Break-in house dramas

How did you come up with 108 as your bet?

How did you come up with the proper payment?
How do they come up with an improper payment?

Quote: Deucekies

So I understand correctly:
1) You had a bet of 2 blacks and some red.
2) You won, and the dealer cut in to your stack with red.
3) The pit boss saw this seconds later, and thought the red stack was your bet, thinking the dealer OVERpaid you $190, when in fact he UNDERpaid you $190. I'm guessing the dealer cut in from the wrong side to give the pit boss that idea.

What I'd like to know:
1) Was your bet properly set up? Blacks on the bottom, reds on the top? Not mixed?
2) Did you at any point try to tell someone that you were underpaid?

What I have done and do most of the time when a red chip is covering a green or black chip, is offset the red chip so the camera's can see that i do indeed have a bigger denom chip on the bottom.
When the payout is made a tap and slide the stack out so for me and the camera to see that the stack i had was paid properly.
Ive been paid wrong ant several times, but most times i do NOT touch the stack but point, 'Hey I have 2 green chips under neath there....etc and they fix it.
The key would have been the film. They could of reviewed the film in this case right? or do Break in Joints not have cameras.?

VDC

Quote: VegasDiceController

What I have done and do most of the time when a red chip is covering a green or black chip, is offset the red chip so the camera's can see that i do indeed have a bigger denim chip on the bottom.

Isn't it proper to adjust the stack before teh dice roll and tell the player to properly stack his chips.?

Quote: AcesAndEights

After all that with the "dirty stack" you went back there and laid $108 behind the eight? What the fuck did you expect?

I'll say it, you are an ass.

There's a right and there's a wrong, and there's being a fucking jackass because you like to lord it over people so you can look big. What the fuck do you expect going in to these break-in joints and betting barber poles, turning your place bets on and off at your whimsy, basically just being an all around jackass? If you get shorted five bucks or a hundred and ninety bucks, you're getting what's coming to you. Ferchrisakes dude.

Here's what I expected: I expected them to hear directly from me that they all made a mistake simultaneously while they were all doing it again.

Everyone at the table with combined mental efforts couldn't pay a $108 lay just like they all with combined efforts couldn't pay me $115 for a barber pole come bet.

I just made the point to them that they couldn't do their job to them properly. This all happened nearly seven days to the hour from the previous mistake. The only difference was that they had a new employee dealing in the place where the fired employee was the previous week.

And just like I told them, "if you're certain I'll take your word for it" and let them take $190 from me I will tell you, if you're abiding by the rules of the forum, I can accept that I'm an ass.

Otherwise, you might want to check the forum rules.

Quote: RonC

Good thing their are lots of casinos in Vegas--you seem to get peeved at one of them every few weeks. Why not just enjoy gambling, watch your payouts, and not be so uptight about it?

It's a game, and I find the game entertaining. The fact that real people are working this game make it really fun actually.

They could take it personally if they wanted to, but hopefully they take it professionally and improve their skills at performing their job.

Honestly, people that have no interest in dealing craps shouldn't deal in my opinion. There are dealers who do have an interest that deserve the job more.

The Saturday Night crew at any craps table in Vegas, no matter what kind of break-in joint it is, should be the best crew they have available and ready to deal some action without mistakes to bring in some profit for the house. End of story!

This particular place could also solve their problem by making the max bet $30, I suppose. That's how they operate. Rote memorization on any bet $30 or less (except lays I suppose) and any conflict they assume that the player is trying to take a shot and don't do anything properly to resolve the conflict for lack of interest in doing their job with professionalism or courtesy.

Quote: FleaStiff

How did you come up with 108 as your bet?

How did you come up with the proper payment?
How do they come up with an improper payment?

I'd like to see the answer.

So you're smarter than a minimum wage rookie. Glad to see you're impressed with yourself.

Quote: Sabretom2

I'd like to see the answer.

So you're smarter than a minimum wage rookie. Glad to see you're impressed with yourself.

I started the bet as a $102 lay on the eight. After the first roll, I went to $108 on the bet by tossing in another $6 asking to "press the lay on the eight."

