ID Legality at the cage
Quote: ZenKinG
Ive officially had it and things are about to change very soon.
What did you mean by this?
Quote: prozemaWhat did you mean by this?
Maybe A strongly worded letter to the casino. That's how you get them lol
Quote: GlenGMaybe A strongly worded letter to the casino. That's how you get them lol
I hope you are right.
Quote: TomGThere absolutely are times when someone at the cage asks for your ID as a countermeasure against your play. Because you seem to understand what your rights are, it is really weird that you don't take responsibility to protect yourself by not declining to show them your ID.
Tom, i do decline and then ask for my chips back. They then tell me they will not give me back the chips if i dont show them my ID, which is partially the point of this thread if theyre allowed to tell me that or not.
Quote: ZenKinGTom, i do decline and then ask for my chips back. They then tell me they will not give me back the chips if i dont show them my ID, which is partially the point of this thread if theyre allowed to tell me that or not.
A casino may not take your chips without paying you. For them to "tell" you they will not give back the chips and not pay without ID is probably grey enough for them to not get in any trouble over it.
Stop cashing at the cage so frequently, stop cashing anytime close to when you were playing, when you do cash out leave your ID in the car and if they ask for it ask them "Are you saying you're willing to take my money at the table, but not pay?" Have paper and pen and write down everything they say exactly and the name of the person who said it. Ask them for their first and last name as soon as things start to go un-smooth. Like DRich said, that casino will give you a lot of heat for being a pain in the ass, but they won't have your personal information to share with anyone else. You will be able to walk out with either money or chips. If they don't pay you your money, get your passport from the car and get paid. Stay away from any place that asks for your ID at the cage for at least a few months
Quote: TomGA casino may not take your chips without paying you. For them to "tell" you they will not give back the chips and not pay without ID is probably grey enough for them to not get in any trouble over it.
Stop cashing at the cage so frequently, stop cashing anytime close to when you were playing, when you do cash out leave your ID in the car and if they ask for it ask them "Are you saying you're willing to take my money at the table, but not pay?" Have paper and pen and write down everything they say exactly and the name of the person who said it. Ask them for their first and last name as soon as things start to go un-smooth. Like DRich said, that casino will give you a lot of heat for being a pain in the ass, but they won't have your personal information to share with anyone else. You will be able to walk out with either money or chips. If they don't pay you your money, get your passport from the car and get paid. Stay away from any place that asks for your ID at the cage for at least a few months
That is awful advice. You should always have your ID on you. From what others are saying ZK is a young looking person and he has to provide it at the able a lot. If you dont present your ID at the tables, then you dont get to play.
Why do you people think the casino is doing something with your personal information other than sending you comps in the mail or telling the REPO man where to go if you dont pay markers back.
Like what i said earlier, they could be investigating stolen purple chips, and maybe they have pictures/names of suspects that gaming/police provided them and check your name to cross reference.
Quote: GlenGThat is awful advice. You should always have your ID on you. From what others are saying ZK is a young looking person and he has to provide it at the able a lot. If you dont present your ID at the tables, then you dont get to play.
A big part of his problem is going to the tables and the cage during the same trip to the casino.
Quote: TomGA casino may not take your chips without paying you. For them to "tell" you they will not give back the chips and not pay without ID is probably grey enough for them to not get in any trouble over it.
Stop cashing at the cage so frequently, stop cashing anytime close to when you were playing, when you do cash out leave your ID in the car and if they ask for it ask them "Are you saying you're willing to take my money at the table, but not pay?" Have paper and pen and write down everything they say exactly and the name of the person who said it. Ask them for their first and last name as soon as things start to go un-smooth. Like DRich said, that casino will give you a lot of heat for being a pain in the ass, but they won't have your personal information to share with anyone else. You will be able to walk out with either money or chips. If they don't pay you your money, get your passport from the car and get paid. Stay away from any place that asks for your ID at the cage for at least a few months
I hear you. What about those horror stories ive heard regarding players not cashing out and then going back months later to cash out and being denied? Should I not collect purple or higher and just cash out purple and higher the same day? Or collect any amount of denomination and when i go back use them to play rather than going straight to the cashier? Then after im done playing, cash out at a partial amount of the total amount collected, rinse and repeat?
