Something new ? I-Table Blackjack
July 7th, 2011 at 3:01:40 PM
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Saw this recently at the Rivers in Pittsburgh. It was blackjack, with regular rules
and a dealer, but each spot at the table had a small flatscreen ( I-pad ? ) that displayed your
card total and your bet.
You used the touchscreen to make your bet.
The interesting thing is that this was at the table with the lowest limit, $ 5.
I wonder if the purpose of this "hybrid" game is to run software that looks for
card counters.
I asked the dealer how the computer could add up my score when he was
dealing out of a 6 deck shoe. He said there was a little camera in the
shoe that saw what the card value was when he slid it out of the shoe.
I assume he knew what he was talking about, and I didn't see any other
way for it to work.
and a dealer, but each spot at the table had a small flatscreen ( I-pad ? ) that displayed your
card total and your bet.
You used the touchscreen to make your bet.
The interesting thing is that this was at the table with the lowest limit, $ 5.
I wonder if the purpose of this "hybrid" game is to run software that looks for
card counters.
I asked the dealer how the computer could add up my score when he was
dealing out of a 6 deck shoe. He said there was a little camera in the
shoe that saw what the card value was when he slid it out of the shoe.
I assume he knew what he was talking about, and I didn't see any other
way for it to work.
There's emptiness behind their eyes
There's dust in all their hearts
They just want to steal us all and take us all apart
July 7th, 2011 at 5:23:29 PM
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That is the I-deal, yup.
No, it does not track counters as far as I know but could do it.
It could keep track of the Hi-Lo count and the player's current betting pattern.
It would a BJ player's dream to see a tote board with the current count. THE COUNT IS +8. CHUNK IT UP!!!
There was a system called MindPlay-21 that not only had the mini-cameras in the shoe tracking the cards out for the count, but had sensors in the betting spots that track bet raises and reductions with the count, and nailed card counters, and some innocent (ahem!) BJ players too.
No, it does not track counters as far as I know but could do it.
It could keep track of the Hi-Lo count and the player's current betting pattern.
It would a BJ player's dream to see a tote board with the current count. THE COUNT IS +8. CHUNK IT UP!!!
There was a system called MindPlay-21 that not only had the mini-cameras in the shoe tracking the cards out for the count, but had sensors in the betting spots that track bet raises and reductions with the count, and nailed card counters, and some innocent (ahem!) BJ players too.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
July 7th, 2011 at 6:47:00 PM
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It's at the $5 level to try and attract players. Doubt that it will !
July 7th, 2011 at 6:52:26 PM
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Quote: buzzpaffIt's at the $5 level to try and attract players. Doubt that it will !
Yeah it will. When the price of the regular tables go up, people who want to play lower level tables will have an option. That will bring the customers regardless.
My questions is: What's the point? It doesn't really speed up the game, it just minimizes dealer errors and paying out checks. Seems like a lot of technology that doesn't offer much.
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
July 7th, 2011 at 7:01:19 PM
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When the prices get high enough , people will play at digital tables without a dealer.
July 7th, 2011 at 7:13:13 PM
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Quote: buzzpaffWhen the prices get high enough , people will play at digital tables without a dealer.
The I-tables have dealers though. And real cards, and payout in real chips. The dealers collect money traditionally, it just counts the cards and allows electronic bets.
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
July 7th, 2011 at 7:30:42 PM
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Do you get chips when you color up and leave?
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
July 7th, 2011 at 7:36:14 PM
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Good question!
July 7th, 2011 at 7:36:40 PM
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Yes, I believe they do pay out in real chips when you cash out
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
July 7th, 2011 at 7:45:24 PM
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Quote: TiltpoulYes, I believe they do pay out in real chips when you cash out
Sounds like another hybrid: Rapid Craps.
I suppose they can also track your betting more precisely for comp purposes. But I don't know whether that is a good or bad thing for the player.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
July 8th, 2011 at 3:10:46 AM
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They have this in Delaware, and the minimum is $2 if you paid a 25 cent ante! $5 got you off the ante.
real chips are used to color up.
As for card counting, I am surprised they dealt out of a shoe in Harrington it was CSM.
real chips are used to color up.
As for card counting, I am surprised they dealt out of a shoe in Harrington it was CSM.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
July 8th, 2011 at 12:54:24 PM
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Quote: odiousgambitThey have this in Delaware, and the minimum is $2 if you paid a 25 cent ante! $5 got you off the ante.
real chips are used to color up.
