Golden Oldie Moving to Vegas
just be careful. That’s structuring and it’s a federal crime.Quote: VegasriderMany poker tournament winnings are paid out in gaming chips vs cash. You receive a W2G but there is no CTR to complete. However if you go to the cage and try to cash out any amount in excess of $10k, then a CTR is required. To beat the system, enlist others to help you cash your chips. Give them $2500 each, or simply cash out under $10k everyday.
Quote: TDVegasBut you’re going to have to continue to do it. One timers, here and there’s likely won’t have an issue. A card counter is going to have to do this on a regular basis.
My argument is that eventually one or several casinos will figure out what you’re doing if there’s a structuring attempt. Obviously there is. Once one knows you’re doing it and it’s tied to card counting…they all know.
Mr TD. After reviewing the blackjack survey there are only 10 casinos worth visiting on my prospecting trip. I see no reason to consider Data participants that aren't offering a decent game in the first place. No need to check out the tiny whineys either. Not ready to play $100 shoes until Im convinced 6 decks can be beaten.
One of my questions will be about allowing one and two hand play on 2 deck games. If one can't go back and forth, the game is a threshold at best. Not an advantage.
Quote: moses
One of my questions will be about allowing one and two hand play on 2 deck games. If one can't go back and forth, the game is a threshold at best. Not an advantage.
I think most casinos willallow you to do this. Understand that is one of the signs that will catch the pits attention. They know counters do this regularly. It is probably a good idea to leave the table at the end of the deck when playing multiple hands at an advantage.
Aria; Bellagio; Ceasars Palace; Encore; Flamingo; Harrahs; MGM Grand; Mirage; Venetion; Westgate.
I look forward to input as to which ones I should add to or remove from this list.
9 out of 10 are on Las Vegas Blvd South. 8 are between 3355 and 3799. Are these within walking distance? If so, where is the best place to park?
Im in good shape. Efficiency is a high consideration. My lady is a machine player and from Cal. So comps and rooms are also doable.
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/ARIA+Resort+%26+Casino,+3730+S+Las+Vegas+Blvd,+Las+Vegas,+NV+89158/Encore+at+Wynn+Las+Vegas,+Las+Vegas+Boulevard+South,+Las+Vegas,+NV/@36.1251753,-115.1755677,14z/data=!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x80c8c42e1d156485:0x2ef3882f44b3056f!2m2!1d-115.1765836!2d36.1073485!1m5!1m1!1s0x80c8c2cc6478404b:0x99211dfe55920dc6!2m2!1d-115.1670598!2d36.1280209!3e2
Quote: mosesMr TD. After reviewing the blackjack survey there are only 10 casinos worth visiting on my prospecting trip. I see no reason to consider Data participants that aren't offering a decent game in the first place. No need to check out the tiny whineys either. Not ready to play $100 shoes until Im convinced 6 decks can be beaten.
One of my questions will be about allowing one and two hand play on 2 deck games. If one can't go back and forth, the game is a threshold at best. Not an advantage.
So, you are going to take $200,000 per year for 10 years from these 10 casinos, totaling about $2,000,000 from 10 casinos….playing, I assume on some type of regular, rotating basis as one needs to actually apply his craft to make money, right? In the same realm, you are also going to attempt some form of structuring in the process, also attempting to remain under the radar.
And you think all of this will go unnoticed or “don’t care” by the casinos…with the idea that if 1 casino catches on to your not only advantage play card counting but also attempting to “hide your tracks”, money wise.
Yeah…I’m skeptical.
Quote: DRichI think most casinos willallow you to do this. Understand that is one of the signs that will catch the pits attention. They know counters do this regularly. It is probably a good idea to leave the table at the end of the deck when playing multiple hands at an advantage.
If you are winning regular money on a consistent play basis..meaning they know your face, how long is it going to take the casino to figure out he’s a card counter and “just let him be” is going to be the mentality of the pit?
Quote: TDVegasI” is going to be the mentality of the pit?
