Since 23 thru 27 times is 7 to 10 times above the expected average, I would expect the board to show an equal amount of occurences of a 7 thru 10 times the 7 has hit in the last 100 rolls (i.e. the same number below the average as I've seen above the average. But I've never seen it that low. The lowest I've seen it is 15 times of the last 100 rolls).

My question is: Is this an acceptable rate for the 7 to be showing (i.e. if different from the norm of 16.67% then it is more likely higher rather than lower)? Or is the fact that the 7 is the most common outcome make it more likely to be higher than the norm than below the norm?

Or, since most bettors are place or pass line bettors, could the machine be purposely skewed (i.e. cheating the players).

Can someone with a statistics background let me know if what I observe (more than likely chance of the % of 7's hitting is above the norm than below the norm or 16.67%) is unusual or acceptable?

I've seen this over a 9 month period at random times in 2 different casinos (Empire City in Yonkers NY and Resort World in Queens NY)

Thanks,

Bob

looks fine to meQuote:bobgioMy question is:

Is this an acceptable rate for the 7 to be showing

(i.e. if different from the norm of 16.67% then it is more likely higher rather than lower)?

Or is the fact that the 7 is the most common outcome make

it more likely to be higher than the norm than below the norm?

at the 2SD point.

anything is possible,Quote:bobgioOr, since most bettors are place or pass line bettors,

could the machine be purposely skewed (i.e. cheating the players).

but I say not probable

due to any type of honest cheating.

The binomial probability distribution is positively skewed at 0.1789

the data

23 looks to be the 13th highest.

x prob[X=x] prob[X<x] prob[X>=x] prob[X<=x] prob[X>x]

5 0.00029090 0.00009402 0.99990598 0.00038492 0.99961508

6 0.00092119 0.00038492 0.99961508 0.00130612 0.99869388

7 0.00247406 0.00130612 0.99869388 0.00378018 0.99621982

8 0.00575219 0.00378018 0.99621982 0.00953237 0.99046763

9 0.01176004 0.00953237 0.99046763 0.02129241 0.97870759

10 0.02140327 0.02129241 0.97870759 0.04269568 0.95730432

11 0.03502354 0.04269568 0.95730432 0.07771922 0.92228078

12 0.05195158 0.07771922 0.92228078 0.12967080 0.87032920

13 0.07033445 0.12967080 0.87032920 0.20000525 0.79999475

14 0.08741567 0.20000525 0.79999475 0.28742092 0.71257908

15 0.10023663 0.28742092 0.71257908 0.38765755 0.61234245

16 0.10650142 0.38765755 0.61234245 0.49415898 0.50584102

17 0.10524847 0.49415898 0.50584102 0.59940744 0.40059256

18 0.09706247 0.59940744 0.40059256 0.69646992 0.30353008

19 0.08378024 0.69646992 0.30353008 0.78025016 0.21974984

20 0.06786200 0.78025016 0.21974984 0.84811215 0.15188785

21 0.05170438 0.84811215 0.15188785 0.89981653 0.10018347

22 0.03713314 0.89981653 0.10018347 0.93694967 0.06305033

23 0.02518596 0.93694967 0.06305033 0.96213563 0.03786437

24 0.01616099 0.96213563 0.03786437 0.97829662 0.02170338

25 0.00982588 0.97829662 0.02170338 0.98812250 0.01187750

26 0.00566878 0.98812250 0.01187750 0.99379128 0.00620872

27 0.00310733 0.99379128 0.00620872 0.99689861 0.00310139

28 0.00162025 0.99689861 0.00310139 0.99851886 0.00148114

29 0.00080454 0.99851886 0.00148114 0.99932340 0.00067660

30 0.00038081 0.99932340 0.00067660 0.99970422 0.00029578

0.06305033 or about 1 in 16

the chance of 10 or less is (5th column)

0.04269568 or about 1 in 24

of course the machine is showing you a window to the last 100 rolls.

that window moves each roll so you may see

a certain # of 7s stay there for some time until they finally drop out of the last 100 rolls.

