is made and it shows odds on the come #6
14:25 still showing odds on come #6
14:45 never says 7 will lose and he come bet odds will be returned.
15:38 shows 6 & 8 come bets with odds.
17:20 makes a come bet
17:20 THROWS ACES AND SAYS NOTHING HAPPENS. You just lost your come bet.
18:00 NOW you talk about odds on your come bets and the video already has shown odds on the come bets.
18:25 Point is #5 and it is not marked.
18:45 Point is #5 and the puck is off.

The end is totally confusing with #9 as a come bet and a pass bet. The point was 5.

hope this helps
RonC
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July 7th, 2016 at 4:16:34 PM permalink
I decided not to bother watching any further. The chances of me referring anyone to a set of five videos of this length (assuming they stay at 20 minutes or more) for them to learn craps are very low. I understand the low budget but it just isn't that good--it plods along at an impossibly slow pace.

I refer people to WoO all the time--live and on boards, but this just won't get that recommendation.

It seemed is if the initial criticism of the time issue was dismissed; that is too bad.
betwthelines
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July 7th, 2016 at 10:37:39 PM permalink
Quote: RonC

I decided not to bother watching any further. The chances of me referring anyone to a set of five videos of this length (assuming they stay at 20 minutes or more) for them to learn craps are very low. I understand the low budget but it just isn't that good--it plods along at an impossibly slow pace.

I refer people to WoO all the time--live and on boards, but this just won't get that recommendation.

It seemed is if the initial criticism of the time issue was dismissed; that is too bad.


sorry to say i agree with ronc here...i too would not recommend it

it is way too long....craps is NOT that complicated...done correctly even a newbie---assuming they WANT to actually understand the game (my own sense is that only about 20% of those that ask after it to dealers and others are genuinely interested in really knowing the game)---should be able to get the gist of most of the bets in ONE 20 minute video if succinctly and clearly explicated...

wiz, my perception here is that you are "talking down" to newbies much more than is really necessary....if one truly wants to learn, a concise explanation would suffice...you know the game much better than you seem to be letting on, frankly...ahigh knows the game...heather knows the game...lay it on us...stop mincing words, lol

the use of live rolls to explain the game is a good idea though.

Pass Line: "7, 11 wins immediately, 2, 3, 12 loses immediately on the first roll---called the come-out roll---any other number becomes the 'point' and must be rolled before a 7 to win. 7 loses" 34 words or less can explain EVERYTHING one needs to know about the pass bet....oh, sure, maybe preliminary commentary like "the pass bet can be won or lost in one roll or several rolls'' would add some clarity for a newbie but such is not technically crucial to explain the bet...again using real roll examples is good...

i was about 12 years old when i first started playing street craps...i had substantially learned this entire basic game ('course we didn't call it the pass "line", lol) after about 5 minutes of play...fifty-six years later i do not know any more about this basic idea of the game---how bets are won or lost---than i did after 5 minutes of play...

the same type of simple explanation of every bet on the layout can in turn be explained along with example rolls...

craps is not rocket science...it is not inherently complicated...but we can sure make it so...i try to tell newbies (only when i sense real interest) to, at first at least, not get "hung up" on the arcane terminology of the game---this is seemingly a real ROADBLOCK for many..."these are just bets!", i say, "you will either lose them or win them!"...if, for example, 6 is the point and the newbie wants to bet the 5, 8, 9, it is materially irrelevant that these are "inside"....telling the dealer to place the 5, 8 & 9 will quite suffice...the colorful idioms of the game add much fun, no question, & in fact are quite useful and efficient for smoothly booking bets but when just starting out, they can also be real sidetracks...

i realize that you are probably too far into it to turn back much but i think you are wise in seeking participant input with an eye to improving what is to come...

good luck,

tom p
"You can't EXPECT to win. But you CAN play Tough"...tom p, 1974
odiousgambit
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July 8th, 2016 at 3:12:51 AM permalink
I don't know, Tom, I think it is hard for someone like you, who actually got his feet wet with street craps, to know or maybe remember how intimidating it is for a newbie walking up to the table.

Take me for example. Somewhere I learned the basic idea about Craps before ever walking into a casino, which ultimately prompted me to give casino Bank Craps a try. My lack of knowledge about the Etiquette made this a disaster, although partly because I was newbie at all casino stuff. I figured you just had to have the guts and took the plunge. I didn't know how and when to buy in, what to do with my chips, took the dice back with me behind the rail before throwing, cupped the dice in both hands, didn't place a bet on the pass line before throwing, and just about everything that flips out the dealers. Nobody had told me to learn the etiquette first. The Wizard is trying to cover these things, so give him credit. I keep pressing him to do more - for example Angela asks if she can touch all 5 dice offered to the shooter - an excellent time to point out "but with one hand which never should come back past the rail"

So I think all the old timers generally just have a hard time putting themselves in the shoes of a beginner. I agree with you that the worst thing we can do is launch in to the complicated bets as if that is important to know for someone new to it.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
betwthelines
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July 9th, 2016 at 8:26:11 AM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

I don't know, Tom, I think it is hard for someone like you, who actually got his feet wet with street craps, to know or maybe remember how intimidating it is for a newbie walking up to the table.

