Counting with your chips?

lets say i walk up to a table and i buy various colors just to make it look like im going to do some sidebets and tipping. now ive got a serious issue with playing with my chips but even though its out in the open for the camera to see how stupid would it be to keep a count with chips. this is not my idea but ive pulled it from something ive read in passing

You have to keep the count in your head. If you try to go from your head to manipulating chip stacks and chip colors you introduce another layer of complexity that wouldn't look natural, and would be very difficult to do in a live game where the count changes quickly.

But there are different techniques you can employ. For instance, lay your hand naturally on the table and slightly press your index finger down and hold it there when the count is +2, or the pinky if the count is +5. This action is inpreceptiable. And you can use a chip count from time to time (both these suggestions should only be done sparingly, and you can talk or socialize while keeping the count. This could be done when there are lulls in the game). You have to find out what works you.

Quote: heatmap

lets say i walk up to a table and i buy various colors just to make it look like im going to do some sidebets and tipping. now ive got a serious issue with playing with my chips but even though its out in the open for the camera to see how stupid would it be to keep a count with chips. this is not my idea but ive pulled it from something ive read in passing

There are techniques that use chips as counting tools, such as rotate left 8th of a turn for -1 right for +1 etc.
However though card counting in itself is not illegal or cheating, the use of 'devices' to assist with the count are considered illegal in many jurisdictions and the chip would be considered such a 'device'... if the casino spotted it.
Not worth the risk in my opinion.

Quote: heatmap

lets say i walk up to a table and i buy various colors just to make it look like im going to do some sidebets and tipping. now ive got a serious issue with playing with my chips but even though its out in the open for the camera to see how stupid would it be to keep a count with chips. this is not my idea but ive pulled it from something ive read in passing

This is my educated theory but I would assume many people if they wanted to cheat/do advantages would do the counting in a bathroom stall not do something as open on camera.

Depending on how you do it, pit and some dealers may be able to pick up on it. But like any counting, at the lower levels / short duration, if they are smart enough to figure it out, they're also smart enough to know it's far too trivial to do anything about. At higher / longer levels, they probably don't want to have to defend their decisions against the cameras, so the more obvious you are, the more likely it will cost you.

I've tried it, but my preference is to just say the count out loud, quietly mumbling "plus two, plus three," to myself.

Quote: OnceDear

...the use of 'devices' to assist with the count are considered illegal in many jurisdictions

Was it the late Paigow Dan who argued that fingers and even your mind were "devices" and therefore just as illegal as chips?

If so, then making a determination to hit, stand, split or double would inherently involve the "device" of your brain, and also be prohibited.

[Sorry, it's a slow day and I just wanted to incite more responses to this thread. R.I.P. Dan.]

Quote: racquet

Was it the late Paigow Dan who argued that fingers and even your mind were "devices" and therefore just as illegal as chips?

If so, then making a determination to hit, stand, split or double would inherently involve the "device" of your brain, and also be prohibited.

[Sorry, it's a slow day and I just wanted to incite more responses to this thread. R.I.P. Dan.]

RIP but PGD was a bit extreme when it came to his opinion of Advantage play.

I think the law specifically states that a mechanical or electronic device is illegal.

Bob Nersessian has said that he believes counting with an Abacus would be legal, so fingers and chips would certainly be fair game. Probably not advisable, but legal.

I do that with white and pink chips whenever someone opens their mouth about me not playing side bets. Whenever they say 'Awww, you didn't play it, you woulda got 20 to 1!' To which I reply, "Yea, I'd only lose 56 bets first, so I'm still 36 bets ahead!" And they usually fire back, "But you woulda won more times then you lost if you played it every time!" And I reply, "I can't win on a bet I'm guaranteed to lose on life time, one or two wins doesn't balance out 40 or 50 losses on it!"

The ones who continue to protest, I then buy $10 in white($1) and $10 in pink($2.50) and offer them a gentlemen's bet. Every time I get a side bet payout hand and fail to play it, I'll put a pink chip in this pile and every time I DO NOT get a side bet, I'll put 1 white chip in a separate pile. If the pink chip pile is bigger at the end of the shoe, I'll give you $100. However, if the White chip pile is bigger at the end of the shoe, you give me $100! They usually then decline thinking I'm trying to scam them and I retort "But you're so sure I'll make money, how can you lose? according to your logic, I'll get more side bets and you seem to know that for sure!"

They usually then go silent and leave their stupid comments in their pocket. So you can say the piles are for that purpose or something similar and it wouldn't draw much heat to you.

You've already figured the count out in your head in order to stack, rotate, balance, or otherwise manipulate your chips. Just keep it there.

Quote: Nathan

This is my educated theory but I would assume many people if they wanted to cheat/do advantages would do the counting in a bathroom stall not do something as open on camera.

They have blackjack installs in the crapper?

Havent been in the ladies rooms but there arent any in the mens rooms

EDIT: Is that why the women take so long?

Makes sense now why there is always a long line for the ladies room

I'm a novice and recreational player at best (mostly always red chip) but I've done this myself at local casinos. The only issue that I come in to is when the count swings from extremes. If the count is positive ill pile say 5 chips on the right side to designate a +5 RC or on the left in the case of a negative RC.

