Why I don't like to win from the darkside

This subject came up in a different thread, but I thought it would make for a different discussion here: Why I don't like to win from the darkside.

Well, first of all, when you play from the darkside and you also enjoy to shoot, you can never have a long roll -- or else you run the risk of bankrupting yourself. Sure, you could be one of those darksiders who only bets the no-pass and establishes the point of 6 and then goes to throw a dozen hard 4s and hard 10s and watches everyone else clean up... before you seven out and win your don't pass bet. But do you call that fun?

Ever meet a darkside shooter who could claim to have hit the fire bet for all six points and smile about it?

Years ago I played with a darksider -- he didn't shoot -- but he had markers out for about two and a half million dollars because he kept running into players who would get on a roll. Eventually, he managed to win enough and finish up about $130,000 but right then and there I learned that darksiders can lose big and just have to get lucky like everyone else.

I admit I once made a don't pass bet... with my last $100. I won that, and then with $200 I was the next shooter and played as a right-way bettor. I will always feel guilty that I made that don't pass bet. After all, I was raised to feel guilty.

What if you and a bunch of friends got together and filled up and empty table? If you all played the dark side, that could be a lot of fun. Everyone takes turns going around and PSO-ing. That would be the equivalent of fun for us dark siders.

Quote: AlanMendelson

Sure, you could be one of those darksiders who only bets the no-pass and establishes the point of 6 and then goes to throw a dozen hard 4s and hard 10s and watches everyone else clean up... before you seven out and win your don't pass bet. But do you call that fun?

It is not a lot of fun to see a seven clean the table.

Quote: AlanMendelson

I learned that darksiders can lose big and just have to get lucky like everyone else. . . . I will always feel guilty that I made that don't pass bet.

Admittedly some degree of grit is needed, but not really that much more than for pass or numbers bettors. As for the luck aspect, you'd better believe variance is the holy grail. Don't bettors are not as skilled as we look.

Quote: AlanMendelson

Ever meet a darkside shooter who could claim to have hit the fire bet for all six points and smile about it?

Yes. Me.

I am strictly a Don't Pass better. It does not bother me to shoot, though sometimes when the table is crowded and everyone is having fun, I will pass the dice so as not to interfere or interrupt the other people's good time.

I've also had my share of long rolls where I may have to pull off and then I pass the dice in the middle of my roll. Talk about pissing off some players.

Anyway--True Story:

One day about 3 years ago, I took the dice at a casino where I am known by the crew and pit. I was having a pretty good session and already up a good deal. There were five of us at the table. The other four (who were all friends) were at the other end of the table. Each of the other four bet the Fire Bet (which is something I would never do). I proceeded to bet my normal way on the Don'ts. Starting at $15 flat. Lay 10x odds. I bet continuously. First the Don't. Then successive DCs. If a number is repeated, I increase my flat--usually by $10. If a number is repeated again, I increase my flat again. I normally stop increasing my flats when I reach $60 or $75. Always 10x odds on the Line and the DCs. For example, if I hit 6 different numbers, then I have bets behind each of those numbers. And I continue to bet to stay up as numbers are repeated. It takes a bankroll.

This time I established a point and then proceeded to next hit 4 or 5 different numbers, following which I then made the point. Next roll was a Seven on the come-out, which meant I was paid on all the numbers (where I had DC bets) and started again with my original flat and 10x odds. Same thing occurred again. I established a different point. Hit 4 or 5 additional numbers. Then made the point. Then Seven on the come-out. I proceeded to establish points on each of the six different numbers. Then hit 4 or 5 additional numbers with my DC bets before making the point. And, every time, I rolled a Seven on the come-out after making the point. I repeated very few numbers other than the point.

As I was getting close to a 6-point Fire Bet, the other four guys were screaming and obviously urging me on. The Box and Crew could not remember a time when both betting sides of the table did so well together. This casino is one of those nice Midwest casinos where they don't get hung up when people win and even the crew--who treat me very well--was yelling in support.

I made the 6-point Fire Bet for the other 4 guys.