Take me for example. Somewhere I learned the basic idea about Craps before ever walking into a casino, which ultimately prompted me to give casino Bank Craps a try. My lack of knowledge about the Etiquette made this a disaster, although partly because I was newbie at all casino stuff. I figured you just had to have the guts and took the plunge. I didn't know how and when to buy in, what to do with my chips, took the dice back with me behind the rail before throwing, cupped the dice in both hands, didn't place a bet on the pass line before throwing, and just about everything that flips out the dealers. Nobody had told me to learn the etiquette first. The Wizard is trying to cover these things, so give him credit. I keep pressing him to do more - for example Angela asks if she can touch all 5 dice offered to the shooter - an excellent time to point out "but with one hand which never should come back past the rail"

So I think all the old timers generally just have a hard time putting themselves in the shoes of a beginner. I agree with you that the worst thing we can do is launch in to the complicated bets as if that is important to know for someone new to it.



hey odi, your points are rational and well-taken here...though i can't say that i agree with ---or disagree with --- some of them....and i mean agree with or disagree with the same point at the same time! lol....riigghht...i'm already almost making sense...

when i was blathering on i was probably unfairly thinking of newbies that walk up to the rail and ask after the game to dealers or others...as i stated, my take on that is that only about 20% of the requesters are really, genuinely serious about learning the game...whereas you were---more appropriately--- directing your comments to an instructional video to be on the wizard of vegas site and where one might expect that substantially greater than 20% of those taking the time to go there would be genuinely interested...

well, i think too that you are underestimating my sense for the level of intimidation that newbs experience...like you, my own empathy is at a high level for them...indeed i am often dismayed---disturbed even sometimes---by the way newcomers are treated sometimes....the crew, especially should always be welcoming to potential new customers...sure they are busy, sometimes very busy, but there are still countless ways to handle the situation other than being quite rude to the prospect and there is no excuse otherwise IMO (this is one area where the suits do a better job in general than the crew, likely because they are less "busy", lol)...

and then of course there are the players who boorishly go off on the rookies for the slightest infraction of those shifting sands etiquette issues, many of which are of course themselves irrational and superstition based ("hands high" is a good idea...those dice are sharp as a knife and you can get cut! -- i've seen it even but for 95% of craps players that's not why they want you to keep your hands high...)...critical thinking and rationality are not exactly hallmarks of bank craps...lol...

but you are right...craps etiquette is something that does need to be covered here...

this is a challenging endeavor for the wiz and i applaud him for the effort and especially his seeking input on the project here....

still and all i say KISS...bank craps is not rocket science...

tom p
"You can't EXPECT to win. But you CAN play Tough"...tom p, 1974
RonC
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July 9th, 2016 at 8:47:50 AM permalink
I understand that craps can be intimidating, but taking 23 minutes to show the most basic bet makes it feel even more so to me. I do look at it as someone who just taught my son and a friend how to play--they were going on a cruise and you can play at 18--and the attention span is just not there to spend 20 minutes just to learn the very basic bets.

Ahigh, who I still wish to play craps with at some point, seemed bored of the whole thing. As excitable as he has been here about craps, I attribute that to him not having a good day. I think he would be very good on a good day... He knows he way around the table; this video does not bring it out. Maybe the later ones will...

I just think that a guy like the Wizard can do so much better than this without a huge budget.
betwthelines
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July 9th, 2016 at 4:51:05 PM permalink
Quote: RonC

I understand that craps can be intimidating, but taking 23 minutes to show the most basic bet makes it feel even more so to me. I do look at it as someone who just taught my son and a friend how to play--they were going on a cruise and you can play at 18--and the attention span is just not there to spend 20 minutes just to learn the very basic bets...


ron, i believe you have nailed it!...my contention has been that maybe only 1 in five or so of those who come up to the rail and ask about the game are actually truly interested...but your insight suggests to me that, hey, maybe much more than that are in fact genuinely curious but after the feeble, fumbling---sometimes even pathetic---attempts by usually a crew member to explicate the game, their attention is gone!

putting it that way actually amplifies, in my mind at least, my earlier contention that keeping it short, sweet, simple and succinct would be the most effective for these presentations...KISSSS!...

the millennials or generation z or whatever the hell they're called---most of the recent younger age groups, i mean, are notorious for having short attention spans...visuals changing/flashing every 3/10ths of a second on tv and in the movies play into this & whether that is cause or affect, or both i am not sure but imo it is not a good thing...oh, sure old farts like me of every generation worry after the ones that are the present and the future and think they are headed down the wrong path...or, ok, maybe armageddon is not around the corner, but losing focus so frequently cannot be good for critical thinking...

...so we wallow in fantasy and superstition, which is now even more dangerous than it was in the past, methinks...

tom p
-g. geist: i suggest you stick to the craps topic and take your simplistic, amateurish philosophizing somewhere else...
--tom p:
---g. geist: ...to a forum site for third-graders perhaps
----tom p:
-----g. geist: or maybe just take your meds
------tom p:
-------g. geist:
--------tom p: you're awfully harsh today...why'zhat?
---------g. geist:
"You can't EXPECT to win. But you CAN play Tough"...tom p, 1974
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