Thanks for sharing your observation and questions

hope this helps

Quote:bobgio

My question is: Is this an acceptable rate for the 7 to be showing (i.e. if different from the norm of 16.67% then it is more likely higher rather than lower)? Or is the fact that the 7 is the most common outcome make it more likely to be higher than the norm than below the norm?

Or, since most bettors are place or pass line bettors, could the machine be purposely skewed (i.e. cheating the players).

Can someone with a statistics background let me know if what I observe (more than likely chance of the % of 7's hitting is above the norm than below the norm or 16.67%) is unusual or acceptable?

I've seen this over a 9 month period at random times in 2 different casinos (Empire City in Yonkers NY and Resort World in Queens NY)

Thanks,

Bob

How acceptable it is really depends on the number of observations you have taken.

It could be rigged, but I doubt it, especially if it's a unit used in casinos in other states like Nevada.

Quote:bobgio...The lowest I've seen it is 15 times of the last 100 rolls).

How many sets of 100 rolls did you actually observe?

Quote:bobgio

My question is: Is this an acceptable rate for the 7 to be showing (i.e. if different from the norm of 16.67% then it is more likely higher rather than lower)? Or is the fact that the 7 is the most common outcome make it more likely to be higher than the norm than below the norm?

Again it would depend on how many 100 roll observations you made. And it doesn't matter whether the observations were higher or lower than the norm. You would actually never see exactly the norm. You would always expect to see higher or lower results than the norm.

But if you are convinced, go to the Darkside, sir.

Quote:bobgioI've noticed on an electronic craps machine (where the dice are "rolled" by bouncing them on a drum that is vibrated) that whenever I look at the statistics showing the number of times a 7 is rolled in the last 100 rolls, I have noticed that it's more often than not 23 thru 27 times out of the last 100 rolls than 7 through 10 times. The average should be 16 or 17 (since the average # of times a 7 is rolled is should be statistically 16.67%).

I've played those Interblock machines at RW and Empire a number of times. They are not skewed by the Casino. Over time, all the numbers will roll normally, but one or two numbers or sequences seem to get hot before turning very cold. Consequently, the tote board might show the eight rolled fourteen times in 100 rolls, but it does not show that seven of those fourteen hits occurred within a fifteen roll span.

Could the Bubble be too small to adequately shake the three dice (one for Sic-Bo) it contains?

On many occasions I saw one crowded die simply vibrating in place or flopping from side to side between the same two numbers.

I've seen the Seven roll seven times consecutively on two occasions. I've also seen all three dice roll the same 5,2,3 twice in a row, and the Six and Eight roll back to back five times in a row.

I've also seen and the Seven roll only three times in 100 rolls while the Twelve rolled eight times and the Two rolled five times in the same 100 roll period.

All of these events are statistically possible, but I question whether these results were truly random or due to the dice not being adequately shaken in the bubble.

A few Regulars at RW make nothing but Place, Buy, Hardway, Yo and Craps bets based solely upon the tote board results.

One regular sitting next to me once said "Why aren't you Placing the Nine? Look at the board. It's like reading a book. They're telling you what to bet."

It was good advice.

As for me, I stay away from those Robots and prefer to "shake-em" at the real tables.

Quote:TankoOne regular sitting next to me once said "Why aren't you Placing the Nine? Look at the board. It's like reading a book. They're telling you what to bet."

Gee, for some reason having "them" tell you what to bet doesnt seem to work out. Well, of course, I can't really confirm that the old veteran wasn't getting rich by thinking the past predicted the future in craps, but it does fit perfectly into the category of "gambler's fallacy".

If you can truly see that you will have "one crowded die simply vibrating in place" then maybe you have something. Since you'd rather be at a real table, you'll forgive me for thinking it would not seem you could place your bet in time to take advantage of it.

I hope you at leastQuote:TankoI recorded these rolls during my last visit:

8,3,4,11,3,8,10,10,3,6,5,6,6,7,6,9,2,5,6,5,7,7,5,9,7,6,10,7,7,11,3,8,11,9,9,8,9,4,6,8,6,8,8,12,11,10,8,6,3,6,9,7,7,8,10,10,8,7,8,8,9,9,8,

5,7,8,5,10,11,10,7,2,6,6,9,8,10,8,4,8,9,4,7,9,8,3,9,10,9,10,6,9,5,6,7,5,7,8,10,6,11,8,2,8,3,11,5,9,12,8,8,8,8,6,7

played the pass with some kind of odds. I think you did.

