dicesitter
dicesitter
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February 25th, 2013 at 9:12:09 PM permalink
Wonderful night at the table........ excellent money maker.


4 rolls, 3,20,12,22

This is an indication why infleunce is so important with good records i new i have been throwing over 30%
6 & 8's on this table ... So i was ready to up my starting bets and take advantage of that.

total rolls was 57 and 23 6 & 8's for just over 40%.

Ofcourse since dice control does not work it had to be luck, just as it was Thursday night and Saturday. Little
over $2000 added to my craps fund.

Gosh i am tired and feeling good,, time for a knap..

dicesitter
mdh
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February 25th, 2013 at 9:18:23 PM permalink
Quote: dicesitter

Wonderful night at the table........ excellent money market.


4 rolls, 3,20,12,22

This is an indication why infleunce is so important with good records i new i have been throwing over 30%
6 & 8's on this table ... So i was ready to up my starting bets and take advantage of that.

total rolls was 57 and 23 6 & 8's for just over 40%.

Ofcourse since dice control does not work it had to be luck, just as it was Thursday night and Saturday. Little
over $2000 added to my craps fund.

Gosh i am tired and feeling good,, time for a knap..

dicesitter

pictures names dates faces casinos witnesses or it didnt happen lol. Just kidding congrats.
7craps
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February 25th, 2013 at 9:48:15 PM permalink
Quote: dicesitter

Wonderful night at the table........ excellent money market.

4 rolls, 3,20,12,22

You really mean 4 Hands
and their lengths in rolls were 3(ouch),20,12,22
Nice work. When the numbers roll that you bet on, it gives for a good chance to win some money.
Quote: dicesitter

This is an indication why influence is so important with good records i new i have been throwing over 30%
6 & 8's on this table ... So i was ready to up my starting bets and take advantage of that.

Excellent and good advice.
If you know you are going to win more than average, bet more.

Quote: dicesitter

total rolls was 57 and 23 6 & 8's for just over 40%.
Of course since dice control does not work it had to be luck, ...

It "could have been just random results"
Well within the bell curve. Again, nice results.

A 1 in 75 chance that a Gorilla (not calling "you" a Gorilla)
tossing the bones for bananas could do exactly what you did in any 57 roll sample size.
That is 13,333 out of 1 million Gorillas trying his experiment. I doubt they will try to influence the dice results.

If you look at a set of 57 rolls out of your total rolls you documented over time,
you will average being at 23 or more 6&8s about 1 in 37 of those groups of 57.
Check it out if you have a large sample of dice rolls. Hopefully you are way higher than that.

Back to the Gorillas that love to throw the craps dice.
Out of those 1 million Gorillas, 1 in 37 would do as good (23) as you did or even better than you did. No DI skills needed.

Those that did 24 or more would average 1 in 72 or an average total of 13,975 out of those 1 million Gorillas that participated in the experiment.
More than those who threw exactly 23 6&8s.

I would. 57 rolls for some bananas!! A no-brainer!!

Time to snack
Keep us updated.

You can use you Blog too to place your session data in.
That would be a nice way to have them all in one place.

Continued Good Luck
winsome johnny (not Win some johnny)
AlanMendelson
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February 25th, 2013 at 10:34:52 PM permalink
Congratulations. If they were all bad hands, would you have blamed the stick man changing, a new player coming to the table, or the cocktail waitress asking you if you wanted a drink?
FleaStiff
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February 25th, 2013 at 11:21:23 PM permalink
Quote: 7craps

You really mean 4 Hands and their lengths in rolls were 3(ouch),20,12,22


Thanks for that illuminating post. I was worried about that rolling 20 and 22 with two dice.
I think I almost sobered up.
petroglyph
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February 25th, 2013 at 11:27:42 PM permalink
Quote: 7craps

You really mean 4 Hands
and their lengths in rolls were 3(ouch),20,12,22
Nice work. When the numbers roll that you bet on, it gives for a good chance to win some money.
Excellent and good advice.
If you know you are going to win more than average, bet more.

It "could have been just random results"

Well within the bell curve. Again, nice results.

