ZenKinG
ZenKinG
Joined: May 3, 2016
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March 27th, 2017 at 10:12:11 PM permalink
Would a top bet of 2x300 attract a lot of attention if you keep all your sessions to one hour max? I will most likely mix up playing styles but what if I use the 1 hour to purely back count and then move on to another store?

Now I have read a huge amount of information on how KJ does it, i read several books such as Wong's book 'Blackjack Secrets' which has some good longevity infotmation, as well as Vinny DeCarlo's book on all the major casinos and how they bring heat in different ways. My question is not about any of that, I'm already aware of the heat aspect. I just want to know, if possible, a general idea if a 2x300 top bet will attract enough heat to get me flyered/backed off within a year if I keep sessions short to 1 hour or possibly even 45 minutes at a time. By the way, when I say 'sessions' I'm not talking about a session in a particular pit at one store I'm talking about one actual session and I'm on to another store.

Right now I have 12 casinos in my future rotation that I compiled from CBJN that have the best games in town. The plan is to play 6 days a week and mix up morning, afternoon, and graveyard shifts to not have one shift at a particular store see me more than one hour once a week. Of course, 6 days a week is a bit aggressive, but that's the plan for now and I also have some other tricks up my sleeve that should buy me a lot more time, and no I won't be using any cover plays. I'm not a fan of cover plays and I believe when you get made as an AP, its all about your minimum to max bet exposure as well as your back counting exposure.

I'm doing really well right now locally and it looks like I won't have any excuse anymore not to move out there. I'm going there very soon and I would post the date, but I rather not have the rare possibility of a casino critter relaying info to major strip stores to keep an eye out for me. Yes 2x300 is still small fish but it is an amount that does start attracting attention at most places, especially if you start winning a lot and which is why I started this thread in the first place.

Thanks in advance.
Any private business open to the PUBLIC (ie. droned out casinos) cannot have a criminal trespass enforced against an individual without GOOD CAUSE (Disruptive or Disorderly conduct). You will never go to prison for being thrown out of a casino for legal advantage play and then returning because it's simply unconstitutional 'as applied' to the individual. 'As applied' constitutional issues must FIRST be raised in DISTRICT COURT (trial court) to have it thrown out. You CANNOT raise it on APPEAL This is the best kept secret in the world of casinos not just in Vegas but everywhere in the country. Thank me later.
RogerKint
RogerKint
Joined: Dec 5, 2011
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March 27th, 2017 at 10:15:13 PM permalink
About $3.50
100% risk of ruin
rainman
rainman
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March 27th, 2017 at 10:27:08 PM permalink
Insufficient information has been given for anyone to properly answer.
The Wover's are gonna ask for min bet & betting ramp etc..
ZenKinG
ZenKinG
Joined: May 3, 2016
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March 27th, 2017 at 10:38:09 PM permalink
Well, I said I would most likely be back counting and when you back count you usually don't spread much so I thought just giving out my top bet would be sufficient, but I guess I should've gave a bit more details on my wong out points. I will be wonging out aggressively at 0 when purely back counting(in at +1 out at 0; YES i have an edge at +1) and when playing off the top I'll be wonging out aggressively at -1. Max bet for both play styles will be max bet at +5.

My pure Wong spread will be something like 2x50-2x300 and my off the top spread will vary from 2 hands off the top to 1 hand off the top(maybe even use grifters gambit) as i know spreading to two hands in + counts is not well tolerated in vegas. The off the top spread will be something around 1x25 - 2x300 or 2x25 - 1x450 for example and wonging out aggressively at -1. The 2x25 off the top will vary with 1 or 2 hands throughout, as my biggest thing is to just start the shoe with 2 hands to confuse the pit a bit maybe even start with 2x50 or 3x25 and quickly retrace to 2x25 or even 1x25
Any private business open to the PUBLIC (ie. droned out casinos) cannot have a criminal trespass enforced against an individual without GOOD CAUSE (Disruptive or Disorderly conduct). You will never go to prison for being thrown out of a casino for legal advantage play and then returning because it's simply unconstitutional 'as applied' to the individual. 'As applied' constitutional issues must FIRST be raised in DISTRICT COURT (trial court) to have it thrown out. You CANNOT raise it on APPEAL This is the best kept secret in the world of casinos not just in Vegas but everywhere in the country. Thank me later.
mcallister3200
mcallister3200
Joined: Dec 29, 2013
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March 28th, 2017 at 6:08:50 AM permalink
You aren't back counting at most of these casinos, you just aren't going to be able to. There's like 1 3:2 table per pit in most of them, or only the usually dead other than weekend swing higher limit pits are only 3:2.
Romes
Romes
Joined: Jul 22, 2014
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March 28th, 2017 at 7:52:06 AM permalink
Quote: rainman

Insufficient information has been given for anyone to properly answer.