You're a small time gambler. A guppy in the Las Vegas ocean of players. None of your theories hold up. Most of your information on how casinos operate is incorrect.
ZCore13
Quote: Zcore13Hilarious. Everyone at the casino is against you. Surveillance follows your every move and contacts the cage when you leave a table with just over $1,000 in chips. They are entering your info into OSN. This is almost as good as them removing cards from the decks to combat you.
You're a small time gambler. A guppy in the Las Vegas ocean of players. None of your theories hold up. Most of your information on how casinos operate is incorrect.
ZCore13
Yea such small amounts that several casinos already backed me off with only 1-2k in chips in front of me upon returning after that win or on the spot. I must be a hell of a player if theyre that scared of me with only 1-2k in front of me.
I once asked on here about Social Security "card"s. I simply don't have one, mine was lost in a fire and the request for a new one was made but said replacement card never came.
I'm more concerned about not having a Social Security card which I think is required for cashing out "jackpots" and large wins?
Am i missing something? Been in the business for a while and NEVER heard that.
Quote: NokTangA good, well made, fake ID would take care of everything...
I once asked on here about Social Security "card"s. I simply don't have one, mine was lost in a fire and the request for a new one was made but said replacement card never came.
I'm more concerned about not having a Social Security card which I think is required for cashing out "jackpots" and large wins?
The fuck? Why would you want have a fake ID?
No you dont need your SSC when filling out jackpot cash forms. just an ID
Quote: TomGDo not cash out the same day after playing. You may go to the cage before you go to the tables. But whatever chips you leave the table with go with you when you leave the casino. You don't have to wait months to get paid, a few days is fine
Wont certain denomiation chips be risky to not cash out the same day such as yellow(1k) or even purple.
Quote: ZenKinGYea such small amounts that several casinos already backed me off with only 1-2k in chips in front of me. I must be a hell of a player if theyre that scared of me with only 1-2k in front of me.
When you keep saying "Casino backed me off" what exactly do you mean
Quote: GlenGWhats so wrong with cashing your chips out after your done gambling?
Am i missing something? Been in the business for a while and NEVER heard that.
You must not be an AP then. They hunt you down for information and take your photo at the cage if you just cleaned them out and were getting heat
Quote: ZenKinGYou must not be an AP then. They hunt you down for information and take your photo at the cage if you just cleaned them out and were getting heat
Please amuse me with what they do with that information.
Also, you know they take a picture of EVERYONE who walks up to the cage right?
Quote: GlenGThe fuck? Why would you want have a fake ID?
No you dont need your SSC when filling out jackpot cash forms. just an ID
Living in the third world, well, suffice to say, you would get the point had you been falsely accused of a "crime" or been hassled by the police for some "Christmas Party Money".
I once won a trifecta at a dog racing track in Florida. It paid about 600 to 2.usd. They refused to cash the ticket without a Social Security card and ID. Never forgot this.
GlenG doesn’t understand card counters & APs get heat, backed off, and trespassed. Zcore doesn’t understand how sweaty the LV strip really is.
ZK — just don’t accept yellow chips. Don’t cash ANYTHING out same day you play. Purple are easy to cash out, just don’t do it the same day you play. Maybe you look extra young or something, but I’ve had no problem cashing out 3 yellows at CET. Basically you should be letting your chip inventory stack up. Then once it’s too much, start cashing out small amounts. But you want to probably have like $2k in Black & green. You don’t want much in purple. But don’t get up off the table with like $6k in Black.
Quote: RSITT:
GlenG doesn’t understand card counters & APs get heat, backed off, and trespassed. Zcore doesn’t understand how sweaty the LV strip really is.
I think you guys just think the big bad casinos are out for you. lol
When you say "get heat" do you mean stuff like the dealer cuts the cards in a certain spot the make the shoes shorter?
Ive dealt to and with Card Counters and AP's for many years. What ZK described, it just seems that hes overly paranoid.
I still dont understand the logic of holding on to the chips after your done and putting them in a Safe Deposit box lol
Quote: RSITT:
GlenG doesn’t understand card counters & APs get heat, backed off, and trespassed. Zcore doesn’t understand how sweaty the LV strip really is.