A 1 in 75 chance that a Gorilla (not calling "you" a Gorilla)
tossing the bones for bananas could do exactly what you did in any 57 roll sample size.
That is 13,333 out of 1 million Gorillas trying his experiment. I doubt they will try to influence the dice results.

If you look at a set of 57 rolls out of your total rolls you documented over time,
you will average being at 23 or more 6&8s about 1 in 37 of those groups of 57.
Check it out if you have a large sample of dice rolls. Hopefully you are way higher than that.

Back to the Gorillas that love to throw the craps dice.


Guerilla's might throw dice, Gorilla's don't. They go to work at the Nugget as boxmen.
Out of those 1 million Gorillas, 1 in 37 would do as good (23) as you did or even better than you did. No DI skills needed.

Those that did 24 or more would average 1 in 72 or an average total of 13,975 out of those 1 million Gorillas that participated in the experiment.
More than those who threw exactly 23 6&8s.

I would. 57 rolls for some bananas!! A no-brainer!!

Time to snack
Keep us updated.

You can use you Blog too to place your session data in.
That would be a nice way to have them all in one place.

Continued Good Luck

petroglyph
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February 25th, 2013 at 11:31:21 PM permalink
Well that didn't work out so well.
I was attempting to reply with the neat boxes, haven't figured that one out yet?
I wanted to add, guerilla's might throw dice, gorilla's don't.
They become boxmen.
imaginal
imaginal
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February 26th, 2013 at 8:03:41 AM permalink
Quote: dicesitter

Wonderful night at the table........ excellent money maker.



Dicesitter,

How many winning sessions as opposed to losing sessions have you experienced within the last couple of months?
"I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn how to do it." - Pablo Picasso
TIMSPEED
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February 26th, 2013 at 8:35:46 AM permalink
If I am to read this right...
You rolled a 3 roll hand
Then a 20 roll, then a 12, then a 22....

I'm sorry...where is the "good hands" ?
I'm not bragging or anything...but just about every time I pick up the dice I roll a high-teens/mid-20's hand...is that good??
I mean seriously...consider if you roll a hand like this...
Quote: Roll Type


Come out: 7,11,2,7,7,9 (6 rolls so far)
Point Cycle: 5,12,3,8,10,6,9 (13 rolls now)
Coming Out again: 12,11,7,8 (17 rolls)
Point Cycle: 4,11,9,2,7-out (21 rolls total)


What did that really accomplish? If anything, you probably lost people money...a lot of craps may have killed the come-betters, as well as only like 2 numbers hit twice...But you rolled 21 rolls?
I'd say 50-60 rolls is a good hand
Gambling calls to me...like this ~> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Nap37mNSmQ
dicesitter
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February 26th, 2013 at 9:30:26 AM permalink
laughing


thats ok.. some day you will figure this out.

dicesitter
7craps
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February 26th, 2013 at 9:33:23 AM permalink
Quote: TIMSPEED

I'm sorry...where is the "good hands" ?

The OP really did not give out the complete info on every roll.
He could have had Hands of 3,9,11,7 and still rolled 23 6&8s.

He is a DI and he rolls more 6&8s (his claim), and when he rolls more 6&8s by the percentages
he bets more on them, I gather by placing the 6&8, to win more.
A win, win situation.

in some sessions, like the one in this thread, 23 out of 57 rolls at 40% is his proof of his DI skill
(and therefore that result could NOT be because of just randomness... in his mind)

He does not say how many of those 6&8 rolls were on a come out roll with the Place6 & 8 not working, not winning if he bets those.

Anyone can make money if the bets they have out on the table win more than average.

But you have to make the bets to win.
And the OP says he did and threw the dice on his winning rolls.
winsome johnny (not Win some johnny)
Ahigh
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February 26th, 2013 at 9:45:02 AM permalink
Well, I am stepping up to the plate and recording my rolls in the casino per suggestion of the Wizard himself.

He is right in saying that very few people actually back up their claims with data. I may be the first to publish my data as I have committed to the Wizard personally that I will start recording all of my rolls in the casino immediately.