As for card counting, I am surprised they dealt out of a shoe [edited] In Harrington it was CSM.
I've seen tables elsewhere that use CSM (Riviera comes to mind), but in Pittsburgh and at Ameristar Council Bluffs in IA, they use a shoe. It would make more sense to speed up the game with a CSM.
It still beats the strange tables I saw at Indiana Live on Monday. They have a dealer who honestly does nothing but give high fives to players. It's ENTIRELY electronic, but not like Arkansas, where they push buttons and pay out in checks. No, these dealers just stand there, I guess to make sure nobody punches another person. Instead of a computer in the pit, they had a bar (actually, not a bad idea). But if a dealer isn't present, the game isn't open. They also had two side bets on the game: High-Tie BJ, and Bad Beat.
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
July 8th, 2011 at 1:42:54 PM
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I've played these tables at Rivers multiple times.
To answer a few of the questions;
Yes, the table limits are always lower on these tables than the "normal" tables. Yes, they are all full by 9pm.
You can buy into the game with chips or cash which gets credited into your seat. When you are ready to leave, simply tell the dealer and you are paid out in chips.
Funny thing with that is that if you cash out with $XX.50 they round up to the next dollar, instead of paying out in coin or pink chips.
The table has the ability to track your specific play to your player's card, but Rivers doesn't have it set up to do it. You are tracked just like you would be on any other table.
To answer a few of the questions;
Yes, the table limits are always lower on these tables than the "normal" tables. Yes, they are all full by 9pm.
You can buy into the game with chips or cash which gets credited into your seat. When you are ready to leave, simply tell the dealer and you are paid out in chips.
Funny thing with that is that if you cash out with $XX.50 they round up to the next dollar, instead of paying out in coin or pink chips.
The table has the ability to track your specific play to your player's card, but Rivers doesn't have it set up to do it. You are tracked just like you would be on any other table.
Expert Gold Price Prognosticator of WoV
July 8th, 2011 at 2:01:00 PM
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Quote: Tiltpoul
They also had two side bets on the game: High-Tie BJ, and Bad Beat.
It Sound Like Ddigideal's I-Table with MathExtremist side bet Bad-Beat Blackjack.
Stephen Au-Yeung (Legend of New Table Games®) NewTableGames.com
July 8th, 2011 at 4:58:55 PM
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Quote: MrCasinoGamesIt Sound Like Ddigideal's I-Table with MathExtremist side bet Bad-Beat Blackjack.
Well, whatever it was, it was really stupid. At least in Arkansas, the dealers hit buttons and made payments in checks. The dealers at Indiana Live might as well have been slot attendants, and maybe they are.
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
July 8th, 2011 at 6:34:17 PM
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Quote: TiltpoulThey also had two side bets on the game: High-Tie BJ, and Bad Beat.
A sighting! Most encouraging. DigiDeal is pretty cool, but they're not very talkative -- this is the first I've heard of that. Anyone been to Hoosier Park lately?
So the question is: did you play the Bad Beat Blackjack side bet? If so, what'd you think?
P.S. Wiz, does Bad Beat Blackjack get coverage on WoO now?
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice."
-- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
July 8th, 2011 at 6:38:38 PM
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Quote: TiltpoulAt least in Arkansas, the dealers hit buttons and made payments in checks. The dealers at Indiana Live might as well have been slot attendants, and maybe they are.
That's exactly what they are. Jursidictional requirements vary from state to state, but I'm pretty sure that the racetracks only allow machine games. That's one of the initial market niches for the e-table products: when configured properly (i.e. entirely self-service) they qualify as slot machines and fall within the gaming regulations. It's not much different than if you took the old IGT Game King blackjack and put it on 6 bartops in a semi-circle, except the game is better. No even money on BJs, for one thing.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice."
-- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
July 9th, 2011 at 5:37:45 AM
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For what it's worth, the game at Rivers in Pittsburgh offered surrender.
Next trip out there, I think I'll go over to the Carnegie Science Center
Museum , which is next door. They have post WWII submarine docked
on the river and you can tour it for $ 5. Kindof cool.
Next trip out there, I think I'll go over to the Carnegie Science Center
Museum , which is next door. They have post WWII submarine docked
on the river and you can tour it for $ 5. Kindof cool.