I made this bet thinking that a seven would occur before I rolled an eight. I was right. I only had a $5 pass line, and I had just previously won a $200 flat come bet that travelled to the six.

I saw the person on box do a 180 and walk away when I received the $400 in green chips for that come bet.

When the seven out was called she returned to watch the payment on the 108 lay.

The person on box told the dealer to break the bet into two separate bets to do the payment and I'm not sure how they came up with $85.

But I told them after they came up with $85 that they were short $5.

I verbally said, "$90 pays 75 and $18 pays 15. 75 plus 15 equals 90."

I had to say that at least twice and all the money at that point was between the pass line and the don't pass in front of me because they had already pushed it out to me.

No other money was on the felt at that time.

This is not about me being smarter than them. This about them making mistakes and all agreeing with themselves that they are right and believing things that aren't true.

Just because you believe something doesn't make it true.

The real issue is with the box person who is ultimately responsible to prevent this sort of thing from happening. I don't know what she gets paid, but there's a failure here to prevent things like this from happening.

The way that they are operating is to effectively cheat the player when in doubt.

That's pretty wrong IMO.

I don't do lay bets, so maybe I'm confused. When do you pay the 5% commission? 108*(5/6)*.95 = 85.5

Quote: miplet

I don't do lay bets, so maybe I'm confused. When do you pay the 5% commission? 108*(5/6)*.95 = 85.5

I gave the dealer $107 when I did the $102 lay.

$5 vig for $85 pay at that point. I could have pressed up to $120 without tossing in more vig.

If the bet gets taken down, the vig is returned as well in every joint that I've been in.

The places that do vig on the win on all lay bets:

(1) Fiesta Henderson
(2) Triple Sevens

Those are the only two I can think of. MGM properties do vig on the win for the four and ten and up front for inside numbers, as do a couple of other places (LVS I think).
It's still more than half the properties that require vig up front on all lay bets.

This dealer was new, but I know where they came from and they do vig up front on all lay bets. In addition, the property they came from requires a minimum of $10 win when you lay on the four or ten.

In addition, Tuscany (vig up front) requires lay bets win a minimum of $20.

There are many house rules that vary on lay bets in Vegas. It's one of those areas where even the dealers get confused because the rules do vary a great deal from one place to the next.

Quote: AcesAndEights

***rage rant redacted***.

Three days, loss of down, game misconduct, and a yellow card. Impressive.

Quote: Face

Three days, loss of down, game misconduct, and a yellow card. Impressive.

Just a hypothetical question. The names are changed to protect the innocent and the details are completely fictitious.

What if when someone rants and offends and personal attacks, but the information is true?

For example, what if I went into a casino and cheated, then robbed the cashier cage. People knew this to be true. Then someone on the forum calls be a cheating thief. Would that be a suspension? Isn't there some sort of clause for "if the shoe fits"?


ZCore13

Quote: Zcore13

Just a hypothetical question. The names are changed to protect the innocent and the details are completely fictitious.

What if when someone rants and offends and personal attacks, but the information is true?

For example, what if I went into a casino and cheated, then robbed the cashier cage. People knew this to be true. Then someone on the forum calls be a cheating thief. Would that be a suspension? Isn't there some sort of clause for "if the shoe fits"?


ZCore13

This Wiz addressed that specific issue during the turmoil immediately following the updated rules. A member made a derogatory comment about their self, and another member basically mirrored what was said. The mirroring of the comment, although true and spoken by a member first, was deemed by Wiz to be a ban-able offense.

*Jack Nicholson voice* "you can't handle the truth"

Face, is that the first suspension you've given?

Quote: 1BB

Face, is that the first suspension you've given?

I wish. If we counted spam / unapproved commercials, I'd be leading the league ;) I think I've just benefited by being the heavy when the breach is severe and obvious (and therefore not newsworthy), as well as talking a lot of them out in lieu of dropping the ban hammer.

Either way, I take your uncertainty as a compliment =)

Aaron, next time drop $120 + the $5 for the VIG and Lay it for $120 to Win $100. IMO if someone struggles to make a weird payout, make it as RIGHT as possible. $30/$60/$90, $120/$150 Lays on 6 and 8. Its like making a PB on the 8 for $84. Its just not really proper. If you can afford $84 bet throw out $6 more to get to $90 for Christ Sake. KISS Rule...