This could be a wake up call for me, but the Wizard is right that if you don't do this, it's hard to be taken seriously.
aahigh.com
odiousgambit
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February 26th, 2013 at 9:59:18 AM permalink
Quote: Ahigh

the Wizard himself



Is it just a coincidence you two ran into each other, or was the W. on a clandestine mission to check out the skills of someone he just placed a bet with?

Do not underestimate the Wizard [g]
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
TIMSPEED
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February 26th, 2013 at 10:16:55 AM permalink
Quote: 7craps

The OP really did not give out the complete info on every roll.
He could have had Hands of 3,9,11,7 and still rolled 23 6&8s.
He is a DI and he rolls more 6&8s (his claim), and when he rolls more 6&8s by the percentages
he bets more on them, I gather by placing the 6&8, to win more.
A win, win situation.
in some sessions, like the one in this thread, 23 out of 57 rolls at 40% is his proof of his DI skill
(and therefore that result could NOT be because of just randomness... in his mind)
He does not say how many of those 6&8 rolls were on a come out roll with the Place6 & 8 not working, not winning if he bets those.
Anyone can make money if the bets they have out on the table win more than average.
But you have to make the bets to win.
And the OP says he did and threw the dice on his winning rolls.


Even so...you'd have to WORK the 6/8 Place Bets on the come-out, and if you don't take them down after they hit, when the 7-out comes, you're losing whatever you had on them ($6/$12/$18/$24/$30/etc)...
Gambling calls to me...like this ~> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Nap37mNSmQ
dicesitter
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February 28th, 2013 at 6:36:26 AM permalink
Well i am not sure what your point is.... are you suggesting i did not throw 23 6 & 8's or are suggesting
we did not make very money... or are you suggesting we could have done this except that we did
not have a camera on to show you so it just could not have happened.

Maybe your suggesting we are bingo players and are just posting imformation for the heck of it.

But the thing is what ever i post is the truth.... end of story....now what you do with that information
is your decision... some people will be like you , others will be like Buzzard, still a few others
will say thats sounds like a good way to play craps, i wonder if i can get better at. Its really your
decision.

I will say just for the record.....

toss 1 was 6, 8 and a 7.. the 7 was a 4/3 which is a 7 which suggests you are on axis with the hardway set.

toss 2 my poiint was a 6 and i made that, it was then a 4 and i made it... it was sitll only a 12 hand.

toss 3 the point was 5...... in those rolls i did not throw a 5 or a 4, every toss was a 6,8,9,10

toss 4...the point was 4....as in the roll above i never threw a 4 or a 5

So on the last two rolls i never made a pass line point.

This is not unusual for me, i have had a couple rolls over 50 where i never threw a 5 using the
3v set.

Dice control is not at all about long rolls... it is about hitting key numbers often so you can bet
more on them...

NOw i am sure this will not make any sense to you,,, but it will to some people that want to get
better at craps.

Dicesitter
Ahigh
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February 28th, 2013 at 7:07:22 AM permalink
For what it is worth, my data does not support that if axis shooting exists (the numbers on the axis not showing up as much) my personal roll data does not support that I can accomplish it.

I depend on correlation effects between the two dice with my shot, and all of the non-randomness is in the relative outcomes of the left and right dice, not in the relative outcomes of one throw to the next throw.

I do see evidence that which face lands down on the initial hit makes a difference, but not that the two faces to the left and right on the initial hit make any difference.

I don't know what that effect would be called, but the correlation is with a single face on each die rather than the two faces along the axis.

I have not even begun to even attempt to verify the validity of axis theory of dice control myself, but if you have data showing your axis numbers showing up a different percentage of your off axis numbers, I would love to see your numbers.

I suspect that if it's possible the problem with my ability to exploit this is that the roll angle of my shot varies from one shot to the next as I don't worry as much about being orthogonal as I would expect an axis shooter to worry about.
aahigh.com
dicesitter
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February 28th, 2013 at 7:39:01 AM permalink
Well i am not sure what your data tells you.. that is yours.