ZK — just don’t accept yellow chips. Don’t cash ANYTHING out same day you play. Purple are easy to cash out, just don’t do it the same day you play. Maybe you look extra young or something, but I’ve had no problem cashing out 3 yellows at CET. Basically you should be letting your chip inventory stack up. Then once it’s too much, start cashing out small amounts. But you want to probably have like $2k in Black & green. You don’t want much in purple. But don’t get up off the table with like $6k in Black.
I havent had trouble cashing out purples over even 1k chips at other places, which is why im saying getting id'd at the cage by the cage manager, it is a signal of major heat especially when you consider the fact that everytime ive been id'd at the cage i got backed off on the next visit.
What i think has happened is the pit boss gets on the phone to the cage immediately after i color up and leave. This happened the other day as well and i left for an hour and came back but they still id'd me. This was a strip property as well so no way in hell are they sweating 2 purples at the cage and some green, there was some other motive going on and my guess is heat towards me since i play unrated and basically won every hand in the shoe and jumped in and out of hands.
Im pretty paranoid about carrying large denomination chips and then waiting X amount of days or weeks or months and then not being able to cash out especially after reading some horror stories on several forums. But you said you cashed out 3 yellows not on the same day? How long did you wait to cadh them out and did the cashier ask anything about where you got them or when you got them?
Quote: ZenKinG
What i think has happened is the pit boss gets on the phone to the cage immediately after i color up and leave. This happened the other day as well and i left for an hour and came back but they still id'd me. This was a strip property as well so no way in hell are they sweating 2 purples at the cage and some green, there was some other motive going on and my guess is heat towards me since i play unrated and basically won every hand in the shoe and jumped in amd out of hands.
2 years as a pit boss. We dont ever call the cage about anything other than "Where is my fill/credit?".
The cage usually talk to the shift supervisor who then will call us and say "Did Joe Random(or they would describe your description in which you would be able to cross reference with what you put on the computer for unknown players) color-up $5,000 in Purple from your table?" Thats pretty much it.
For our Australian members: When we say 'fanny pack' we don't mean what you think we mean. Fanny is a socially acceptable term here for any persons posterior; it is NOT a socially unacceptable term for female anatomy. The pack in question is usually a small pack and narrow belt with many people turning it around so its worn in the front. Its often used by travelers to hold passports or other small items securely while maintaining physical mobility for walking.
The use of travel wallets in Vegas is rather high. These are small items that can be securely worn and are resistant to pick pockets. Some are twin-compartmented; one a see through mesh, the other an opaque zippered compartment. These are often worn by gamblers and also worn by dealers. Dealers in Vegas generally wear uniform attire that have no pockets. Drivers licenses, a small amount of cash, a handkerchief, small items for personal hygiene, etc. are often worn in a concealed manner since dealers are never allowed to reach into pockets. At a craps table if a dealer needs a tissue, the box man supplies it by placing it on the felt in front of him, then moving it to in front of the dealer, who then slaps his hands and picks it up, uses it, folds it, places it back on the felt and again slaps his hands. With rigamarole like that to go thru, its just easier to wear a shin wallet and await break time. So male dealers often wear shin wallets. A lot of gamblers do too or they use Velcro wallets or other items either worn visibly or concealed. Some gamblers even wear "deep carry" pouches for chips that are similar to the deep carry holsters used by Air Marshals and DEA types.
It is much more sensible to invest in some sort of pouch or wallet commonly used by tourists than to go thru any sort of activity that brings either real or imagined "heat" to the casino experience. Eons ago I was frisked at the now defunct Barbary Coast, other than that I have had no real problems with casino security but did have a time consuming problem at the Venetian's cashier due to a misunderstanding. I've passed cash and chips to companions on a variety of occasions by 'shaking hands' rather than doing it in a more visible manner. Its probably an unnecessary rigamarole I go thru, but I do not like to let potential pick pockets see transactions that might be of interest to them.
I've found that over the years its easy to avoid trouble by keeping chips on your person rather than making several trips to the cage. I rarely would go from the tables directly to the cage. Wander a bit, have a drink, enjoy a comfortable chair for awhile, look around at the "scenery"... then go to the cage. It is simply a way to avoid any forms or inquiries. Be polite and cheerful at the cage, do your own count at the window and THEN push the stacks through to the cashier; that way your actions are on camera and so is the cashier's actions on camera. No one will be suspicious of someone who acts openly like that.