Since the reopening, I have noticed that many of the floor in the pits did not return, and were replaced by junior type employees, novice at best identifying AP. At least here in Reno/Sparks.
Quote: TDVegasSo, you are going to take $200,000 per year for 10 years from these 10 casinos, totaling about $2,000,000 from 10 casinos….playing, I assume on some type of regular, rotating basis as one needs to actually apply his craft to make money, right? In the same realm, you are also going to attempt some form of structuring in the process, also attempting to remain under the radar.
And you think all of this will go unnoticed or “don’t care” by the casinos…with the idea that if 1 casino catches on to your not only advantage play card counting but also attempting to “hide your tracks”, money wise.
Yeah…I’m skeptical.
Well...when you put it that way? Im a little skeptical as well. On average, I know people hate that word, it breaks down to $1667 per month per casino.
Im going out on limb here and say Im thinking you're a pit boss. A damn good one with years of experience and a person with a great deal of integrity.
I dont think a $50 min bet player with a 1 to 12 spread is going to have to cover tracks or structure. Certainly playing within casino tolerance. No?
Once, i witnessed a counter play two hands. he was like a machine. Very fast.
You cant spread to two hands on double deck without being shown the door in very short order. That's almost as chicken shoot as 6.5.
Most everything else on the blackjack survey appear to be tiny whineys.
So where is all this money being made?
Today, I dont know what the conditions are like, rules or tolerances
A tiny whiney see's it as a $300 bet on a $10 min. table.
So those casinos tolerances will be less accepted. If one is getting backed off? Obviously, they have exceeded tolerance. A dangerous thing to go back, it only takes one to take it personal.
So where is all this money being made?
Quote: DRichMoses, when are you moving to Vegas? If it is in the next three months I will sell you my house as I am moving to Florida to die,
I have alot to do before I move. Right now, based on responses, Im not sure Vegas is even worth checking out. I was hoping to go in August.
I have fam that just moved to Tampa. Loves it. I wish you all the best.
One thing is for sure. I will be well prepared before I ever play one hand from a shoe in Vegas.
Quote: mosesI do not believe the shoe is beatable. Too many variables. But I will begin the process IF I determine it's worth the work.
One thing is for sure. I will be well prepared before I ever play one hand from a shoe in Vegas.
Shoes are definitely beatable, just at what monetary level is the question. You can definitely average a $100k a year on shoes betting $50-$300. You would just have to play short sessions and have a big rotation of casinos.
Quote: DRichShoes are definitely beatable, just at what monetary level is the question. You can definitely average a $100k a year on shoes betting $50-$300. You would just have to play short sessions and have a big rotation of casinos.
The blackjack survey indicates about 10 casinos are worth checking out. But a long time successful player says to stay off the strip. That leaves zippo. Where is this big rotation to come from? What do you consider a big rotation?
Vegas casinos wont allow going back and forth from 1 to 2 hands on double deck? What is wrong with those guys? What is wrong with people to support that restriction?
Quote: mosesThe blackjack survey indicates about 10 casinos are worth checking out. But a long time successful player says to stay off the strip. That leaves zippo. Where is this big rotation to come from? What do you consider a big rotation?
Vegas casinos wont allow going back and forth from 1 to 2 hands on double deck? What is wrong with those guys? What is wrong with people to support that restriction?
I think there are more than 10 casinos you can check out if you move from two decks to six.
Quote: unJonI think there are more than 10 casinos you can check out if you move from two decks to six.
Aria; Ballys; Bellagio; Venetion; Westgate offer $50 6 deck shoes.
MGM and Red Rock offer $25 6 deck shoes.
Quote: billryanYou're right. You won't make two million dollars in the next ten years. The dream is dead. Don't bother moving.
Not even worth commuting. That John Denver is full of crap man. 😄
ALso bill Kj claimed he only makes 1/5 of his income through video poker how did you get more than half?
so if your remotely successful they will ask you to leave and not come back and if you fail then that sucks dont see a bright side to this and your theory of a magical rotation is flawed as everyone says if it were that ez everyone would be doing it (come to think of it in atlantic city 6am any given casino everyone is doing it!!!)