Part of being a Craps player is playing with Proper Etiquette and Grace. It's an energy thing as well. Id be bent if i had hard earned $$$ at the table and this happened and it turned into an argument where you make your claim and the house makes theirs and meanwhile all the Do Side Play just got killed. Good thing it was a 7 out and not a CO7. I bet if it was a C.O 7, you'd see that 7 out show within 3 rolls. When I'm playing do side play, the last thing I want to see is a disruption and shift in Energy at the table.

Quote:

Part of being a Craps player is playing with Proper Etiquette and Grace.

Only if you choose to make it so.

The mind (and its earthly operative, the mouth) can make a heaven of hell, or a hell of heaven.

There are individuals who approach the casino and its employees as "the enemy," and adopt a confrontational, "let's pin the tail on these donkeys" type of mindset.

Fine, that's not illegal.

But it ain't right.

Life is short; be cool.

Dance the way you want to, just don't step on anyone's toes.

Quote: MrV

But it ain't right

Next time you see me, you should say hello.

Quote: Ahigh

Next time you see me, you should say hello.

Why would he want to?


ZCore13

Quote:

Part of being a Craps player is playing with Proper etiquette and Grace.

Quote: MrV

Only if you choose to make it so.

Is there a social compact involved? Players often choose a pleasant, refined atmosphere over that of a Sweat The Money "us versus them" casino.

I think given the chance most players would choose a "No Shot Takers" crap game, just as most players would also choose a "no quibbling" over proper play at a black jack table.

Yet....... gambling is changing. "Vegas" is loosing its lustre and its lure. Nightclubs disgorge drunks into the casino. Yuppies are there for pool parties but every now and then will wash the sun screen off and put some clothes on and go into the casino. The slots are no longer the exclusive zone of the Geritol set. A new demographics is emerging and perhaps a new social compact.

I mentioned earlier about ants stroking aphids for nectar as an allusion to obnoxious players stroking dealers for the player's psychological satisfaction. Do we have the state of nature in a casino? Or do we have a more civilized approach?

Some casinos foster an "us versus them" atmosphere and dealers don't help players. Eons ago, when rules were different, one Vegas craps dealer went on break and telephoned the casino with a Doctor's Page for a craps player who had just left the craps table. The puzzled conventioneer picked up the white courtesy phone and heard a cryptic message: Return to the craps table you just left and ask to be shown a 'such and such' progression'. The conventioneering doctor did so, and the craps dealers showed him how to put a five hundred dollar bet next to his five thousand dollar bet on the pass line and how to do some fancy stuff with the six and the eight. The ecstatic doctor wound up making 34 grand on the roll and knew which casino and which dealers he would be playing with on all future medical conventions in Vegas. At the time it was against the rules for dealers to solicit bets for themselves or give information they had not been directly asked for.

Things change. At one time it was an automatic write up if a dealer at Caesars spoke to a passerby, now many casinos require such courtesies. Fist bumping is becoming common place although I think its wrong to encourage or permit it.

So perhaps its a valid point: Are break in houses fair game for shot takers and barber pole artists? Or is it an obligation on the part of both players and dealers to learn not only the rules of the game but the rules of etiquette as well? Strokers are generally not welcomed anywhere or are things changing there too? That old Gambino boat out of West Palm Beach used to have a character who would argue about every third roll. It got to be annoying and the shot taker just make things unpleasant for me so I stopped taking that Day Cruise. I understand the night cruises were more dignified but rather than find out, I just stopped going on that boat at all and soon thereafter the entire boat started going into disrepair. Was everyone avoiding an undesired atmosphere?

Quote: Zcore13

Why would he want to?

What kind of a question is that?

Quote: Ahigh

What kind of a question is that?

Look there are a bunch of people who have an image of themselves that doesn't match the image they portray in real life.

For you, I have no idea what you're like in real life.

But for MrV, there's quite a contrast. That's my point.

Get real!