I thought you said you were a dealer?Quote: GlenG2 years as a pit boss. We dont ever call the cage about anything other than "Where is my fill/credit?".
The cage usually talk to the shift supervisor who then will call us and say "Did Joe Random(or they would describe your description in which you would be able to cross reference with what you put on the computer for unknown players) color-up $5,000 in Purple from your table?" Thats pretty much it.
LOLQuote: FleaStiff
For our Australian members: When we say 'fanny pack' we don't mean what you think we mean.
LOLQuote: FleaStiff
For our Australian members: When we say 'fanny pack' we don't mean what you think we mean.
Romes and GAWE share a liking for this one. (-;
Quote: GlenGI think you guys just think the big bad casinos are out for you. lol
When you say "get heat" do you mean stuff like the dealer cuts the cards in a certain spot the make the shoes shorter?
Ive dealt to and with Card Counters and AP's for many years. What ZK described, it just seems that hes overly paranoid.
I still dont understand the logic of holding on to the chips after your done and putting them in a Safe Deposit box lol
Every casino is different but it seems like your casino is pretty relaxed. This isn’t the case for many casinos, especially the ones on the strip in Vegas. Then again, you also may be oblivious to what’s happening. Most dealers I worked with were completely oblivious and didn’t know what was going on “around them”. They don’t know the rules, laws, why they do what they do, and have a complete misunderstanding about how card counting works and the things casinos do to thwart APs. Just because you don’t see it doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.
If you don’t know what “heat” is or the benefit of hodling onto chips after a session instead of immediately cashing them (which should be immediately obvious by reading this thread), I don’t think you’re the one to comment or give advice on this type of thread. It’d be like a programmer asking for help on a forum because he’s getting certain errors and unexpected outputs, then someone saying “Did you try turning your computer off and on again? That usually solved my computer problems!”
AFAICT, most dealers can’t spot the difference between an AP and a regular player. Plenty of times in the break room a dealer will be telling me he’s dealing to a card counter, I’ll ask how he’s playing (when he’s increasing his bet, what’s the lowest and highest he’s bet, etc.), and the dealer would describe the actions of a regular player or even an awful player, “Well he bet $25 on his first hand and he got a blackjack. Then he bet $50 and got a 14 against my 6, so he hit and got a 3, which caused me (dealer) to bust. Then he dropped his bet down to $25 and lost. And.....he’s definitely a card counter, over the last 2 hours he’s only tipped me $200!!!”
I had another dealer tell me how stupid this one player is.....and long story short, the dealer was describing to me a player who has hole-carding (and possibly next-carding, IIRC) the game.
Hell, I’ve even had a casino manager tell me how this guy I was dealing to was a card counter (he wasn’t, he was just pseudo-martingaling). Later the CSM backed him off the game and said he’s welcome to play the 6-deck shoe because “you can’t count a 6-deck shoe, there’s 387 cards in a 6-deck shoe!!” (Maybe CSM didn’t say 387, but it was an odd number that wasn’t 312.)
I had a PB tell me the casino can refuse to pay out anyone for no reason at all, just because/if the casino wants to. Card counting is cheating. Card counters make hundreds per hour and always win. CC is illegal and the casino can call the cops and have the person arrested, but they don’t because it’s bad publicity and easier to just kick them out.
You might be thinking “oh, RS probably just misunderstood what those people were saying”. No. When I’ve talked to others in the casino about CC or AP-like stuff (obviously I don’t tell them I’m an AP), I’d try to be very direct and have it be crystal clear what they’re saying and what they think, so there’s no chance anything was misunderstood or lost in translation.
I’ve heard plenty of dealers say something like, “I’ve been dealing this game for years, you should really listen to my advice.” What follows is generally absolutely awful advice. Not like “oh that’s an opinion that I disagree with” but stuff that’s just flat out, objectively, wrong. Being a dealer or a casino employee doesn’t make someone understand the game nor does it make them any kind of expert (or knowledgeable) whatsoever. What makes someone an expert or knowledgeable is actually understanding the games and how stuff works.
I could go on for hours about how many dealers and floor are incompetent and overall just lack basic understanding of.....everything, really.
On the flip side, I’m sure SOME dealers and floor are “very fine people”, but they’re few and far between.