My data, and my play and my growing craps account tells me axis control is important... Now that varies between
players... i know some that tell me they get close to 70% axis control..... i have never been able to close to that
over-all and i use smart craps....

What i can tell you is this ..axis control goes hand and hand with the dice set.

When i use the hardway set , i do this starting out and to be honest i use when i switch to the 3v set and it is
clear that for what ever reason, i am way off on my toss....

But lets say my toss is good tonight.... if i stay with hardway set i will throw more hardways, i will throw more 3/5 5/3
4/5 and 5/4 and some 2/4
Now when i use the 3/v set and my throw is good, i throw many 6/2 and 5/1 and 3/3.. some nights i will throw a good deal of 3/1
a totally different group of numbers than i will throw with the hardway set.

If dicesitting did not work or if axis control were not important it would not matter what set you used, there would be no difference.

I have played this game for 35 years....and i have seen the best and talked with them..... you do not start making money at craps until
you can prove to YOURSELF.. that you can throw certain numbers more often....period.

Lets just say for kick and giggles you are a red chip plaer, many people are.... you go to the table and take a $5 pass line bet
and the number is 9 and place double odds behind and you place the 6 & 8 for $6..... you hit a 6 for $7, you hit an 8 for $7
and you hit another 6 for $7.... and out.... you have $27 in the hand and took in $21

Now.... you go to the table and place a $5 line bet and the number is 9 and you place single odds.... then place the 6 and 8 for $60

you get the exact same numbers, but this time you make $210 and lose $130... for a profit of $80 on a couple of rolls.


Now that roll goes to 15 or 20 rolls.....and your profit grows.

I spent 4 very hard years at this and i am finally at that point that i can play the 6 & 8..... AND I WIN as long as i play at a table
i can handle. First the first time in 35 years i am in control of my gambling... i play on the tables i want, i bet to my advantage
and if i lose, which i do i dont have to chase the loss, because it comes out of my craps accounts not my house payment account.

I think you take this game seriously, you need to take the next step, and get the very best people to help you.

dicesitter
Boz
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February 28th, 2013 at 8:38:03 AM permalink
Quote: dicesitter

Well i am not sure what your data tells you.. that is yours.

My data, and my play and my growing craps account tells me axis control is important... Now that varies between
players... i know some that tell me they get close to 70% axis control..... i have never been able to close to that
over-all and i use smart craps....

What i can tell you is this ..axis control goes hand and hand with the dice set.

When i use the hardway set , i do this starting out and to be honest i use when i switch to the 3v set and it is
clear that for what ever reason, i am way off on my toss....

But lets say my toss is good tonight.... if i stay with hardway set i will throw more hardways, i will throw more 3/5 5/3
4/5 and 5/4 and some 2/4
Now when i use the 3/v set and my throw is good, i throw many 6/2 and 5/1 and 3/3.. some nights i will throw a good deal of 3/1
a totally different group of numbers than i will throw with the hardway set.

If dicesitting did not work or if axis control were not important it would not matter what set you used, there would be no difference.

I have played this game for 35 years....and i have seen the best and talked with them..... you do not start making money at craps until
you can prove to YOURSELF.. that you can throw certain numbers more often....period.

Lets just say for kick and giggles you are a red chip plaer, many people are.... you go to the table and take a $5 pass line bet
and the number is 9 and place double odds behind and you place the 6 & 8 for $6..... you hit a 6 for $7, you hit an 8 for $7
and you hit another 6 for $7.... and out.... you have $27 in the hand and took in $21

Now.... you go to the table and place a $5 line bet and the number is 9 and you place single odds.... then place the 6 and 8 for $60

you get the exact same numbers, but this time you make $210 and lose $130... for a profit of $80 on a couple of rolls.


Now that roll goes to 15 or 20 rolls.....and your profit grows.

I spent 4 very hard years at this and i am finally at that point that i can play the 6 & 8..... AND I WIN as long as i play at a table
i can handle. First the first time in 35 years i am in control of my gambling... i play on the tables i want, i bet to my advantage
and if i lose, which i do i dont have to chase the loss, because it comes out of my craps accounts not my house payment account.