There's emptiness behind their eyes
There's dust in all their hearts
They just want to steal us all and take us all apart
July 9th, 2011 at 7:08:43 AM
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Quote: JohnnyQSaw this recently at the Rivers in Pittsburgh. It was blackjack, with regular rules
and a dealer, but each spot at the table had a small flatscreen ( I-pad ? ) that displayed your
card total and your bet.
You used the touchscreen to make your bet.
The interesting thing is that this was at the table with the lowest limit, $ 5.
I wonder if the purpose of this "hybrid" game is to run software that looks for
We sat at the opening of this pit at WoVCON-East. It is not to deter counters. It is to increased hands-per-hour and limit mispays on cheques. With no payout that time is used for dealing. With no "capped" or "barber pole" bets there is no chance the dealer can mispay except when you color-out.
We talked about this in some detail back then, perhaps someone knows the thread?
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
July 9th, 2011 at 7:34:29 AM
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" Yes, the table limits are always lower on these tables than the "normal" tables. Yes, they are all full by 9pm."
There is a message there but casino management rarely recognizes it !!
There is a message there but casino management rarely recognizes it !!
July 9th, 2011 at 3:46:55 PM
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Quote: buzzpaff...people will play at digital tables without a dealer.
It was a while ago since I went there, but isn't there already one in Sydney?
July 9th, 2011 at 4:33:41 PM
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There are lots here in the US
July 9th, 2011 at 4:34:21 PM
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Quote: JohnnyQFor what it's worth, the game at Rivers in Pittsburgh offered surrender.
Next trip out there, I think I'll go over to the Carnegie Science Center
Museum , which is next door. They have post WWII submarine docked
on the river and you can tour it for $ 5. Kindof cool.
JohnnyQ- my son worked at that museum during his undergrduate years and gave me a behind the scenes tour.
It is a great museum. His specialty was the bug collections.
July 9th, 2011 at 4:40:17 PM
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They have post WWII submarine docked
on the river and you can tour it for $ 5. Kindof cool.
I toured that sub also. Now Obama says women can serve on submarines. In those close quarters.
Call me a sexist if you want, but talk about trouble !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
on the river and you can tour it for $ 5. Kindof cool.
I toured that sub also. Now Obama says women can serve on submarines. In those close quarters.
Call me a sexist if you want, but talk about trouble !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
July 9th, 2011 at 5:02:17 PM
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Quote: buzzpaffThey have post WWII submarine docked
on the river and you can tour it for $ 5. Kindof cool.
q]
There is also one in Mobile next to the battleship. Not far from Biloxi. The sub is in dry dock and looks like a derelict from the outside - but inside it looks brand new!
They also have aircraft and vehicles. Definitely worth a look.
July 12th, 2011 at 12:56:05 AM
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My only 2 questions are:
What is table max bet?
What would you/anyone say, is the average penetration level of the, sounds like, manually dealt 6D shoe with a cut card?
Depending on the answer to the first 2 questions, I'll deal with the increased hands/hr and empty seats prior to 9 PM in my own way.
What is table max bet?
What would you/anyone say, is the average penetration level of the, sounds like, manually dealt 6D shoe with a cut card?
Depending on the answer to the first 2 questions, I'll deal with the increased hands/hr and empty seats prior to 9 PM in my own way.
July 12th, 2011 at 5:24:56 PM
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I think the table limits were $ 5 to $ 500. I'm sure of the low end !
And for card penetration, I'm not sure. I'd guess about a deck and
a half but that is just a guess.
And yes, it was a manually dealt 6 deck shoe with a cut card.
And for card penetration, I'm not sure. I'd guess about a deck and
a half but that is just a guess.
And yes, it was a manually dealt 6 deck shoe with a cut card.
There's emptiness behind their eyes
There's dust in all their hearts
They just want to steal us all and take us all apart
July 13th, 2011 at 9:52:31 PM
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Quote: JohnnyQI think the table limits were $ 5 to $ 500. I'm sure of the low end !
And for card penetration, I'm not sure. I'd guess about a deck and
a half but that is just a guess.
And yes, it was a manually dealt 6 deck shoe with a cut card.
Assuming you probably mean dealt down to a deck and a half remaining (75% pen)?, I hope you know what to do!
I think you do, in that your first post seemed to me to be, sort of, along the lines of "what appears too good to be true, probably isn't"?
Can't blame you for perhaps thinking like that, I thought that about internet BJ and bonuses years ago, but, sometimes, just maybe, it could be a rare opportunity.