You haven't even shown up to any events for this forum that I have been to. You might as well live in Germany and speak another language you are so far removed from Las Vegas.

All I'm saying is that in real life, this MrV guy is not really anybody's buddy that I can tell, and here he is talking like the world should be a big happy place.

It's a joke.

This whole thread is about stuff actually going on in real life here in Las Vegas.

Not some idealized fantasy land in your head.

But when we do have the WOV meetings, there's a pretty certain amount of what I would refer to as "resolving things" that occurs when it comes to interpreting the things that are said on this forum and how they should be interpreted.

The thing you don't understand is nobody respects how you act or how you play and you don't seem to be able to see it. Making life difficult for people is your hobby. Harassing people is fun for you. Talking bad about other peoples business (including this site in the past) and how they run them is second nature to you.

Nobody wants to meet you and that has nothing to do with you living in Las Vegas and others not. If I had the unpleasant opportunilty to meet you at a WOV event, nothing would change. There are no mis-communications. No matter how much you tell yourself the opposite, you're not special. Your 15 minutes of fame is long gone. Your website is dead. Your theories on shady Casinos and dice influencing have long been dismissed and laughed at. You take pleasure it trying to bully and intimidate people.

Casinos don't want you to play at their games. The majority of members here have no interest in your delusions. I'm sure your new employer has begun to see through your facade. The stock holders sure have.

Oh and look. You edited your post again after the fact. But I already knew you would so I saved your original one so I would be responding to what you actually said, not false innocence you would profess.

You should be nuked from this site never to return.


ZCore13

Quote: Ahigh

What kind of a question is that?

What happened to your original post? Changed it again after some people had time to read it but before a Mod could see it. Sorry, can't pull that one any more.


ZCore13

Perhaps it is appropriate for me to clarify some comments I made back on page #1 of this thread. There I noted that I had shared a craps table with Ahigh back in April and described some things he did/does that tick off the dealers but which also provide Ahigh with additional entertainment, perhaps because it does tick off the dealers.

I did not say that Ahigh was ticking me off. While I don't participate in the same "extra entertainment" activities, I have found that Ahigh is quite pleasant to the other players at the table. In fact, I don't think I have ever seen him do anything (in person) to tick off anyone except a dealer. I have dined with him on at least three group gatherings, and MrV was with us on at least two of those. I did not see any conflict between Ahigh and anyone at any of those occasions. I don't recall whether Ahigh and MrV spoke with each other, but since there was a lot of interaction all around, I suspect that they did, and did so quite pleasantly.

Quote: Sonny44

Ahigh said, "You got it right. I had $10 coming and $105 odds. I took my odds stack and put it on top of my come stack." I'm not understanding something about this situation. If the come had traveled to a number, would not the dealer have put the odds on top of the flat bet? I thought it was impossible for a player to do this. Maybe I'm dense.

I'm curious about this too - in what scenario does a player stack his odds on the come bet? I always thought the dealer did this....

"All I'm saying is that in real life, this MrV guy is not really anybody's buddy that I can tell, and here he is talking like the world should be a big happy place."

I never said or implied that.

I said: "Life is short; be cool.

Dance the way you want to, just don't step on anyone's toes."

What I care about is how we interact in immediate proximity to one another, e.g. at a craps table.

It doesn't bother me if a player is happy or sad, just so long as he doesn't annoy me or the dealers and screw up the flow of the game.

Just be cool, i.e. don't mess with me or what I am doing; go about your business, I'll go about mine.

Craps is a casino game, it ain't life.

There is plenty of time for drama and petty power games away from the tables.

Quote: Zcore13

The thing you don't understand is nobody respects how you act or how you play and you don't seem to be able to see it. Making life difficult for people is your hobby. Harassing people is fun for you. Talking bad about other peoples business (including this site in the past) and how they run them is second nature to you.

Nobody wants to meet you and that has nothing to do with you living in Las Vegas and others not. If I had the unpleasant opportunilty to meet you at a WOV event, nothing would change. There are no mis-communications. No matter how much you tell yourself the opposite, you're not special. Your 15 minutes of fame is long gone. Your website is dead. Your theories on shady Casinos and dice influencing have long been dismissed and laughed at. You take pleasure it trying to bully and intimidate people.