I think you take this game seriously, you need to take the next step, and get the very best people to help you.

dicesitter



I dont speak for the Wiz or anyone else, but I am sure there are many on here willing to make the same wagers with you that have been offered in the past on your "prowess". With your skills $2000 should be nothing and you could take tens of thousands from members on here, if you can find a casino that will still let you play.
Ahigh
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February 28th, 2013 at 8:55:30 AM permalink
Quote: dicesitter

I think you take this game seriously, you need to take the next step, and get the very best people to help you.



Who has the data to support axis theories?
aahigh.com
Zcore13
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February 28th, 2013 at 9:06:32 AM permalink
I will volunteer to be a witness to anyone who says they can control the dice if they play in Laughlin or Las Vegas. Somehow nobody is ever present when this contolling is going on.

ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
7craps
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February 28th, 2013 at 9:10:41 AM permalink
Quote: Ahigh

Who has the data to support axis theories?

GTC, Smart Craps and Wong to just name a few. The big guys.

But they only look at the final result of that dice roll.
As AlanM has pointed out before, he can tell from the first roll of a shooter if they could have the DI skill,
the dice stay together in flight, slow and easy to the wall, rolling and bouncing on axis.

If the numbers that face up can come from on axis they claim 100% proof it did stay on axis,
even tho the left die spun around 5 times (360 degrees 5 times) and the right die spun around 3 times.
(as can easily be seen on a slow motion shot of the dice roll from birth to death)

But the axis sect says, the ends justifies the means. (the set,1,2,3 and the end result)
only the end result matters
winsome johnny (not Win some johnny)
Ahigh
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February 28th, 2013 at 9:19:18 AM permalink
Building up a database will take time, but I'm just asking for the data. My format is pretty well publicized and includes specifications for the set used and the outcome recording both faces. It's easy to see axis bias in the face counts if someone provides the data to me.
aahigh.com
TIMSPEED
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February 28th, 2013 at 9:41:29 AM permalink
Quote: dicesitter

Well i am not sure what your point is.... are you suggesting i did not throw 23 6 & 8's or are suggesting
we did not make very money


Either/Or...the 23 6's & 8's...let's say for right now they're all AFTER the come-out and NON-Points...I'm also going to imagine you START OUT betting $30 or $60 on each...(begin risk with $60 or $120)...it's just too much risk for a LUCK event...I'd rather risk $5 and hit a quad on vP for $125/$200/$400...
Gambling calls to me...like this ~> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Nap37mNSmQ
dicesitter
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February 28th, 2013 at 5:34:00 PM permalink
ahigh


go get your own data..... if you cant make it work there is no one to blame but yourself..... there are
good classes and instructors in the country.... go find them take some time and money... and
then show other people what you can do...

Quit expecting others to provide information for you.

There are many good players in the country... they could care less what you doing, they have taken
hundreds and hundreds of hours and a good deal of money to prove to themselves that they either
have a good advantage, or they need work....

you have a show , but you cant set dice, you have a show, but you cant get any axis control, you have a show
but you cant show where YOU have enough control to bet on anything.....so there it is, you want to have a show,
get good at this..... you just want others that are good to be your props....

sorry they have others things to do

dicesitter
mdh
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February 28th, 2013 at 7:32:20 PM permalink
7craps, Ahigh and Dicesitter when you say the dice are on axis do you mean the dice are tumbling head over heels so to speak? The dice are not wobbling and hitting the felt with the corners? If this is the case what makes them stay on axis after hittin the wall and then hitting the felt the second time?
Ahigh
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February 28th, 2013 at 7:47:39 PM permalink
I don't have ANY evidence that axis control exists. At all.

All of my evidence is correlation based.

I have no disbelief in axis controlled shooting, but I have never really understood it at all. I mean it never seemed plausible to me.

I think when I look at my slow motion camera, I see no reason to believe axis shooting holds water.

It's just some sort of sales pitch for the feeble minded as far as I can tell.

Correlation bias is the only bias that I currently think is plausible at all.

