IWannaBeAP
IWannaBeAP
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October 29th, 2022 at 2:35:34 AM permalink
I feel like I may have stuck gold with finding casinos with huge oversights. Hereís one with surveillance. 

But maybe itís actually normal?

As I previously made clear, Iím a card counter so Iím naturally scared of pitbosses and surveillance. Fearing surveillance would see my play and catch me. 

Well, in this casinoÖ

Min table bet is $200 and this guy has been betting $100. I didnít say anything just to see how the dealer would react. Dealer didnít say anything. Pit boss barely checked the table for some reason. And he was able to get way with betting half the min bet for more than an hour, before being caught byÖ guessÖ the break dealer. YeahÖ wtf

If surveillance isnít capable of catching someone betting below table min, how the hell are they going to catch card counters. 
So Iím tempted to conclude surveillance just isnít watching at all. (Despite it being a high limit table). But I want to hear what you guys think.
Hunterhill
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teliot
October 29th, 2022 at 2:44:33 AM permalink
Surveillance doesnít care about that.
Itís up to the dealer and the floor to notice that.
The mountain is tall but grass grows on top of the mountain.
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
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TigerWu
October 29th, 2022 at 3:03:51 AM permalink
The $100 player may simply have been grandfathered in.
OnceDear
OnceDear
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October 29th, 2022 at 3:25:36 AM permalink
Quote: IWannaBeAP

I feel like I may have stuck gold with finding casinos with huge oversights. Hereís one with surveillance. 

But maybe itís actually normal?

As I previously made clear, Iím a card counter so Iím naturally scared of pitbosses and surveillance. Fearing surveillance would see my play and catch me. 

Well, in this casinoÖ

Min table bet is $200 and this guy has been betting $100. I didnít say anything just to see how the dealer would react. Dealer didnít say anything. Pit boss barely checked the table for some reason. And he was able to get way with betting half the min bet for more than an hour, before being caught byÖ guessÖ the break dealer. YeahÖ wtf

If surveillance isnít capable of catching someone betting below table min, how the hell are they going to catch card counters. 
So Iím tempted to conclude surveillance just isnít watching at all. (Despite it being a high limit table). But I want to hear what you guys think.
link to original post



Maybe, the surveil, when they are roused to surveil. E.g. when they see someone agitated or shifty looking, or when the pit asks them to.
Psalm 25:16 Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted. Proverbs 18:2 A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
DRich
DRich
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October 29th, 2022 at 3:35:46 AM permalink
Quote: OnceDear

Quote: IWannaBeAP

I feel like I may have stuck gold with finding casinos with huge oversights. Hereís one with surveillance. 

But maybe itís actually normal?

As I previously made clear, Iím a card counter so Iím naturally scared of pitbosses and surveillance. Fearing surveillance would see my play and catch me. 

Well, in this casinoÖ

Min table bet is $200 and this guy has been betting $100. I didnít say anything just to see how the dealer would react. Dealer didnít say anything. Pit boss barely checked the table for some reason. And he was able to get way with betting half the min bet for more than an hour, before being caught byÖ guessÖ the break dealer. YeahÖ wtf

If surveillance isnít capable of catching someone betting below table min, how the hell are they going to catch card counters. 
So Iím tempted to conclude surveillance just isnít watching at all. (Despite it being a high limit table). But I want to hear what you guys think.
link to original post



Maybe, the surveil, when they are roused to surveil. E.g. when they see someone agitated or shifty looking, or when the pit asks them to.
link to original post



As Hunter said, surveillance would have zero interest in that.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
darkoz
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OnceDear
October 29th, 2022 at 4:32:56 AM permalink
Surveillance is 2-4 guys monitoring 2500 cameras

How do they do that? By watching thumbnails spread out in front of them.

They are doing visual acuity scans or basically just letting their eyes roam hoping they catch a detail that's off.

They're also drinking coffee and not trying to stress so they aren't looking at minimum wagers not being met at a table.

They are looking for violence against machines or people, children who may wander onto the gaming floor or abandoned by their parents in the food court so they can gamble, underage teenagers, purse snatchers if they see a purse left on a chair

In other words things they can spot from cursory examination that are red flags.