Casinos don't want you to play at their games. The majority of members here have no interest in your delusions. I'm sure your new employer has begun to see through your facade. The stock holders sure have.

Oh and look. You edited your post again after the fact. But I already knew you would so I saved your original one so I would be responding to what you actually said, not false innocence you would profess.

You should be nuked from this site never to return.


ZCore13

This.

Quote: andyg99

I'm curious about this too - in what scenario does a player stack his odds on the come bet? I always thought the dealer did this....

He took the odds off his already established pass line bet and put them on top of a brand new come bet that had not yet traveled.

Quote: Zcore13

The thing you don't understand is nobody respects how you act or how you play and you don't seem to be able to see it. Making life difficult for people is your hobby. Harassing people is fun for you. Talking bad about other peoples business (including this site in the past) and how they run them is second nature to you.

Nobody wants to meet you and that has nothing to do with you living in Las Vegas and others not. If I had the unpleasant opportunilty to meet you at a WOV event, nothing would change. There are no mis-communications. No matter how much you tell yourself the opposite, you're not special. Your 15 minutes of fame is long gone. Your website is dead. Your theories on shady Casinos and dice influencing have long been dismissed and laughed at. You take pleasure it trying to bully and intimidate people.

Casinos don't want you to play at their games. The majority of members here have no interest in your delusions. I'm sure your new employer has begun to see through your facade. The stock holders sure have.

Oh and look. You edited your post again after the fact. But I already knew you would so I saved your original one so I would be responding to what you actually said, not false innocence you would profess.

You should be nuked from this site never to return.

Wow!

Seriously ROFL Zcore. You have really outdone yourself with this one.

The kicker here is that he's proud of the fact that he makes life as difficult as possible for the dealer every time, and then he expresses surprise when something like this happens.

Quote: Deucekies

The kicker here is that he's proud of the fact that he makes life as difficult as possible for the dealer every time, and then he expresses surprise when something like this happens.

Exactly. Sad.

ZCore13

Quote: Zcore13

Exactly. Sad.

Don't pretend you care. It's pretty transparent the disdain you have for me.

Quote: Doc

Perhaps it is appropriate for me to clarify some comments I made back on page #1 of this thread. There I noted that I had shared a craps table with Ahigh back in April and described some things he did/does that tick off the dealers but which also provide Ahigh with additional entertainment, perhaps because it does tick off the dealers.

I did not say that Ahigh was ticking me off. While I don't participate in the same "extra entertainment" activities, I have found that Ahigh is quite pleasant to the other players at the table. In fact, I don't think I have ever seen him do anything (in person) to tick off anyone except a dealer. I have dined with him on at least three group gatherings, and MrV was with us on at least two of those. I did not see any conflict between Ahigh and anyone at any of those occasions. I don't recall whether Ahigh and MrV spoke with each other, but since there was a lot of interaction all around, I suspect that they did, and did so quite pleasantly.

Thanks for your message Doc. We always have fun every time I remember hanging out with you.

Ahigh, I don't think anyone here questions your devotion to, or experience with craps, but these threads leave me scratching my head. You as a local understandably seek out experienced and competent dealers of the game, but where do you think they come from?

It seems to me you took the firing of a dealer as some sort of public service, but breaking balls or getting dealers fired from break-in joints serves no purpose. These are the guys (and gals) that are trying to get gigs on the strip...they're learning. If it's a break-in joint, for God's sake, give them a chance to break in.

[edited for comma usage(!)]

Quote: Zcore13

The thing you don't understand is nobody respects how you act or how you play and you don't seem to be able to see it. Making life difficult for people is your hobby. Harassing people is fun for you. Talking bad about other peoples business (including this site in the past) and how they run them is second nature to you.

Nobody wants to meet you and that has nothing to do with you living in Las Vegas and others not. If I had the unpleasant opportunilty to meet you at a WOV event, nothing would change. There are no mis-communications. No matter how much you tell yourself the opposite, you're not special. Your 15 minutes of fame is long gone. Your website is dead. Your theories on shady Casinos and dice influencing have long been dismissed and laughed at. You take pleasure it trying to bully and intimidate people.