Quote: mosesThe blackjack survey indicates about 10 casinos are worth checking out. But a long time successful player says to stay off the strip. That leaves zippo. Where is this big rotation to come from? What do you consider a big rotation?
Personally I think it would be foolish to limit yourself to $50 minimum tables. There are lots of games that can be beat for smaller amounts.
In sports betting, piching changes can be an unwritten rule. Otherwise, it's "what you see is what you get."
I hadnt even considered all the different shuffles that come with six deck shoes.
Based on the blackjack survey I dont see how a rotation of small games $5 to $25 min. could be implemented.
Quote: dawinnaatlozinsokay suppose you go with this blackjack game great, you go in lose 3-5 grand due to bad luck (or normal vairiance) and then you look up cause someone is taping you on the shoulder asking you to leave? wheres the bright side of this Moses? can you really risk 4 grand followed by a banning in hopes of never getting back your cash? 1 ban is followed by another eventually
If losing $4k is a big problem he definitely shouldn't be gambling. I would assume he needs a minimum of $50k to even think about it and probably should have at least $100k in his BJ bankroll.
If I had it to do all over again (which would be the case in Vegas) I wouldve never bothered with small casinos or red chip minimums. Those are the most intolerant.
I once went from a $5 single hand to $15 two hands. The lady pit boss screams "stop the game, stop the game."😰
Well, here comes the Principal. I figure he's going to run me off. Instead he hands me the keys to the gym.
Norm's products are the keys to the gym.🤔
I have ran several sims that look good on paper. But when I view the charts and play it out on Verite, I determine that has to be a better way. Im looking at my time as well as a money investment.
KJ (sorry to use his name when a Restricted User cant respond) once spoke to his way of the cancel out process. This led me to a conclusion that whole numbers will provide far more flexibily than 1/2 point counts. If I go beyond this, it will blow everyones mind. So I simply say thanks KJ.
It lead me to a one size fits all count. And no Im not writing any damn book.
IMO for every KJ there is a ZenKing. For every ZenKing there are 1000 who tried and failed. Im sorry, but based on the blackjack survey and the responses in this thread, I dont see being limited to a 6 deck shoe in Vegas as a viable business plan.
Quite frankly, based on the blackjack survey, I am not able comprehend KJ's rotation and returns to so many backoffs.
Also, I dont believe college football can be beat. But my cousin proves me wrong almost every season. 6 deck shoes and college football have so many variables. I dont think 5 and 6 team parleys is a good investment. But this 89 year young guy contunues to prove me wrong.
Quote: dawinnaatlozinsi disagree Drich, 500$ is considerable alot of money to people bill gates plays 5$ blackjack table and his wealth is vast, there are people out there who look upon 500$ as if it were 50k and yet they blow 12k a year on food shopping alone!(cause they are just that rich) but couldnt bare to lose 500 at a casino? to each his own i say, 40k to you maybe 4k to someone else money is a funny bird im much like a bear to it meaning if i have a lot of it i dont mind losing or helping friends/family but as a bear you see me eating and join me and theres only room for 1 head here then i will get pizzed
I don't disagree that $500 is a lot of money. But it shouldn't be to someone who's goal is to win $2 million dollars playing blackjack playing $50 to $300 per hand.
over a 10 year span.Quote: DRichI don't disagree that $500 is a lot of money. But it shouldn't be to someone who's goal is to win $2 million dollars playing blackjack playing $50 to $300 per hand.
Quote: mosesIn all fairness. I have not ran a 6 deck sim. Probably wont until I plan to be active in the game which is unlikely.
I have ran several sims that look good on paper. But when I view the charts and play it out on Verite, I determine that has to be a better way. Im looking at my time as well as a money investment.
KJ (sorry to use his name when a Restricted User cant respond) once spoke to his way of the cancel out process. This led me to a conclusion that whole numbers will provide far more flexibily than 1/2 point counts. If I go beyond this, it will blow everyones mind. So I simply say thanks KJ.