And I made $3,800 on my roll.

it's just a matter of taste. On the don't side, you're laying the odds. On the do side, you're taking them. So when things go wrong for the don't bettor, it's more costly. It's harder to turn a little into a lot for a don't bettor, but he probably has a better chance of turning a little into a little more.

Quote: sodawater

It's harder to turn a little into a lot for a don't bettor, but he probably has a better chance of turning a little into a little more.

I've often said--it is normally a slow grind.

But I would much rather grind out a win than walk away a loser.

Quote: Jimbo

I made the 6-point Fire Bet for the other 4 guys.

And I made $3,800 on my roll.

That's a great story. I'm pretty sure I've made the 4 point fire bit while shooting from the don'ts, but I didn't have the same luck as you with the come-out 7s to win a bunch of the DCs.

Quote: Jimbo

I made the 6-point Fire Bet for the other 4 guys.

And I made $3,800 on my roll.

That does make a great story!

Please remind me, do the don't come odds(on the number previously established) work on the come out roll? i.e. you rolled those sevens on the come out, were you automatically paid the odds you laid on said number(s)? or do you have to call them working etc.?

Nok -
Yeah, they're always working on a Come Out. No need to say anything.

I love a hot table as much as anyone and will play the lightside once a shooter has "qualified," meaning the establishment and completion of two pass line wins. Until that time, I play the dark and sorta revel in making money while everyone else is cursing the PSOs. They key to success on the dark, IMO, is to limit the liability. A DP and 1 DC is all that I will lay. Laying all the numbers puts too much at risk and is kinda like a Martingale system - once in a blue moon it will break you big.

Seven out, line away, pay the don't.

I just seen something that I've never witnessed before. A don't shooter took the dice at the table and everyone at the table bet the don't. There wasn't a single right side bet on the whole table. The table was also pretty full with only a spot or two open. Of course the shooter proceeded to hit his point and everyone lost.

The dark side betting from a math standpoint is fine, just be consistant and make the bets with the lowest
per centage house advantage.

The reason i dont play the dark side is that on a decent roll i can make good money and even
on a short roll i can often make money on the 6 & 8. A decent roll kills a darkside guy because
you can only win the last bet. Now i know there are those times when you get some dont come
bets up and the guy makes a point and hits a 7, so everyone wins. In a perfect world that would
be fun, but perfect does not happen much.

With darkside betting, just dont let one shooter kill you.

Dicesetter

I'm allready killed!! Dead and dried. The tables have not been kind to me at all this trip. I need a Frank Scoblete kind of roll! LOL


All I can do is set the point and then seven. I could have made a little money this morning but I'm playing scared and I know it. I'm taking a break now going to get some lunch, breathe and then try it one more time!!

I always play DS, with full odds based on casino. I dont play the DC and like someone else stated it is a slow grind. I have winning and losing sessions, but with a win or loss limit I really dont lose that much overall. I never roll, keep my head down and enjoy winning as much as anyone else. Its just the right way to play in my opinion as I dont believe in control or any nonsense like that. The numbers will work out to the odds over time.

I will be at Red Rock next week and will be playing DS, so feel free to come and watch me win or lose. Either way, I will be on the Dark Side.

Quote: NokTang

Please remind me, do the don't come odds(on the number previously established) work on the come out roll? i.e. you rolled those sevens on the come out, were you automatically paid the odds you laid on said number(s)? or do you have to call them working etc.?

I remember it this way: If a 7 would make the bet lose, then by default, the bet is not working on the come-out. (Other than the Don't Pass Line of course)

Quote: cowboy

I remember it this way: If a 7 would make the bet lose, then by default, the bet is not working on the come-out. (Other than the Don't Pass Line of course)

So in summary, the odds work on the come out roll when said odds are attached(behind) to a don't come bet, but when attached(behind) a come bet they are off by default. Got it and thanks. No wonder dealers are paid so much.

I think there was one place I went to where odds were left on during come out, but I can't recall where that was. But yes, that's the standard.

Quote: cowboy

I remember it this way: If a 7 would make the bet lose, then by default, the bet is not working on the come-out. (Other than the Don't Pass Line of course)

Also, all one-roll bets are working on the come-out, regardless if they lose on a 7.

Yes, right, thanks. (Forgot cuz I stay away from those!)