Casinos don't want you to play at their games. The majority of members here have no interest in your delusions. I'm sure your new employer has begun to see through your facade. The stock holders sure have.

Oh and look. You edited your post again after the fact. But I already knew you would so I saved your original one so I would be responding to what you actually said, not false innocence you would profess.

You should be nuked from this site never to return.

I lost count of the number of personal insults in there. Seven-day suspension.

It seems that the only posts I've ever read from zcore are directed at Ahigh, putting him down. I'll shoot craps with Ahigh any time. The most fun I've had in my 20+ years of playing craps was last fall when we played literally night and day for 3 days straight. Not once during that marathon session did he disrespect a dealer, stick or box man. I'll be back in a couple of months to do it again!

Quote: JB85

Not once during that marathon session did he disrespect a dealer, stick or box man.

Good to hear. I've not been looking at who the posters have been, I've just been reading the posts and it seems there has been confusion as to what is oft-called 'stroking'.

None of it should have been taking place. And accusations of it may or may not have been proper but if so should have been owned up to.

I don't know why threads have to degenerate into such bickering. Its distracting.

Quote: Zcore13

The thing you don't understand is nobody respects how you act or how you play and you don't seem to be able to see it. Making life difficult for people is your hobby. Harassing people is fun for you. Talking bad about other peoples business (including this site in the past) and how they run them is second nature to you.

Nobody wants to meet you and that has nothing to do with you living in Las Vegas and others not. If I had the unpleasant opportunilty to meet you at a WOV event, nothing would change. There are no mis-communications. No matter how much you tell yourself the opposite, you're not special. Your 15 minutes of fame is long gone. Your website is dead. Your theories on shady Casinos and dice influencing have long been dismissed and laughed at. You take pleasure it trying to bully and intimidate people.

Casinos don't want you to play at their games. The majority of members here have no interest in your delusions. I'm sure your new employer has begun to see through your facade. The stock holders sure have.

Oh and look. You edited your post again after the fact. But I already knew you would so I saved your original one so I would be responding to what you actually said, not false innocence you would profess.

You should be nuked from this site never to return.


ZCore13

I don't agree.

I personally am polite to a fault, and I don't like disrespect where it doesn't belong or rudeness but that is probably just the way I was raised.

I found this site and come mainly for craps topics. When Ahigh goes away the threads are far and few between. So far apart in fact I even read a bac thread whew, made me glad I'm just a dice player.

To me anyway he has put out some posts that helped me think or look differently [for instance crapless] and I want to look at the game from as many angles as I can find. Let me throw a shout out to VDC, lately he's had some good posts as well. I don't often play much on the dark side so seeing it through both these guys eyes helps with my mental process of the game. I don't see anyone else doing that much? Even if I disagree with they're strategy, it makes me think and consider what they say. So at least on the forum he does way more good then harm. It seems there are a lot of floor personal, secuurity, dealers who usually just default to the house's position without considering how some of those positions effect their bread and butter, the player.

When I'm at a table and tossing and some stick says hit the back wall with both dice when it is perfectly obvious that that is what just happened they lesson my experience at the game and make me not want to play there. When I set and launch in 3 seconds flat and the stick or box says come on your slowing down the game. Nobody says one word in my defense that the crew at best was just inaccurate. Ahigh doesn't even play where I play and the dealers are surly, often rude and make plenty of mistakes, so that can't be his fault. To correct one of them is to risk the rest of the game as they take it personally, then they go to short sticking and getting mouthy. Again who says anything? Do you want to tell me that is the floor managements job? Ok, so it is. How much of my life do I want to spend trying to fix the common attitude at these joints?

So, the box doesn't fix the errors or the thinking and treat it like a one time occurence and it seems to be a genre of the way it will be. Ahigh is often providing a service by thought challenging these break in dealers or whomever. The less experienced dealers I've played have a difficult time getting right side bets accurate, who is going to get them to think about the other bets the house is offering?

It also seems like there is a block function on the forum, if you have a problem with Ahighs posts and particulary if you don't play craps, use it.

Thanks for the support, guys.