Of course if you mean a deck and a half is dealt out before the re-shuffle that's a different story.
July 13th, 2011 at 10:37:56 PM
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Quote: buzzpaff" "
There is a message there but casino management rarely recognizes it !!
Just have to ask, what are you implying the message is?
It's OK if you don't want to tip management off publicly what message they are missing.
Like, maybe, you don't initially think the $5 limit would attract players but, now that you know it apparently does, management should raise the limit to make more money per hour? Is that it?
July 30th, 2011 at 7:45:04 PM
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Well, if the I-Table or whatever it is called in anyway helps keep the lower limit tables
open, then I am all for it.
open, then I am all for it.
There's emptiness behind their eyes
There's dust in all their hearts
They just want to steal us all and take us all apart
July 30th, 2011 at 8:18:16 PM
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Quote: Curiousguy11Just have to ask, what are you implying the message is?
It's OK if you don't want to tip management off publicly what message they are missing.
Like, maybe, you don't initially think the $5 limit would attract players but, now that you know it apparently does, management should raise the limit to make more money per hour? Is that it?
No , it is the fact that the $5 tables are full. I have seen too many empty tables with a dealer just standing there , when if the table was a lower limit it would be full. When Colorado had $5 max bet, some casinos had $3 minimum, with most players betting $5.
Next to it would be a $5 table empty. Some would only put $40 in white on the $3 table, so every time a $3 player would win, the
dealer would drag back $2 and give the player a $5 chip. Imagine how much that sped up the game. LOL
Slots now have TITO, hot seats, drawings, etc. And the table games are writing down you buy-in with pen and paper.
Virtually no hard count anymore in slots, BJ table payout system as efficient as Red Skelton's coin changer in the Good Humor
Man. And loss of business due to high limits, rude dealers, etc, is blamed on phantom counters.
August 1st, 2011 at 11:32:16 AM
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After observing the i-Tables in action at Ameristar Council Bluffs last week (I say tables because they had 2 BJ and one 3-card, of which I have discussed in great detail on other threads), I would say that the i-Tables look cool and save a LITTLE bit of time, especially for new dealers. Ameristar seems to be breaking in a bunch of new dealers, so those tables would be much better for them. However, an experienced dealer doesn't seem to go any faster or slower with the tables.
I don't think that's the "future" of table games. I see the Shufflemaster machines with the electronic dealers being more of the future. I've seen more and more of those installed, with some strange games appearing on them (Pai Gow Poker with Fortune side bet at Westin Causarina comes to mind. Ultimate Texas Hold Em which is tough to explain to a newbie anyways). I don't forsee live dealers ever becoming extinct, but the minimums will get higher and higher in order to get that service.
I think that's a trend you see everywhere. As a manager at a higher end department store, you have to pay more to get good service these days. Deals can be had, but you have to know where you look and the casual shopper (or in this case gambler) will have to look extra hard to find them.
I don't think that's the "future" of table games. I see the Shufflemaster machines with the electronic dealers being more of the future. I've seen more and more of those installed, with some strange games appearing on them (Pai Gow Poker with Fortune side bet at Westin Causarina comes to mind. Ultimate Texas Hold Em which is tough to explain to a newbie anyways). I don't forsee live dealers ever becoming extinct, but the minimums will get higher and higher in order to get that service.
I think that's a trend you see everywhere. As a manager at a higher end department store, you have to pay more to get good service these days. Deals can be had, but you have to know where you look and the casual shopper (or in this case gambler) will have to look extra hard to find them.
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
August 2nd, 2011 at 3:17:31 PM
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don't forsee live dealers ever becoming extinct, but the minimums will get higher and higher in order to get that service.
We share the same crystal ball !
We share the same crystal ball !
February 16th, 2012 at 4:40:35 PM
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Quote: JohnnyQSaw this recently at the Rivers in Pittsburgh. It was blackjack, with regular rules
and a dealer, but each spot at the table had a small flatscreen ( I-pad ? ) that displayed your
card total and your bet.
Thought I would share an update on these tables. For those who were not there or don't remember the update, at WoV-East last year we got to play a "beta" hand, would have been the first live hand had the table been working properly or/and hard to get dinner reservations come up. Either way, we saw the opening and what was supposed to be the "new" BJ table--shoe dealt yet no cheques. My take was that maybe I am just being a cynical MAWG but I liked the feel and sound of cheques. There wer 8-10 of these new tables opened that night.
