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Ayecarumba
Ayecarumba
Joined: Nov 17, 2009
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September 14th, 2011 at 10:39:38 AM permalink
Is counting cards in blackjack cheating the House?
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
buzzpaff
buzzpaff
Joined: Mar 8, 2011
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September 14th, 2011 at 10:41:18 AM permalink
Silly question. Of course not !
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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September 14th, 2011 at 10:48:12 AM permalink
Nor is there anything despicable about it at all, claims to the contrary notwithstanding in my book. On the other hand, the casino is going to be allowed to prohibit it when it is spotted, it would seem.

IMO a Casino should not offer a game that is countable, rather than trying to collar those who do count.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
thecesspit
thecesspit
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September 14th, 2011 at 10:49:30 AM permalink
I have no problem with a house backing off any player they wish to, it is there game. I do have a problem with someone saying it's against the rules to memorize the cards seen so far, WITHOUT telling me where to find that rule. if it was really a rule, all black jack games would be CSM.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
buzzpaff
buzzpaff
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September 14th, 2011 at 10:51:54 AM permalink
Hold on ! Dan Lubin is going to post that rule here. Right DAN ?
matilda
matilda
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September 14th, 2011 at 11:06:00 AM permalink
Suppose a casino knows a player is capable of counting; Can they stop him from playing when he is not counting?
bigfoot66
bigfoot66
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September 14th, 2011 at 11:09:39 AM permalink
Cheating in a casino by a player is defined (by me, though I know I did not make this up) as "changing the elements of the game". For example, switching in loaded dice, marking cards. What element of the game is altered by keeping track of which cards have been played?
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thecesspit
thecesspit
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September 14th, 2011 at 11:09:48 AM permalink
Quote: matilda

Suppose a casino knows a player is capable of counting; Can they stop him from playing when he is not counting?



Sure. A casino can take action from whoever they so decide to. I don't have a problem with that.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
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September 14th, 2011 at 11:34:48 AM permalink
HELLO!

1. Blackjack Counting is indeed considered cheating by "Casino house rules" here in the state of Nevada by virually every casino in the state. You will be flat-betted, asked to play another game, or expelled by the casino if repeatedly caught. Without apology. You will NOT be back-roomed by a goon squad of killers that many board members claim, you will be given a Buffett comp for you time, and asked to play slot machines, dice, Roulette, or Pai Gow Poker. Do it again, you will be asked to leave. Do it a third time, you will go into a "book" (not the "black book", Got that?)
2. It is NOT considered "illegal cheating" by law enforcement agancies in any state of the U.S. This means you won't go to jail. So what! You just can't get away with it. Try to enter a casino a 4th time, you might be arrested for tresspassing, and pay a fine, where you will be told to "get a job and a freaking life."
3. Nobody seems to make ANY serious money from card counting anymore. Nobody. It was listed as "One of the Dead Old School dead-end Careers" in some magazine. If ANYBODY says "Oh! I was a card counter" he will also say "but I kept my day-time gig [read: job]...because it didn't work out. No shit.
4. Blackjack counting playing as a career is simply retarded. I WELCOME YOU TO TRY! It's a boring game, you can't win even with counting; you will be giving yourself the punishment you deserve by trying.
5. The MIT Blackjack team members are now all broke in their 40's (serves them right), had been arrested on false documents charges trying to pull off their card-counting careers, and now all of these idiots think they'd better better off in life if they had finished their engineering degrees and medical degrees to have productive careers with no police records. IF they had gone to dealer's schools, they all probably would have been casino managers by now, with the same status wealth and status of doctors or lawyers but without $200,000 in students loans to pay off. In hindsight, they were just fucking idiots. Waste of minds that could have done something.
6. NOBODY at this board makes a career from Blackjack card counting. Nobody. Stanford Wong and Ian Anderson can't do it anymore, and they have sold oout their books. End of line. Been there, done that , it is dead at this point. If Stanford Wong or Ian Anderson had used their time to develop a new BJ game, they'd be in a different position. The NEW school in gaming doesn't even know from them!
7. Card counting is DEAD. As a career, as a pasttime, or as anything. Floormen making $140 a day gets security to detain you, saying: "Sadly - just another fucking idiot for security and surveillance to deal with and waste our time with...." This is the modern view of card counters by the gaming industry."
8. The amount of intellectual effort wasted on this card-counting crap is just ridiculous, and for what? Design a new game, and get 50 or so out.

CARD COUNTING IS SIMPLY DEAD AT THIS POINT IN TIME.
YOU CANNOT MAKE A FUCKING DIME FROM IT - NO LESS A CAREER OR EVEN A PASTTIME TO BRAG ABOUT - EXCEPT HERE.
IT IS NOT REAL GAMBLING IF THE CASINO THROWS YOU OUT FOR IT - AND THEY CAN AND WILL.
THEY WILL THROW YOU OUT FOR WASTING YOUR TIME - NOT ONLY THEIRS.
IT IS NOT REAL ADVANCEMENT IN GAMING, IT IS ANCIENT.
LEARN POKER
LEARN DICE
LEARN PAI GOW
LEARN ANOTHER FREAKING GAME
LEARN HOW TO DESIGN A NEW CASINO GAME AND SELL IT
LEARN HOW TO DEAL
IF YOU COUNT CARDS, SHOW US THE MONEY, OR GET A LIFE.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
ikilledjerrylogan
ikilledjerrylogan
Joined: Aug 18, 2011
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September 14th, 2011 at 11:44:09 AM permalink
So, verbatim, whats that house rule that card-counting breaks again? Did I miss it?

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