Quote: GlenG2 years as a pit boss. We dont ever call the cage about anything other than "Where is my fill/credit?".
3 years as a Floor Supervisor, 3 years as a shift manager, 5 years as a table games director, 7 or 8 National conventions, many, many talks with some of the biggest names in the business and not once have I ever heard the pit calling the cage to get someone id'd or photographed. Thats not the way it works. The two departments don't communicate for that reason.
ZCore13
Quote: Zcore133 years as a Floor Supervisor, 3 years as a shift manager, 5 years as a table games director, 7 or 8 National conventions, many, many talks with some of the biggest names in the business and not once have I ever heard the pit calling the cage to get someone id'd or photographed. Thats not the way it works. The two departments don't communicate for that reason.
ZCore13
Maybe in the places you have worked it's like that but I have worked in places that the pit or surveillance call the cage and ask them to attempt to Id the patron.
I have also experienced it as a player and have overheard the call being made.
I agree with what RS posted above.
Quote: HunterhillMaybe in the places you have worked it's like that but I have worked in places that the pit or surveillance call the cage and ask them to attempt to Id the patron.
I have also experienced it as a player and have overheard the call being made.
I agree with what RS posted above.
The pit does call the cage and ask if they know how much a person cashed out. They also might ask the cage who the person was after someone cashes out for a large amount that would require an I'd to cash out. I've never heard of anywhere where the pit calls the cage and tells them to id someone.
You guys all have theories and stories.
ZCore13
They verified it was mine by hollering from the cage to the craps table...
Quote: RS
You might be thinking “oh, RS probably just misunderstood what those people were saying”. No. When I’ve talked to others in the casino about CC or AP-like stuff (obviously I don’t tell them I’m an AP), I’d try to be very direct and have it be crystal clear what they’re saying and what they think, so there’s no chance anything was misunderstood or lost in translation.
I’ve heard plenty of dealers say something like, “I’ve been dealing this game for years, you should really listen to my advice.” What follows is generally absolutely awful advice. Not like “oh that’s an opinion that I disagree with” but stuff that’s just flat out, objectively, wrong. Being a dealer or a casino employee doesn’t make someone understand the game nor does it make them any kind of expert (or knowledgeable) whatsoever. What makes someone an expert or knowledgeable is actually understanding the games and how stuff works.
I could go on for hours about how many dealers and floor are incompetent and overall just lack basic understanding of.....everything, really.
On the flip side, I’m sure SOME dealers and floor are “very fine people”, but they’re few and far between.
This whole entire post was excellent, first of all.
This is right in line with what I have been trying to say. It seems that as many people as not who work in casinos, in any position, are willing to talk completely out of their asses about subjects in which they have no knowledge or experience.
If you don't believe me, I suggest that you call a Players Club for yourself and ask about any promotion that has any kind of complexity to it whatsoever. Call three people, you'll get three answers, sometimes. You can ask a question that has an answer plainly stated (in the rare event it is plainly stated) in the promotion terms on the website, and the person doesn't know the answer. When I have called about promotions for people and other things here openly on the Forum, I usually test the person answering the phone with a few basic questions I already know the answer to, if they get any of those wrong, I'll wait until later and call somebody else.
Oftentimes when calling about these sorts of things for any reason, I go with, "Best two out of three answers," because two people give me two different answers, so I decide to let a third person break the tie.
I don't have any experience with dealing table games, supervising them and very limited experience playing them, so I'm going to talk out of my ass for a second really quick:
---I imagine that when someone is trained as a dealer, the primary function that they are taught is the rules of the game and how to deal the cards properly. I think that they are expected to know how to payout on the game properly, and maybe, to look for obvious signs of shot-taking and maybe past posting. I imagine that they are told when and under what situations, which people have said have to do with bet levels more than anything, when to get the attention of the supervisor.
---Anybody smart enough to be an AP is probably smart enough to get a Master's Degree, if the person had the desire and applied himself/herself. I say Master's Degree, at a minimum. In contrast, your average casino personnel couldn't spell, "AP," if I spotted them the first letter. They can't be calling in on things or doing this, that or the other when, on average, they don't even know about it other than vague terms and don't know how to identify it even if they did know about it.
---These are mostly people that, I'm not going to say can't get a job anywhere else, (because you have to at least have a basic capacity for rudimentary mental math) but you have to understand that the job is a relatively low service-level position. Almost everything they do is highly procedural, like working in a grocery store, hotel or gas station.