Right.

Quote: rainman

The Wover's are gonna ask for min bet & betting ramp etc..

Wrong.

So basically each store is going to be independent from every other store. You might be able to have a top bet of $1k at Casino A, but only a top bet of $300 at Casino B. You'll have to learn the Tolerance Levels of each casino in your rotation for each of their shift/bosses/etc. This is going to take a little bit of time and learning (without a seasoned vegas vet to give you the ins and outs of each casino).

So what you should be doing now is finding a top bet that will make you decent EV, but you're "pretty sure" is under the radar. Then, when you're in the field you can test these different shops by pressing up a little bit every now and then. See which ones knee jerk react, see which ones simply take notice, and see which ones don't even blink and eye. These are then the casinos that you can't go above X, probably need to stick to just above X, and can go way above X (respectively).

KJ posted before that at some stores he was only able to go to mid blacks (250-300) while at others he could go much higher. I believe he also said that there was something like the "purple rule" that pretty much he avoided betting purple chips (500 or more) at most all stores. I'd take this as a good guideline to starting out.

I think your 2x300 is a decent starting point... though Vegas sometimes casinos definitely do care if you spread horizontally. Start with 2x250 or 2x300 and see what kind of heat you get, then tailor your spread per casino/shift/pit pending what heat/reactions you get... and regardless of 1 hour or not, you should leave after exposing your max bet. Then they'll never see you "reset."

Also, I wouldn't worry about CBJN and "the best games" exactly. Sure, try to play better games, but the "best" games are going to be games with deep PEN and little or no Heat... Who cares if it's S17 or H17. I've said it 1,000,000 times... Vegas is QUANTITY, not QUALITY. Find the tolerant games and you'll find your EV.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
TomG
TomG
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March 28th, 2017 at 5:18:55 PM permalink
A good team can spread $500 to $10,000 for New Year's, Super Bowl, and Mayweather fights. They're game will be discovered, but not until after they've made their bets and flown away.

-----

A $600 max bet should be fine most places, most of the time. But what happens when you do get backed off? If you keep recycling through the same 12 places every two weeks it will happen eventually. Expand the places you go to and your style of play as wide as you can and you can survive earning $100 to $200 per day indefinitely.
RS
RS
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March 28th, 2017 at 5:40:21 PM permalink
What TomG said.

You can get away with 2x300 on the strip, but don't expect to be able to do that day in and day out.
mcallister3200
mcallister3200
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March 28th, 2017 at 7:22:22 PM permalink
ZK, everything you plan/ask smells of that you're making all these plans without ever having been to vegas, or at least very little. Why not try to answer some of these questions yourself? You have more than enough BR to book an inexpensive flight, get a reasonably inexpensive hotel for a week or so, and use the time to gauge if you think you can pull off your plan after scouting these places with your own eyes on different shifts etc.
ZenKinG
ZenKinG
Joined: May 3, 2016
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March 28th, 2017 at 9:20:47 PM permalink
Quote: mcallister3200

ZK, everything you plan/ask smells of that you're making all these plans without ever having been to vegas, or at least very little. Why not try to answer some of these questions yourself? You have more than enough BR to book an inexpensive flight, get a reasonably inexpensive hotel for a week or so, and use the time to gauge if you think you can pull off your plan after scouting these places with your own eyes on different shifts etc.



I've been to vegas only twice. My most recent visit was last March in 2016. CBJN seems to be somewhat accurate from what i saw there with the only exception being that they must be listing some hi limit games because there definitely weren't that many tables with 3:2. If they are indeed hi limit games, i find it strange that CBJN says those games let you jump in mid shoe as i dont see a 'nmse' note on it. Here on the east coast where i play, all hi-limit games are 'nmse'. I probably wont do much backcounting anyway in a hi limit room as that brings way too much attention.
Any private business open to the PUBLIC (ie. droned out casinos) cannot have a criminal trespass enforced against an individual without GOOD CAUSE (Disruptive or Disorderly conduct). You will never go to prison for being thrown out of a casino for legal advantage play and then returning because it's simply unconstitutional 'as applied' to the individual. 'As applied' constitutional issues must FIRST be raised in DISTRICT COURT (trial court) to have it thrown out. You CANNOT raise it on APPEAL This is the best kept secret in the world of casinos not just in Vegas but everywhere in the country. Thank me later.

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