The issue I find is when it gets to +12 or so as it's odd to have a stack of chips much larger than 5 or 10. I have at times used red and white to assist with this (say 1 red 1 white for RC 6) but it gets difficult trying to make sure you have enough white or adding/removing so I generally stick to 1 color.

I've only ever gotten what I perceived to be heat once and I think it was more paranoia than anything.

Quote: darkoz

They have blackjack installs in the crapper?

Havent been in the ladies rooms but there arent any in the mens rooms

EDIT: Is that why the women take so long?

Makes sense now why there is always a long line for the ladies room

There are longer lines for the ladies' bathroom because we women have to do more when we use the bathroom than guys do. A guy can be done in about one minute. It takes a woman about 3 minutes to completely be done. ;)

Too Much Information

Quote: Nathan

There are longer lines for the ladies' bathroom because we women have to do more when we use the bathroom than guys do. A guy can be done in about one minute. It takes a woman about 3 minutes to completely be done. ;)

Hah, my girlfriend was genuinely surprised when she figured out there aren’t little rolls of toilet paper next to Urinals in the Men’s bathroom.

“You mean you don’t wipe after you pee?!”

Quote: OnceDear

Too Much Information

I didn't give too much information. I left a lot to the imagination. ;)

Quote: Nathan

There are longer lines for the ladies' bathroom because we women have to do more when we use the bathroom than guys do. A guy can be done in about one minute. It takes a woman about 3 minutes to completely be done. ;)

WARNING - THREAD TANGENT
I thought it was more because there were more, er, "places to go" for men than for women in a typical large-scale restroom. What usually happens is, both have the same amount of space, but you can fit urinals in the men's room where you can't fit additional toilets in the women's room.

Quote: ThatDonGuy

WARNING - THREAD TANGENT
I thought it was more because there were more, er, "places to go" for men than for women in a typical large-scale restroom. What usually happens is, both have the same amount of space, but you can fit urinals in the men's room where you can't fit additional toilets in the women's room.

Oh yeah, you are also correct on two men using restrooms together. One can use the urinal and one can use the stall. Whereas a woman has to wait for the other woman to finish and come out before she can use it. I would be remiss if I didn't mention that I am talking about restrooms with only one stall in it. ;)

Quote: Nathan

Quote: ThatDonGuy

WARNING - THREAD TANGENT
I thought it was more because there were more, er, "places to go" for men than for women in a typical large-scale restroom. What usually happens is, both have the same amount of space, but you can fit urinals in the men's room where you can't fit additional toilets in the women's room.

Oh yeah, you are also correct on two men using restrooms together. One can use the urinal and one can use the stall. Whereas a woman has to wait for the other woman to finish and come out before she can use it. I would be remiss if I didn't mention that I am talking about restrooms with only one stall in it. ;)

In a pinch theres always the sink for the men

Quote: darkoz

Quote: Nathan

Quote: ThatDonGuy

WARNING - THREAD TANGENT
I thought it was more because there were more, er, "places to go" for men than for women in a typical large-scale restroom. What usually happens is, both have the same amount of space, but you can fit urinals in the men's room where you can't fit additional toilets in the women's room.

Oh yeah, you are also correct on two men using restrooms together. One can use the urinal and one can use the stall. Whereas a woman has to wait for the other woman to finish and come out before she can use it. I would be remiss if I didn't mention that I am talking about restrooms with only one stall in it. ;)

In a pinch theres always the sink for the men

Eew. :/

Quote: darkoz

Quote: Nathan

Quote: ThatDonGuy

WARNING - THREAD TANGENT
I thought it was more because there were more, er, "places to go" for men than for women in a typical large-scale restroom. What usually happens is, both have the same amount of space, but you can fit urinals in the men's room where you can't fit additional toilets in the women's room.

Oh yeah, you are also correct on two men using restrooms together. One can use the urinal and one can use the stall. Whereas a woman has to wait for the other woman to finish and come out before she can use it. I would be remiss if I didn't mention that I am talking about restrooms with only one stall in it. ;)

In a pinch theres always the sink for the men

Trash baskets , in a bigger pinch.

Quote: billryan

Quote: darkoz

Quote: Nathan

Quote: ThatDonGuy

WARNING - THREAD TANGENT
I thought it was more because there were more, er, "places to go" for men than for women in a typical large-scale restroom. What usually happens is, both have the same amount of space, but you can fit urinals in the men's room where you can't fit additional toilets in the women's room.

Oh yeah, you are also correct on two men using restrooms together. One can use the urinal and one can use the stall. Whereas a woman has to wait for the other woman to finish and come out before she can use it. I would be remiss if I didn't mention that I am talking about restrooms with only one stall in it. ;)

In a pinch theres always the sink for the men

Trash baskets , in a bigger pinch.

Eh maybe. Most newer public restrooms have metal cubbyholes inlaid on the wall. Kind of looks like a weird urinal but too high up (if youre short like me i guess) might find the angle a bit off for aiming. Maybe tall men :)

Quote: Nathan

This is my educated theory but I would assume many people if they wanted to cheat/do advantages would do the counting in a bathroom stall not do something as open on camera.

I’m afraid to ask how that theory is educated..

The one glaring problem with AP’ing from a bathroom stall is you aren’t actually near any game or machine

Personally i find my threads turning into a bathroom thread funny as hell I don't even know the original question anymore haha