heatmap
heatmap
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February 12th, 2018 at 5:00:25 PM permalink
Hello all! This is my very first post on this forum. I normally lurk on a roulette forum, and literally just posted this exact same question to there, but felt it would be better off on this forum.

Let me give you a quick history. I was infatuated with roulette and beating it, but to my dismay, and lots of patent research, ive learned of a process which allows them to "randomize" more than just the rotor or ball speed so to say.

Anyways. I have been playing blackjack with much more success than roulette.

Ive been playng it alot at my casino I go almost every day with usually a minimum bet anywhere from 5 (stadium blackjack) to 25 dollar minumums.

But i love learning about new concepts which allow the casino to succeed and retain a CONSTANT edge against the players.

To the crazy part - and my question for the WIZARD :

I have this slight feeling that the shufflers are using a techinque called the Iterated Prisoners Dilemma to set up hands.

I think that they are randomizing the games which are associated with the prisoners dilemma such as tit for tat and so on.

Is this possible in blackjack?

Take this scenario which happens a little bit less than frequently (at least i see them):

Everyone, except the dealer and one person has what seems to be a winning hand, such as 20s. The dealer gets a seemingly low card such as 2 though 5, and the one person who also didnt get a 20 gets something such as 11 or lower so they are required to hit by basic strategy and are gaurenteed not to bust. So that person is the only person who will take a card before the dealer no matter what. This is the DEFECT which leads to an impossible dealer win.
Keyser
Keyser
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February 12th, 2018 at 7:02:38 PM permalink
Quote:

ive learned of a process which allows them to "randomize" more than just the rotor or ball speed so to say.



What is it that you believe they're doing to beat you?

Why?
heatmap
heatmap
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February 12th, 2018 at 7:08:27 PM permalink
In short, i believe they randomize - not in all wheels but wheels in my area ( because its the law) - the place where a ball lands by being able to change the polarity of the ball, effiectively, being able to either repel or attract the ball into a pocket.
Keyser
Keyser
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February 12th, 2018 at 7:13:44 PM permalink
Is there a particular event that triggered your line of thinking?

It's easily proven mathematically that there's no system that can overcome the random game of roulette, so there would be no reason for them to try and cheat the player like that.
(Of course beating the wheel is something entirely different.)
heatmap
heatmap
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February 12th, 2018 at 7:53:42 PM permalink
Quote: Keyser

Is there a particular event that triggered your line of thinking?

It's easily proven mathematically that there's no system that can overcome the random game of roulette, so there would be no reason for them to try and cheat the player like that.
(Of course beating the wheel is something entirely different.)



I was playing on a hybrid live dealer, stadium seating roulette, and the ball does what i call a violent settle from fret to fret into the number 17 pocket, stopped moving for a split second then popped all the way up to the track where the dealer starts spinning it at, and then went all the way to the other side of the wheel.

And Why? It has NOTHING To do with the casino, but the organization that allows the caisno to reside within its state. The state has a stake in the business and must get its payment no matter what. Its the gaming control board that picks the machines within its casinos doors.
OnceDear
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OnceDear
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February 12th, 2018 at 8:22:14 PM permalink
Quote: heatmap

Hello all! This is my very first post on this forum.

Hello, and welcome into the daylight :)

Quote:

Let me give you a quick history. I was infatuated with roulette and beating it, but to my dismay, and lots of patent research, ive learned of a process which allows them to "randomize" more than just the rotor or ball speed so to say.
. . .
But i love learning about new concepts which allow the casino to succeed and retain a CONSTANT edge against the players.

They don't need to: The house edge at roulette IS constant: It's a constant probability that is quite easily calculated. The 'takings' might go up or down a bit as random chance is in play, and the casino lives with that by taking a massive number of games. No amount of 'changing polarity' of a ball could change that. Remember that the balls are symmetrical spheres and even if they were steel and magnetised, the north pole would still be at one end of a sphere and the south pole at the other: As the ball rotates lots of times, nothing could keep track of that. The casino could use electromagnets in the slots of the wheel, but would be drummed out of business when caught. It's just not going to happen. If you want to make money from your concept, sell your story to a judge or the press. You'd get no-where and rightly so as there is no real world science to your explanation.
Quote:

To the crazy part - and my question for the WIZARD :

I have this slight feeling that the shufflers are using a techinque called the Iterated Prisoners Dilemma to set up hands.

Well, Far be it from me to leap into your conversation, but for the dealer to set up cards in mid game would need incredible skill and deep knowledge of the order of cards in the shoe and ability to misdeal. They simply don't need to even if they could. These aren't impossible hands: They are hands that you perceive as unlikely. But as you watch lots of hands, you will see lots of individually unlikely or remarkable outcomes. That's perfectly normal random behaviour.
Quote:

...This is the DEFECT which leads to an impossible dealer win.

NO defect: Just a bad round for the table: They happen.. . often.

Anyhow, I'm glad you've walked away from roulette: It's house edge is MASSIVE and unassailable. There is no skill in the game and little chance of overcoming it with luck. Blackjack, if played with just BS, has about as nice and low an edge as you could dream of.
If you are enjoying the game, you're already winning.
heatmap
heatmap
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February 12th, 2018 at 8:35:13 PM permalink
Im not looking for opinions to be honest. I have a pretty solid trail of proof to prove my point. The problem you have here is that I have been proving my point for the past 2 years over at my other forum and I dont feel like repeating myself. I don't mind some critisism but prove me wrong otherwise. Im not saying I found a system that works, Im telling you i have patent proof that tells you exactly how to attract and repel a ball by changing its polarity.

google com /patents/US9114940
OnceDear
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OnceDear
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February 12th, 2018 at 8:56:51 PM permalink
Quote: heatmap

Im not looking for opinions to be honest. I have a pretty solid trail of proof to prove my point. The problem you have here is that I have been proving my point for the past 2 years over at my other forum and I dont feel like repeating myself. I don't mind some critisism but prove me wrong otherwise. Im not saying I found a system that works, Im telling you i have patent proof that tells you exactly how to attract and repel a ball by changing its polarity.

google com /patents/US9114940

If you wrote that patent, then good luck monetising it. If you see how that proves anything about your crooked roulette wheel, encounter, then you understand physics far better than I do ( I only graduated B.Sc in physics with electronics).
I'm not criticising anything and I have no wish to prove anything. If you want to, do. If you don't want to, don't. I'm sure you didn't post to get argued with, so let's not. You possibly anticipated some replies. All good as I see it.
Anyhow, wasn't your question about Blackjack?
If you are enjoying the game, you're already winning.
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heatmap
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February 12th, 2018 at 9:07:28 PM permalink
Maybe you can shed some light on this then for me and tell me exactly how im wrong. The citations within the patent have 2 mentions of roulette wheels. I dont think its fair to call things rigged or crooked anymore. The casinos at least around me have made it clear that they dont choose the devices within its walls and that the gaming control board is the ones who do it. Why wouldnt the casinos cheat the player? because they dont even have a chance to as they dont order and install the machines. What the casino does is provide a fair experience to everyone without letting single people gain an advantage. Working in teams is different.
heatmap
heatmap
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February 12th, 2018 at 9:12:59 PM permalink
And im going to be honest because im a fair guy ;)

This is what I DONT know :

I dont know that there is any kind of apparatus that would go into a pocket of a roulette wheel because i havent found a reference anywhere to in on the internet, and its my own prediciton. although i wont admit that it isnt possible.

second the only proof i have is that patent, of which took me forever to find.

I dont have the videos of the ball bouncing violently out of a pocket after its settled. but i remember it like it was yesterday.

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