Quote: petroglyph

When I'm at a table and tossing and some stick says hit the back wall with both dice when it is perfectly obvious that that is what just happened they lesson my experience at the game and make me not want to play there. When I set and launch in 3 seconds flat and the stick or box says come on your slowing down the game. Nobody says one word in my defense that the crew at best was just inaccurate. Ahigh doesn't even play where I play and the dealers are surly, often rude and make plenty of mistakes, so that can't be his fault. To correct one of them is to risk the rest of the game as they take it personally, then they go to short sticking and getting mouthy. Again who says anything? Do you want to tell me that is the floor managements job? Ok, so it is. How much of my life do I want to spend trying to fix the common attitude at these joints?

Frankly I think you should speak up rather than tolerate a bad attitude from them, but it is your decision.
Although it was at a Bacarat table, a dealer did call all the players "cork suckers" and the Floor not only didn't write him up, he seconded the description. A new crop of dealers entitled to tips just might be getting a bit surly. I don't know.

Quote: FleaStiff

Frankly I think you should speak up rather than tolerate a bad attitude from them, but it is your decision.
Although it was at a Bacarat table, a dealer did call all the players "cork suckers" and the Floor not only didn't write him up, he seconded the description. A new crop of dealers entitled to tips just might be getting a bit surly. I don't know.

Each is an individual call. Some I'm willing to discuss with them some not. I do a risk reward comparison before making the choice. I've went both ways on incorrect pays, if it's a dollar or so and I want the flow to continue I find it easier to let it go. A buck or two is a rounding error or a water.

I've discussed the short throw phenomenon with them but that hasn't helped me at all and doesn't seem worth getting them to roll the tape, to what purpose?

I had one the other day and I was watching him, his eyes didn't even follow the dies to the end but he was telling me to hit the wall. Funny, I could see no way to win that one.

I have a limited number of tables to play and pick when and where carefully. I keep my games fairly short. Trying to dance like a butterfly and sting like a bee. Well thats my story anyway.

I'm a red chip player and it is near impossible to get any respect at that level of play. It seems at times I am more of a nuisance as I will come in on an empty table and disturb an ongoing bs session.

On the "corksucker" or any derogatory name calling, that would light me up pretty good. I wasn't talking that kind of rude, that is really not funny or acceptable.

I'll go toe to toe but it is a lot like burning the bridge behind me, it's a small pond.

Fix their attitude? Hell, I couldn't even get my teens to listen back in the day. Maybe I'm just a magnet for unhappy dealers. I want to play for one hour, what do you think would be better. To try and fix them or get a game in somewhere else?

Quote: petroglyph

Each is an individual call.

Yes. And also varies by the player's mood at the time.

>I was watching him, his eyes didn't even follow the dies to the end but he was telling me to hit the wall.
> Funny, I could see no way to win that one.
If by sight or sound they think it was a short roll, they have to intone that darned warning. Its not as if we don't know the rules, its just our arms get tired sometimes but they have their all important memorandums.

>I'm a red chip player and it is near impossible to get any respect at that level of play
It shouldn't be. An honest red chip player should be more fun for them than a shot taking black chipper.

>It seems at times I am more of a nuisance as I will come in on an empty table and disturb an ongoing bs session.
Ah, ... be careful about whether its near the end of a shift. An empty dice table with a bs session going can be the sign that they've all signed the EO list so as to get an Early Out at the six hour point instead of finishing their shift. Feel free to ask point blank and if they say yes, they are just waiting for "the word", go play at a different table and let the employees leave who really want to leave, because if they have any players they will lost their option for an Early Out. If they take an early out they are waiving tips from the final hour or two ... so that means they really want to get out of there. If they are that anxious, I tend not to keep them.

Good point, FleaStiff. (If you actually care and/or want to be courteous) then ask the crew if you mind if you start up the game. Generally they won't flat-out deny it (although some will). If they're on the EO list and ready to go home, or really don't feel like dealing, they might make a comment like "Why don't you play at the table over there [with other players] [with $x minimum] [that table's been hot all day] [this table been cold all day]."