It lead me to a one size fits all count. And no Im not writing any damn book.
IMO for every KJ there is a ZenKing. For every ZenKing there are 1000 who tried and failed. Im sorry, but based on the blackjack survey and the responses in this thread, I dont see being limited to a 6 deck shoe in Vegas as a viable business plan.
Quite frankly, based on the blackjack survey, I am not able comprehend KJ's rotation and returns to so many backoffs.
Also, I dont believe college football can be beat. But my cousin proves me wrong almost every season. 6 deck shoes and college football have so many variables. I dont think 5 and 6 team parleys is a good investment. But this 89 year young guy contunues to prove me wrong.
You're basing an awful lot on the survey. When I left Vegas a few weeks ago what I was seeing wasn't even close to what the survey says.
And in a few months it will probably be different again.
Quote: joedolYou're basing an awful lot on the survey. When I left Vegas a few weeks ago what I was seeing wasn't even close to what the survey says.
And in a few months it will probably be different again.
A successful player for over a decade span says to stay away from $50 min bet 6 shoes and up. Cant bet 1 and 2 hands on double deck games which are closely hawked. Stay off the strip.
What's left to play? How do you get a rotation of 10, 25, 30 casinos after all that has been eliminated?
If someone were coming to Northern Neveda. Id say check out Silver Legacy, El Dorado, GSR, Nugget, Atlantis, and Peppermill.
Two in Tahoe Montbleu and Harolds. Maybe Harrahs or they are one the same.
That would leave you 8 places to check out for your rotation.
But Vegas is all over the place. Dont go here. Cant do that.
What is left?
So why go through all the work on Norm's products?
Based on the number of solids in Vegas, Id go check them out.
Then go to work if I thought it was doable.
thats the question and imo from what i read answer is no, even Colins latest youtube video shows a counter burns himself out in a mere 115 hours i think he said hi limit stakes around 27hours, all fair and well if you get das boot by 115th hour and your winning more power to you but suppose you in the down swing of your life? can you really take the households income and gamble the casinos will tolerate you? even the guy who filmed himself going to casinos through the usa in an RV got backed off and you said you got backed off playing a lousy 15$ bet, i honestly feel no good will come from card counting because of the backoffs, its your money/life maybe you be another ZK or KJ and avoid detection and win forever
Quote: dawinnaatlozinsMoses, tis not a question if the game can be beaten by you or not the question is will the casino tolerate you taking $$$ from them each day, week,month year?
thats the question and imo from what i read answer is no, even Colins latest youtube video shows a counter burns himself out in a mere 115 hours i think he said hi limit stakes around 27hours, all fair and well if you get das boot by 115th hour and your winning more power to you but suppose you in the down swing of your life? can you really take the households income and gamble the casinos will tolerate you? even the guy who filmed himself going to casinos through the usa in an RV got backed off and you said you got backed off playing a lousy 15$ bet, i honestly feel no good will come from card counting because of the backoffs, its your money/life maybe you be another ZK or KJ and avoid detection and win forever
To be fair. I didnt get backed off over $15. I exited because it was clear I couldnt get a fair game. I did go back and the pit boss/dice dealer said there is no way a counter can beat blackjack. I agreed based on their rules. We agreed to a friendly compition and rules. He'd keep coming over and checking the tray. I was up maybe $300, I dont remember exactly. But it wasnt much.
Anyway, I ask "wouldn't it be easier to count my chips as opposed to the tray"? It was then he banned me.
Harrahs was like walking into Cheers. Can we raise the table limit from $10 to $25min? Sure, for you, no problem. Then one day no one said a word. I was given the tap and speech before the first deck was completed. So yes, red chip min. tables make me twitchy.
Quote: mosesAria; Ballys; Bellagio; Venetion; Westgate offer $50 6 deck shoes.
MGM and Red Rock offer $25 6 deck shoes.
Again, only 7 casinos. Belligio is the only one that lists it also has a $25min 6 deck shoe.