---People, in general, have a very limited attention span...especially if they are bored. Anyone who has ever had ANY job in a big company knows that trainings/orientations are all a major snooze-fest. You really need to emphasize the MOST important stuff (which would not be card counters) before everyone in the training completely zones out. At the distribution center training, it was emphasized that falling asleep during training would be immediate termination so, "Please pretend to be watching these videos." That's how much interest people have in training/orientation.
---In terms of, "Game Protection," identifying counters is probably quite literally the LEAST important thing that a casino staff would be well-served in knowing how to do.
Conclusion
I have no idea what ZenKing looks like, but I believe he alluded to some ID checks might have to do with just age verification. I think that's probably quite true. Everyone in the casino knows that you are supposed to be 21 in order to play, and if you are not (and have been playing) they need to deal with that. Using makeup to emphasize wrinkles and lines without REALLY changing your fundamental appearance can make you look older. I'm 34 and my fiance' just wanted to play around one day for fun...I can legitimately look anywhere in the range of 25-45 within about five minutes.
Quote: ZenKinG
Also, sorry, but they cant ban you for being a 'pain in the ass'.
You are very naive.
Quote: ZenKinG
Also what do you think all the writing they are doing with my ID and data entry into the computer is anyway? Just storing my information to later check OSN? What exactly are they doing with my ID and the computer?
They are filling out an MTL (Multiple Transaction Log), most casinos fill one out if they believe you have cashed out $3,000 or more.
Quote: Mission146This whole entire post was excellent, first of all.
This is right in line with what I have been trying to say. It seems that as many people as not who work in casinos, in any position, are willing to talk completely out of their asses about subjects in which they have no knowledge or experience.
If you don't believe me, I suggest that you call a Players Club for yourself and ask about any promotion that has any kind of complexity to it whatsoever. Call three people, you'll get three answers, sometimes. You can ask a question that has an answer plainly stated (in the rare event it is plainly stated) in the promotion terms on the website, and the person doesn't know the answer. When I have called about promotions for people and other things here openly on the Forum, I usually test the person answering the phone with a few basic questions I already know the answer to, if they get any of those wrong, I'll wait until later and call somebody else.
Oftentimes when calling about these sorts of things for any reason, I go with, "Best two out of three answers," because two people give me two different answers, so I decide to let a third person break the tie.
Asking 3 people and getting only 3 different answers is pretty good. I usually ask 3 and get 5 different answers. It's like they don't even know what you're asking.
Quote:I don't have any experience with dealing table games, supervising them and very limited experience playing them, so I'm going to talk out of my ass for a second really quick:
---I imagine that when someone is trained as a dealer, the primary function that they are taught is the rules of the game and how to deal the cards properly. I think that they are expected to know how to payout on the game properly, and maybe, to look for obvious signs of shot-taking and maybe past posting. I imagine that they are told when and under what situations, which people have said have to do with bet levels more than anything, when to get the attention of the supervisor.
IME, training wasn't part of the job. I learned how to deal at a "dealers school". You'll learn small things on the job, but that's basically more like helpful tips, "Instead of cutting out the money that way, you should try it like this instead. I believe strip property casinos basically just throw random dealers at carnival games, they're told how the game works for about 5 minutes, maybe, then tell them to just look at the paytable to pay people.
As far as calling out "cheques play" or that kind of thing, IME, the casino will have one policy, but the floor/PB will have a different policy. Some say they only care if the buy in or bet is over $200 and didn't care if someone went from $5 to $150 (at least I didn't care, maybe he did?). Others are more strict and say they want to be made aware and verify EVERY buy in and color up.
Quote:---Anybody smart enough to be an AP is probably smart enough to get a Master's Degree, if the person had the desire and applied himself/herself. I say Master's Degree, at a minimum. In contrast, your average casino personnel couldn't spell, "AP," if I spotted them the first letter. They can't be calling in on things or doing this, that or the other when, on average, they don't even know about it other than vague terms and don't know how to identify it even if they did know about it.
Eh, I say kinda yes and kinda no. Going through college and getting a good degree can be a bit different than being an AP. Being an AP is more street-smarts kinda thing whereas college is more book smarts. That doesn't mean there is no overlap, but I know some APs who are very good at APing but probably would struggle getting a HS diploma, let alone a bachlor's or master's degree.