The defensive post above supports my reluctance to believe in axis shooting.

But if there is someone who has data to support axis theories, I would like to see it so I can look at it with my software.

It'd be great if the person providing the data were credible so that I could have some confidence that the data was entered properly.
aahigh.com
mdh
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February 28th, 2013 at 8:03:07 PM permalink
thx for responding Ahigh. I was not implying that you or 7craps believe in axis control, I was just trying to simply learn more. Ive watched the forum members go at this dice control thing for quite a while now and Im still not convinced. In fact I dont ever think I will be. Im believing winning at craps has more to do with betting habits than it does with dice control. I do appreciate all your hard work tho. Still learning how to read all the great graphs (and understand them) that you and 7craps posts.
dicesitter
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March 1st, 2013 at 7:28:29 AM permalink
mdh


think about something.......... every bet on the craps table..... every one ... (except first roll on come out or come bet)
has a house advantage.......so no matter what you bet there is a loss factor involved....

So when you say winning at craps has more to do with betting than anything else.... think.... how can any bet ,
or any combinations of bets make you a winner when every bet has a house advantage..... that is not possible.

If i cash my check at the bank and they take 4% to cash it..... i cash $100 check and they take 4%... now i can
cash 4 checks at the same time and they still take 4% from each..... they say well ok, we will take 4% from a
check of $100 or less and 2.8% from a check of $101.00 or more..... and even better 1.42% for a check of
$300 or more. so you cash a $100 check, a $150 check and a $310 check...... does not matter how you do that,
does not matter what order you do that.... they are taking 4% , 2.8% and 1.42 %..... same on the craps table,
every single bet till the end of time costs you money.

NOw with dice setting, or control or what ever you want to call it..... all you are doing is delivering the dice
the same way time after time.... now if you are good, you can vary the results some. Notice i did not say
control..... i said vary slightly......i cant pick up the dice and throw an 8 or a 6 anytime i want... but i can
get several percentage points more 6 & 8.. if i throw well... yah but what about the aligator board....

well consider this, a good golfer hits the ball, has no idea for sure where it will land, could be a perfect shot and land in
a devit, or on a slight side hill.... yet the best are still the best... the bowler shots the same shot, yet the oil on
the alley changes,,, but the best stay the best....

the point is you cant control everything, but you can have an affect.

NOw ask yourself a question..... what purpose do the knuckleheads on here serve when they create an image
that something cant be done, when it is done every day... when something cant be learned when it is learned
every day, what possible good is there in following people that suggest no matter what you do, you cant get
better.... That makes no sense......

If dice control does not work, and if winning on negative bets can not work...... why play the game.

Dicesitter
Buzzard
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March 1st, 2013 at 7:44:36 AM permalink
" If dice control does not work, and if winning on negative bets can not work...... why play the game. "

Gee, what a tough question ! why do people play slots ? or bet horses ? or play poker week after losing week ?

Is it ok if I take a guess ?

Can it possible be GAMBLING DUH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
Ahigh
Ahigh
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March 1st, 2013 at 7:53:27 AM permalink
How does that low hanging fruit taste, there, buzz?
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MrV
MrV
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March 1st, 2013 at 7:53:39 AM permalink
Quote: dicesitter

mdhNOw ask yourself a question..... what purpose do the knuckleheads on here serve when they create an image
that something cant be done, when it is done every day... when something cant be learned when it is learned
every day, what possible good is there in following people that suggest no matter what you do, you cant get better.... That makes no sense..If dice control does not work, and if winning on negative bets can not work...... why play the game.Dicesitter



Your question is rhetorical.

Were you genuinely thirsting for knowledge, I would answer your question.

But you're not.

You've chosen your delusion, now continue to rationalize about it.
"What, me worry?"
Ahigh
Ahigh
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March 1st, 2013 at 8:12:45 AM permalink
ThE ThIng I wOnDer is WhAt is wrOng wiTh the GuYs keyBoard?

Maybe he's too busy holding a cigarette in his hand while he's typing?
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Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
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March 1st, 2013 at 12:08:30 PM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
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