I was at the casino yesterday, and there were only 2-3 of the "touchscreen" tables there, none open in the off day and hour I was there. The rest were gone. In just 11 months.
My guess is that players were not as accepting of them as they thought they would be.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
February 16th, 2012 at 5:02:03 PM
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Quote: Tiltpoul
It still beats the strange tables I saw at Indiana Live on Monday. They have a dealer who honestly does nothing but give high fives to players. It's ENTIRELY electronic, but not like Arkansas, where they push buttons and pay out in checks. No, these dealers just stand there, I guess to make sure nobody punches another person. Instead of a computer in the pit, they had a bar (actually, not a bad idea). But if a dealer isn't present, the game isn't open. They also had two side bets on the game: High-Tie BJ, and Bad Beat.
I know I'm jumping in late on this, too, but when you say Arkansas are you talking Southland Park in West Memphis? I've got a trip planned up to Beale for a birthday, and while I know I can't convince to group to drive down to Tunica, I was wondering if it was worth the time/money to try to get a trip over to the dog tracks. I hear they have "table" games now.
Hotty Toddy!!!
February 16th, 2012 at 6:47:45 PM
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Also late... I-poker will not be too far behind with its friend TITO.
Some people need to reimagine their thinking.
February 16th, 2012 at 7:29:32 PM
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Quote: buzzpaffIt's at the $5 level to try and attract players. Doubt that it will !
The social aspect of table games is one thing that a computer or machine can't do. The day that table games are taken over by computerized machines is the day I stop going to Las Vegas.
February 17th, 2012 at 7:26:28 PM
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Quote: rebelaccountantI know I'm jumping in late on this, too, but when you say Arkansas are you talking Southland Park in West Memphis? I've got a trip planned up to Beale for a birthday, and while I know I can't convince to group to drive down to Tunica, I was wondering if it was worth the time/money to try to get a trip over to the dog tracks. I hear they have "table" games now.
Actually, the dealers at Southland do SOMETHING... there are actual cheques and they press buttons for the electronic cards. The dealers at Indiana Live! don't do ANYTHING... they just encourage players and give high fives. I think they also tend the bar, but they don't turn their back to the table. Whether or not they work on tips I'm not sure...
Southland is OKAY... believe it or not, the trip is worth it, but not for the table games, IMO. I like the "Lock and Roll" slots, as I FEEL like I have some control on a slot machine. I know this isn't the case, but it's fun to hold reels and get another spin. They usually have pretty good sign-up bonuses too. One time I won about $50 on a VP machine with my sign-up bonus.
Edit: The last time I was there was 5 years ago... back then the BJ rules were AMAZINGLY good... S17, DAS, RSA, Surrender, and only 4 "decks." I'm guessing the rules aren't that good anymore, but then again, most people think the electronic decks are rigged anyways.
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
February 18th, 2012 at 7:58:44 AM
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Quote: AlanRRTThe social aspect of table games is one thing that a computer or machine can't do. The day that table games are taken over by computerized machines is the day I stop going to Las Vegas.
For the I-tables at Pittsburgh Rivers, there is still a good
social aspect.
You still get cards. You just make your bet on a little
touch screen. You still sit at a blackjack table. The
times I have been there, the I-tables have lower
limits than the other BJ tables.
It looks to me like the idea is to make it easier for the
dealer, because the little computer screen also tells
the dealer whether you won or not.
The rules at Pittsburgh for BJ are decent. Dealer
stands on all 17's, you can surrender, etc. I don't
know all the rules there since they aren't posted.
But if I recall correctly, you can also DAS.
There's emptiness behind their eyes
There's dust in all their hearts
They just want to steal us all and take us all apart
February 18th, 2012 at 11:36:54 AM
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Quote: Tiltpoul
Southland is OKAY... believe it or not, the trip is worth it, but not for the table games, IMO. I like the "Lock and Roll" slots, as I FEEL like I have some control on a slot machine. I know this isn't the case, but it's fun to hold reels and get another spin. They usually have pretty good sign-up bonuses too. One time I won about $50 on a VP machine with my sign-up bonus.
.
I think I do remember hearing about a 20 dollar free play for new members, so if I'm already up that way it's definitely worth the trip over, and I've never actually played the dogs before, so that might make it a little more interesting.
Hotty Toddy!!!