Then again, most of the time, dealers who are standing dead don't want to start up a game. It's not such a pain in the ass to deal to one player....but once a game gets started, people start flocking over. So it's not that they don't want to deal to you, per se, but they don't want to get 10 others at the table because of you starting the game up.

I am not going to get involved in this little rant except to say I face palmed many times reading the updates to this thread.

Quote: Paradigm

I am not going to get involved in this little rant except to say I face palmed many times reading the updates to this thread.

Yeah? I used to work for a place called Paradigm.

Quote: Paradigm

I am not going to get involved in this little rant except to say I face palmed many times reading the updates to this thread.

I'm having a hard time with this thread as well. I have mentioned several times over the past year how much I dislike being at a table when there's an argument between player(s) and dealer(s), and I will generally color up rather than be an unwilling witness. So I'm not encouraged at all to read how Ahigh (by his own description) makes things difficult on purpose, because that's the kind of thing that spirals into a mistrust of all players, more onerous procedures, dealers who hate their jobs, and less friendly resolution of problems or mistakes when they do come up. This board is covered with anecdotes about people getting shockingly bad customer service, casinos tightening up, all the rest; makes it hard to blame them when I see a regular player setting up dealers to fail like Ahigh describes himself doing, just for his own amusement.

Sorry, Ahigh; I enjoyed lunch with you, and I appreciated that you were making an effort to help new craps players with your videos, but I can't agree that you're doing anything but harming the game you love with this stuff. A&8 and Zcore may have expressed themselves profanely and insultingly, but I also think they were honest and on target in criticizing your activities. Assuming you posted all this to generate a discussion, that's my POV.

Well it all boils down to here is Las Vegas you have choices you don't have to play in a breaking house, you don't have to deal with bad dealers. You can always walk across the street and find a better casino to play in. There is no reason to give the dealers a hard time in a break in house.

Think about it this way, how would you like to stand there eight hours a day. It's not the best job in the world, but it puts food on the tables for a lot of people that didn't get a good education, and couldn't find a decent paying job anywhere else!
Some people enjoy having their type of fun at others' expense! I can't see any fun in belittling anybody! I damn sure wouldn't make a game out of it, by going to break in house and giving the new dealers a hard time! Then I don't play craps so I can hassle dealers or other players!

Sure there are a lot of dealers that love to hassle players now days, maybe because they hate their job, or they have ran into a player that gets their rocks off tormenting the dealers. For what ever reason it is, you don't have to play in that casino, just leave!
There are a lot of dealers now days that don't care how they handle the game they are dealing, they know at the end of the week they will still make their money from the tips that the hard working dealers made, when they were friendly, helpful, and did their job the way it should be done!

Tip sharing killed good dealers, they now go to work like robots, standing there for eight hours a day hoping that they do not have to do any work, you know you have a problem when you hear to dealers talking about their early outs!

If I find a bad dealer on the table that I'm playing on I just stop toking and let the rest of the dealers know why they will no longer be getting tokes as long as the bad dealer is on the table. If the other dealers can't straighten them out, what chance do you have by acting as badly as them?

Quote: beachbumbabs

Sorry, Ahigh; I enjoyed lunch with you, and I appreciated that you were making an effort to help new craps players with your videos, but I can't agree that you're doing anything but harming the game you love with this stuff. A&8 and Zcore may have expressed themselves profanely and insultingly, but I also think they were honest and on target in criticizing your activities. Assuming you posted all this to generate a discussion, that's my POV.

I respect your opinion and the opinions of others, even Zcore. The table was empty at the time this occurred. Generally ALL of my big action play occurs at an empty table. There are very few exceptions. When I play on a full table, I typically bet very small, and I play to be social.

When I am gambling on my own toss with high dollar amounts on an empty table, it's not the game that most of you folks are familiar with.

And I do challenge the dealers, and I do expect them do be interested in their jobs and not whine and whimper and complain.

I do occasionally bet bigger on a table with other green or black chip action, and in that case, I bet more in a standard way. But the take-away here is that there isn't just one way to play the game, and that's part of what makes the game fascinating.

Quote: Beardgoat

*Jack Nicholson voice* "you can't handle the truth"

Hey that's my line!