Quote:---These are mostly people that, I'm not going to say can't get a job anywhere else, (because you have to at least have a basic capacity for rudimentary mental math) but you have to understand that the job is a relatively low service-level position. Almost everything they do is highly procedural, like working in a grocery store, hotel or gas station.
Yup. Doesn't take really any special training, other than probably 6-8 weeks average at a dealer school (I did it in like 3 weeks, not to toot my own horn), and nothing "out of the ordinary" or something that needs to be analyzed or is a case-by-case basis. It's all cookie cutter stuff.
That isn't to say watching a good dealer on a busy roulette or craps table work seamlessly isn't kind of inspiring or cool to watch....because it is.
Quote: Zcore13The pit does call the cage and ask if they know how much a person cashed out. They also might ask the cage who the person was after someone cashes out for a large amount that would require an I'd to cash out. I've never heard of anywhere where the pit calls the cage and tells them to id someone.
You guys all have theories and stories.
ZCore13
That's the thing ,they aren't just theories or stories,unless you think we're lying.
So with all your experience how many geographic areas have you worked in.
You do realize not all casinos do things the same way.
Quote: RSAsking 3 people and getting only 3 different answers is pretty good. I usually ask 3 and get 5 different answers. It's like they don't even know what you're asking.
Exactly, and I think it's because the only promotions you or I would be asking about are often one-time deals and we are both probably asking somewhat specific stuff. Even when you get that person's immediate supervisor on the phone, the supervisor either has to look it up or ask another one. If you talk to two supervisors, you may well get two different answers.
Just like dealing games, it's because all of these things are about procedure. One off promotions that often have not even started yet are not within normal procedure. There was probably a three-minute meeting about it with cross-talking going on and most people, at-best, paying half attention. They talk out of their asses as a result.
If nothing else, the new promotions are a pain for them to have to deal with because it's something new they have to know that they didn't have to know before.
The regular new Member promotion is easy, "$10 sign-up, $5 for an E-Mail, another $5 if you download the app," because they've been doing that for well over a year. It's ingrained and automatic. It's so automatic, in fact, that if you ask about, "The promotion," that's what they'll start telling you about before you specify that you are asking about the xxxxxx Promotion, or whatever it is.
Quote:IME, training wasn't part of the job. I learned how to deal at a "dealers school". You'll learn small things on the job, but that's basically more like helpful tips, "Instead of cutting out the money that way, you should try it like this instead. I believe strip property casinos basically just throw random dealers at carnival games, they're told how the game works for about 5 minutes, maybe, then tell them to just look at the paytable to pay people.
I forgot about the dealer schools, that's on me. I wasn't thinking. Even around here the Community College might still do it.
I have heard directly from the few dealers I have spoken to (I don't play much, but I'm a friendly guy in general and I have no problem with dealers...I'm also a pretty good tipper at my play level) that the above quote is 100% true. They'll give you a run-down and just toss you on the game. I've seen dealers on UTH that struggle like hell to figure out the best five-card poker hand, both for themselves and for the player...and I haven't watched UTH much or played much. I ended up chiming in because he didn't see a player's flush (and the player didn't catch it either) because the dealer was too worried about his own two pair and one of the player's two suited cards made a pair.
I think both player and dealer read it as two pair beats one pair.
It's really silly.
And, I could see where someone with a truly conspiratorial mind would get the impression that the dealer is, "Playing stupid," trying to get mispays intentionally for the casino. Pretending for a second that wouldn't be 100% illegal, pretending for a second that a terminated or ticked off employee wouldn't PROVE THAT WAS HAPPENING at the first possible opportunity, the fact is the dealer probably either made an honest mistake or was thrown at a game he didn't know for crap.
Quote:As far as calling out "cheques play" or that kind of thing, IME, the casino will have one policy, but the floor/PB will have a different policy. Some say they only care if the buy in or bet is over $200 and didn't care if someone went from $5 to $150 (at least I didn't care, maybe he did?). Others are more strict and say they want to be made aware and verify EVERY buy in and color up.
Absolutely! There's no great conspiracy or anything to be had by that, either.
