Is it Worth It

In the day and age of 8 deck shoes, is it even worth it to learn to card count? I would like to give it a shot but given the amount of time needed to get from here to there, I have reservations. Could some of you give me your opinion? (Hey, my first post!)

Depends how you define “worth it”. Depends on where you live and how much you’re making now. Depends how good you are at other AP skills.

Welcome to the forum :)

Also as a side note knowing how to card count is important if you want to work in surveillance… to catch card counters. So if you’re looking for a new career it could be worth it in that way

I would put it this way. It’s not worth it.

You seem worried that it will take some time to become proficient (and, for many people, save up an initial bankroll). If you weren't studying card counting, what would you be doing instead?

There are surely worse hobbies. Why, from a storage space perspective alone, a wholesome hobby like reading comic books can quickly overwhelm a dwelling, where a dozen decks of cards, a shoe, some chips, and a rug take up practically nothing by comparison.

I am comfortably retired and live about 2 hours away from 4 “riverboat” style casinos. I make it to Vegas about once a year and could do week long vacations in the Gulfport area a couple of times a year.

So I’m not looking for work, I just would like to play a non-negative EV game and keep my mind agile. A break even game would be worth it for me.

I have plenty of time and I would be happy if I could break even. But I guess break even would be my bottom line, I don’t have to make money, I just don’t want to lose money.

You sound like a fine candidate.

Never underestimate the power of taking a break. Simply not playing (restroom, phone call, or...) when the deck turns sour can help substantially, from a cash play side.

I'd definitely read Comp City, if you haven't. I expect that the current offers will be less generous than what is described in the heyday, but playing enough to get dinner and gas money covered is probably viable.

Quote: ehtelgaeb

I would like to give it a shot but

There's your answer. Give it a shot.

Quote: ehtelgaeb

given the amount of time needed to get from here to there, I have reservations.

Counting through a deck takes like one minute. Then do some reading and watch some videos, which can take a few hours or many hours. Put in whatever time you would like to. Then more practice exercises for however much or however little time you would like. Then go to the casino and put your skills into action. I would say for whatever amount of time you would like, but it's really the casino that decides how much time you can do it for.

Counting cards? Absolutely not. Casinos kick people out for less. It's already 2 hours each way to your favorite spots. Just play it with flat bets and see if you can manage Basic Strategy. I'm guessing minimum bets will be $10/$15 and if you have 100X that you could make a few buy-ins with that. I usually do 20 or 25 bet buy-ins per session. If you have to split a hand 4 ways and double down on each, that's 8 bets, so I prefer 25 bet buy-ins for those; 20 bet buy-ins where only 1 split is allowed like on Virtual Black Jack Machines with the nice backglass of a female dealer, and there might be a $5 minimum on those.
Figure out how to double or triple your buy-ins without counting cards. You may not get more than 15 bets ahead in several hours.

Quote: ChumpChange

Counting cards? Absolutely not. Casinos kick people out for less. It's already 2 hours each way to your favorite spots. Just play it with flat bets and see if you can manage Basic Strategy. I'm guessing minimum bets will be $10/$15 and if you have 100X that you could make a few buy-ins with that. I usually do 20 or 25 bet buy-ins per session. If you have to split a hand 4 ways and double down on each, that's 8 bets, so I prefer 25 bet buy-ins for those; 20 bet buy-ins where only 1 split is allowed like on Virtual Black Jack Machines with the nice backglass of a female dealer, and there might be a $5 minimum on those.
Figure out how to double or triple your buy-ins without counting cards. You may not get more than 15 bets ahead in several hours.
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No one has ever gotten kicked out of a casino for counting cards. You get kicked out for an excessive spread.

So use less of a spread. There are plenty of games where you will make a small profit with a 1:2 or 1:3 spread, plus comps, and you will not get kicked out for that kind of a spread. Use lots of playing indices. A fun and easy way to do it is use the unbalanced insurance count for everything. Hey maybe I'll write that up!

Interesting, for example.

Quote: ehtelgaeb

In the day and age of 8 deck shoes, is it even worth it to learn to card count? I would like to give it a shot but given the amount of time needed to get from here to there, I have reservations. Could some of you give me your opinion? (Hey, my first post!)
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I would say yes. Learn to do it and if you come across better games you will already be qualified.

Thanks Gang. Appreciate the comments and suggestions.

Quote: ehtelgaeb

I have plenty of time and I would be happy if I could break even. But I guess break even would be my bottom line, I don’t have to make money, I just don’t want to lose money.
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You will probably lose money after expenses.

The general approach taken by most modern card counters is to use high-variance mega-spreads and get banned everywhere. That's not appropriate for your situation.

You can try the comp game but it is hard to get a good rate these days and you'll have difficulty covering your expenses with them even if you can break-even otherwise, imo comps are heavily over-hyped as a source of profit. It isn't really a lot of fun either, the fluctuations if you play basic strategy or a small spread are basically infinite. I'd do something more enjoyable and productive with your time.