Everything else they leave up to the floor dealers and security

You are probably going to ask what about evicted patrons. Recently evicted patrons or people they have flagged as suspicious they will monitor their movements and keep an eye out for when they enter the Casino. I find if you are flagged, just switching shifts, especially the late shift sometimes works because often the warning to watch for a particular person isn't communicated to the other shift.

If you have been evicted and some time (a year or more) has passed they aren't looking for you and you can roam around. But you are in the computer amongst every other evicted person and periodically they are supposed to scan through those files. So that's usually when you get caught. You could be evicted from a casino and roaming around in it for three months and security doesn't bother you and then suddenly someone who just saw your face in a file review recognizes you.

A lot of these tips come directly from a surveillance guy in a casino that my AP partner was lucky to have known since childhood.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
AlanMendelson
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UP84
October 29th, 2022 at 4:38:45 AM permalink
The #1 job of surveillance is watching the employees.
Gandler
Gandler
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October 29th, 2022 at 7:59:30 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

The $100 player may simply have been grandfathered in.
link to original post



This is quite possible, I've been at BJ tables a couple times where the limit was raised well into play as the casino starts to get busier later in the evening, and they just let me and the others who have been there continue to bet the prior minimum until we get out of our seat. I am not sure if this happens with other games, I have only experience it in BJ. (I have also experienced when the limit has been raised, and they said starting in X amount of bets everyone must switch to the new limit or leave).

But, I also don't think this is something surveillance/security would care about (unless you get warned to increase your bet to the minimum and keep attempting to bet below), I suspect its left to the floor's discretion about how strictly minimums are enforced.
MDawg
MDawg
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October 29th, 2022 at 8:14:45 AM permalink
Surveillance doesnít look for violations of the minimum bet placed - but they do look for violations of the max bet placed. This might have to do with that theyíre watching higher limit tables period more than the small fry.

Surveillance also looks for situations where a player was overpaid. Including for example say on "commissionless" Baccarat tables where full pay was made on a half pay win.

Iíve been there when the phone rang in both situations.

Speaking of which - you'd think that by now they would have gotten to the point of some kind of electronic message on a screen, but no - it's still the old fashioned phone call from "upstairs" that alerts the pit boss to a situation.
Last edited by: MDawg on Oct 29, 2022
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billryan
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October 29th, 2022 at 8:34:32 AM permalink
I think part of the game is watching the suspected counter when the phone rings. Do they act/bet differently after the pit gets that mysterious call?
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
MDawg
MDawg
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October 29th, 2022 at 8:38:58 AM permalink
As far as I know, that sort of close watching, for a card counter, is initiated by the pit boss. The pit boss calls surveillance asks them to watch such and such player closely.

I am sure it happens the other way too, with surveillance initiating the watch, but I think generally the pit boss directs the action for that.
I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
billryan
billryan
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October 29th, 2022 at 8:41:44 AM permalink
Sometimes. Sometimes security actually recognizes the person, or has been watching them in another pit.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
MDawg
MDawg
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October 29th, 2022 at 8:43:39 AM permalink
Yes that's true. A known card counter, or anyone not welcome in the casino, surveillance picks him up, sure.
I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
heatmap
heatmap
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October 29th, 2022 at 10:08:21 AM permalink
Quote: IWannaBeAP

I feel like I may have stuck gold with finding casinos with huge oversights. Hereís one with surveillance. 

But maybe itís actually normal?

As I previously made clear, Iím a card counter so Iím naturally scared of pitbosses and surveillance. Fearing surveillance would see my play and catch me. 

Well, in this casinoÖ

Min table bet is $200 and this guy has been betting $100. I didnít say anything just to see how the dealer would react. Dealer didnít say anything. Pit boss barely checked the table for some reason. And he was able to get way with betting half the min bet for more than an hour, before being caught byÖ guessÖ the break dealer. YeahÖ wtf

If surveillance isnít capable of catching someone betting below table min, how the hell are they going to catch card counters. 
So Iím tempted to conclude surveillance just isnít watching at all. (Despite it being a high limit table). But I want to hear what you guys think.
link to original post




they dont need to be watching they have cameras to do that... when something happens they can review the footage and make their choice
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