The thing people don't realize is that this is not just casinos, it is LITERALLY EVERY JOB AT EVERY COMPANY! The company has a policy as to how things should go, management will have certain policies that they care more about or less about. Management might be inclined to follow policy more strenuously if they have recently been reprimanded for something.
You have bureaucratic, "Enforce every rule," types, you have lackadaisical types and you have people that emphasize certain things over other things types.
Again, that's literally any company. Managers often tend to hire or promote supervisors (other than complete lackadaisicalness) with differing personal priority sets because, if you didn't, you'd never figure out what works or doesn't efficiently because everyone would be doing the same thing.
You also need to have people with different personalities, as a practical matter, so the lower employees can generally have at least one supervisor they like. If all of the supervisors are the same person essentially, and you don't like any of them, that makes being lackadaisical or quitting your job more likely.
Quote:Eh, I say kinda yes and kinda no. Going through college and getting a good degree can be a bit different than being an AP. Being an AP is more street-smarts kinda thing whereas college is more book smarts. That doesn't mean there is no overlap, but I know some APs who are very good at APing but probably would struggle getting a HS diploma, let alone a bachlor's or master's degree.
Good point.
Quote:Yup. Doesn't take really any special training, other than probably 6-8 weeks average at a dealer school (I did it in like 3 weeks, not to toot my own horn), and nothing "out of the ordinary" or something that needs to be analyzed or is a case-by-case basis. It's all cookie cutter stuff.
That isn't to say watching a good dealer on a busy roulette or craps table work seamlessly isn't kind of inspiring or cool to watch....because it is.
I agree 100% with everything you said, especially watching great dealers. That's part of the fun of occasionally taking a glance even if I'm not going to play. I think it's fun to watch both great and efficient (procedural, again) dealers as well as very, very bad ones.
Quote: HunterhillThat's the thing ,they aren't just theories or stories,unless you think we're lying.
So with all your experience how many geographic areas have you worked in.
You do realize not all casinos do things the same way.
I don't think ZCore13 is trying to say anything like that. I think his writing style in these posts and these posts only may come off as more dogmatic than he is intending. If not that, then I think that he is expecting everyone to assume the words, "At all of the casinos that I work at or know of," before all of these statements.
Quote: Mission146I don't think ZCore13 is trying to say anything like that. I think his writing style in these posts and these posts only may come off as more dogmatic than he is intending. If not that, then I think that he is expecting everyone to assume the words, "At all of the casinos that I work at or know of," before all of these statements.
Of course I can't know what every casino in the country does. I can know things from the casinos I've worked at, the many table games directors I've had the occasion to meet or talk to and the very good knowledge of Title 31 money tracking.
Some casinos start tracking as low as $1,000. Most start tracking at $3,000. That is foe both buy ins and cash outs. Although the pit doesn't care what you've cashed out (except for rating pusposes) and the cage doesn't care what you've bought in.
So if you've met the casino threshold for mandated Title 31 tracking they will either request, but not require I'd, or write down your physical description and keep a running total. Table Games will al.ost never ask for idea. They just do description. Cage will ask, but dont care if you say no unless you have exceeded $10,000 for the day. Then you do not get to continue the transaction and will probably end up on a Suspicious Activity Report that will be sent to Uncle Sam.
I may seem critical because it's just silly all the things that one person says that he insists he knows, but he does not. You know, the same guy who insisted for months casinos took cards out of the shoe and hid their practices from him.
ZCore13
Yes, in some casinos they wouldn't have enough dealers to staff half (a third?) of the tables.Quote: FCBLComishIf we banned everyone who was being a pain in the ass, the casino floor would be pretty empty...
ps. I never played table games with an advantage except maybe a few times, so my opinion is a mute point
Quote: djatcall of you are dum dums I never have problems cashing out chips at the cage. maybe you guys should start smiling and go to the cage hydrated
ps. I never played table games with an advantage except maybe a few times, so my opinion is a mute point
Don’t you mean moo point? (Sorry bad Friends joke)
Quote: PokerGrinderDon’t you mean moo point? (Sorry bad Friends joke)
You have friends?
Quote: RSYou have friends?
bazinga
Quote: RSYou have friends?
I don't think RS's comment was a dig, more of a question like "wait, how do you go about getting them?!?!" =DQuote: GWAEbazinga
<3 PG