A right way player should have easily

made good $$$ on these 9 hands.

Just $5 pass and 2X odds shows $197 net profit ($212 was max high)

345X odds shows $365 net profit ($395 was the max high)

never more than $5 plus odds into the starting bankroll

I also noticed on this type of machine, only one in SoCal,

the pass point, when it wins, does it very quickly.

(hands 3,4 and 6 had no point winners)

the first # 8 as first come out roll

shooter (Hand) #1

cor 8,3,4,11,3,8,win (6,#)

cor 10,10,win (2,#)

cor 3,crap out (1,#)

cor 6,5,6,win (3,#)

cor 6,7,out (2,#)

shooter (Hand) #1 14 roll hand

5 # COR

3 # Point Wins

3 # Fire Bets

3,2 shooter (Hand) score: pass,miss

2 # Place Hits

shooter (Hand) #2

cor 6,9,2,5,6,win (5,#)

cor 5,7,out (2,#)

shooter (Hand) #2 7 roll hand

2 # COR

1 # Point Wins

1 # Fire Bets

1,1 shooter (Hand) score: pass,miss

2 # Place Hits

shooter (Hand) #3

cor 7,win (1,#)

cor 5,9,7,out (3,#)

shooter (Hand) #3 4 roll hand

2 # COR

0 # Point Wins

0 # Fire Bets

1,1 shooter (Hand) score: pass,miss

1 # Place Hits

shooter (Hand) #4

cor 6,10,7,out (3,#)

shooter (Hand) #4 3 roll hand

1 # COR

0 # Point Wins

0 # Fire Bets

0,1 shooter (Hand) score: pass,miss

1 # Place Hits

shooter (Hand) #5

cor 7,win (1,#)

cor 11,win (1,#)

cor 3,crap out (1,#)

cor 8,11,9,9,8,win (5,#)

cor 9,4,6,8,6,8,8,12,11,10,8,6,3,6,9,win (15,#)

cor 7,win (1,#)

cor 7,win (1,#)

cor 8,10,10,8,win (4,#)

cor 7,win (1,#)

cor 8,8,win (2,#)

cor 9,9,win (2,#)

cor 8,5,7,out (3,#)

shooter (Hand) #5 37 roll hand

12 # COR

5 # Point Wins

2 # Fire Bets

10,2 shooter (Hand) score: pass,miss

15 # Place Hits

shooter (Hand) #6

cor 8,5,10,11,10,7,out (6,#)

shooter (Hand) #6 6 roll hand

1 # COR

0 # Point Wins

0 # Fire Bets

0,1 shooter (Hand) score: pass,miss

3 # Place Hits

shooter (Hand) #7

cor 2,crap out (1,#)

cor 6,6,win (2,#)

cor 9,8,10,8,4,8,9,win (7,#)

cor 4,7,out (2,#)

shooter (Hand) #7 12 roll hand

4 # COR

2 # Point Wins

2 # Fire Bets

2,2 shooter (Hand) score: pass,miss

5 # Place Hits

shooter (Hand) #8

cor 9,8,3,9,win (4,#)

cor 10,9,10,win (3,#)

cor 6,9,5,6,win (4,#)

cor 7,win (1,#)

cor 5,7,out (2,#)

shooter (Hand) #8 14 roll hand

5 # COR

3 # Point Wins

3 # Fire Bets

4,1 shooter (Hand) score: pass,miss

4 # Place Hits

shooter (Hand) #9

cor 8,10,6,11,8,win (5,#)

cor 2,crap out (1,#)

cor 8,3,11,5,9,12,8,win (7,#)

cor 8,8,win (2,#)

cor 8,6,7,out (3,#)

shooter (Hand) #9 18 roll hand

5 # COR

3 # Point Wins

1 # Fire Bets

3,2 shooter (Hand) score: pass,miss

5 # Place Hits

shooter (Hand) #10

cor

waiting...