The rest are either $100min. or you'd have to ask them to bump from red chip to green chip. No? So now you'd likely be the top player at the table. Or have red chip ploppies coming and going if casino doesnt raise the minimums. And you've put a big target on your back.
Single deck spreads are limited. Ive learned to play the min. listed. Otherwise, there is hell to pay. So yes, $50 doubles $25 min. and $100 min. doublea $50. It's just a black chip instead of green.
Not sure about the dodge and pony ahow KJ employs.
The whole Vegas thing doesnt make much sense. Let alone dollars.😉 The idea of paying to park and deal with lines and crowds on the strip has little appeal. Even worse on a Saturday night. No?
Everyone knows you and Mosses hate each other and always did. Now you’re going to pretend this thread you created is about helping him adjust to Las Vegas.
Sorry but I think I should address Mr.Black of the Hole. Um. It's pronounced Moses. I know, I know Im sorry about dropping that tablet. But I still maintain the world is a better place with only 10 C's. I mean you should've seen the other 5.😰
Quote: mosesBlackhole writes:
Everyone knows you and Mosses hate each other and always did. Now you’re going to pretend this thread you created is about helping him adjust to Las Vegas.
Sorry but I think I should address Mr.Black of the Hole. Um. It's pronounced Moses. I know, I know Im sorry about dropping that tablet. But I still maintain the world is a better place with only 10 C's. I mean you should've seen the other 5.😰
I don't understand your quote. I don't see anyone named "Blackhole" who has replied in this thread. Who is Blackhole and where did this quote come from? Also who do you hate?
Quote: vegasI don't understand your quote. I don't see anyone named "Blackhole" who has replied in this thread. Who is Blackhole and where did this quote come from? Also who do you hate?
It was a joke. This was a qoute from another "sight." Did I say hate? It is such a stong word.
Thanks Mr. 21forme. I agree. Still, I finshed my homework this morning. There are 27 casinos that only offer red action. 15 of which are Quick to backoff. Sweat Green Action. Data Participant. Machine shuffle after every hand (Orleans).Quote: 21formemoses - IMO, your plan won't work. As others have stated, DD is a counter trap in Vegas and playing HL games for any length of time will result in quick backoffs. As Richard Munchkin has said many times, "Vegas is the worst place in the country to count cards." If you want to move to Vegas, you'll need to expand your AP repertoire. It's a good hub for travel, as there are so many flights, so you could roam the country from there.
This leaves 12 scattered all over. My experience with red action joints is like Clint Eastwood in High Plains Drifter. The ones who sweat? Act like Jason from Halloween walked in. 😨
Quote: mosesA successful player for over a decade span says to stay away from $50 min bet 6 shoes and up. Cant bet 1 and 2 hands on double deck games which are closely hawked. Stay off the strip.
What's left to play? How do you get a rotation of 10, 25, 30 casinos after all that has been eliminated?
It sounds like you are debating vegas because you are using your life savings as a bankroll. Theres alot of variance. I would go if im retired with extra cash on top of a retirement savings to gamble. Risking your savings is going to be stressfull unless you apportion money that you are willing to lose and stay secure and have a plan b.
When i visited vegas half a year ago. It was slow. As a card counter, you are going to be spotted faster. Im sure vegas will jump back. You may want to visit vegas. There are a ton of casinos. But a fraction of the tables were full.
I came to realize from this thread to stay put, increase my bet and change my routine. I found peace here for the last decade and learned Id stay even without casinos.
Casinos are swamped here. Weekdays are like weekends. Weekends are like holidays. Holidays are like just stay home.
So my routine reverses to weekdays off and weekend play at the black chip tables. Quantity of hands will reduce 50% pre covid. But my jump from $25 to 100 mins means income will double with half the play.
.
Casino tolerance is key. Get in. Get paid. Get out. Dont Get greedy.
After reading and learning about Vegas, the choices are either to battle parking, lots of walking, lines, and crowds on the strip to play some green chip and alot of black chip.
Or fight the red chip low budget sweaty casinos around the perimeter.
IF the successful one is making $50k a year? He is earning every nickel.
