Player responsibility for dealer error

I was down at Mohegan Sun for the triple down blackjack promotion, and a dealer came to relieve my current dealer. She was slow, and made mistakes paying out. I had pushed on an 18 and then she paid me. I told her that she mistakenly paid me and she said sorry and took the money back that she paid. Then shortly later she pushed me on a hand which I was thinking might have been a loss, but I did not say anything because I was not very sure, and I don't want to give away $50 if I am not sure. So a few minutes later a large man in a blue suit (Mohegan security) was standing about 5 feet away from the table staring at us for a good 10 minutes then left without saying anything. I do keep a good eye on things going on, and always report bad payouts when I see them, but should I just leave a table with a bad dealer to prevent possibly getting heat for bad payouts?

You are not responsible for bad dealers, but from your awareness of your surroundings you must be a card counter and therefore sensitive about heat. So while the casino's primary fears are collusion, they would probably still take note of you and your betting patterns.

Was the security type there for any reason related to her mis-pays? I don't know. That fifty may have been a mispay but as long as the Floor didn't show up to unwind it, its yours.

On-Edit: It may just be that they sent the security guard there to see how you and the dealer would react and in the meantime they replayed the entire tape expecting to find additional evidence of collusion but formed a more reasonable impression of your actions after having initially spotted only the fifty dollar mispay.

I am actually not a counter, but I do read about counting etc so I am familiar with the terms like heat etc. In addition even if I knew how to count good I would not do so on such a good promotion that gives the player a 1.5% advantage. I was essentially flat betting. There was another guy at my table that sat down but it did not appear that he was counting from what I know. Thanks for your input

take the money. if they ask for it back, then give it back.

During Craps today, I had one Come bet up (with no odds, it was the previous made point) on a Come Out Roll. The shooter threw a 7, but the dealer forgot to take the Come bet off. The player shot again, and established a (different) point. Only when he said "Odds on your 8?" did I realize he didn't kill that Come Bet. I think he realized at that point also, but said nothing. Of course, I took full odds and the next roll was big red. At that point, there was no going back, but I could have said, "Hey that Come Bet should have been killed on the 7...I want my odds back!" But 1. I doubt that argument would hold any water. 2. I was given a break, it just didn't work out. The same dealer ALMOST did the same thing on a Come Bet of a 10, (again, only 1 Come Bet active) and only because the stick caught it before the next roll did I lose that one. That time, after the point was established, the next roll was a 10. Would have been a much better mistake, had he made it!

Obviously you deserved to lose that but I'm curious what would happen if you were a really good liar and realized a little bit afterward. God knows that if you had won it there is a reasonable possibility that you would have had a couple of guys tap you on the shoulder a half an hour later... so I'm curious what would have happened if you appealed to them after the loss. There's a pretty good chance they'd tell you to go f yourself, but if you had went to gaming commission you would have a reasonable chance at winning.

Quote: ahiromu

Obviously you deserved to lose that but I'm curious what would happen if you were a really good liar and realized a little bit afterward. God knows that if you had won it there is a reasonable possibility that you would have had a couple of guys tap you on the shoulder a half an hour later... so I'm curious what would have happened if you appealed to them after the loss. There's a pretty good chance they'd tell you to go f yourself, but if you had went to gaming commission you would have a reasonable chance at winning.

I think there was about a 0.01% chance that someone would have tapped me on the shoulder because of the small ($10) Come bet that didn't get wiped even if it paid. When there's one small mistake in a couple hours of play, they usually don't get crazy, but if they do, they'd be tapping the dealer on the shoulder, not me. They aren't going to make a player feel uncomfortable with their establishment and want to stop playing over that kind of error.

I have to agree with cclub on the premise that any action taken would be against the dealer, and not the player. It is one thing if another dealer or the box catches a missed pay as it occurs, it is quite another thing altogether when the eye in the sky comes down much later to rectify a mistake.
I would make a big stink about it, if they came to me an hour later. If they want to correct a mistake that was made in the player's favor, then I want them to review ALL of my play, and also correct any mistakes made that were in the house's favor. I would also make it clear that my future action would take place in other casinos. Now if I clearly did something wrong that caused the missed pay, that is another story. But when I have done nothing wrong, and the dealer made the mistake, that has to be a risk the house has assumed, with the hiring of that person as their employee.

lol at trying to get your money back when you lose since you werent supposed to be allowed to make that odds wager in the first place. action was accepted by both parties. end of story. theyre never going to ask you for money back for money you won on your odds wager even if you were not allowed to currently make it. its a completely separate wager that they allowed you to make. action was accepted by both parties. end of story. they can however ask you for your come wager plus winnings on that come wager back since that bet was supposed to already be resolved as a losing wager.

At a new PA table games casino last week, a friend was playing $10 blackjack, and someone sitting next to him at the table got a tap on the shoulder.

Security told them the dealer mis paid them in error, and they need $30 back. He said he had been playing for 3+ hours and many dealer changes, and he said he didn't remember any mistake. The security guard knew nothing, other than he was told to go pick up $30 from this player. What time? don't know. What dealer? don't know. What hand? don't know.

The way I understand this, a NV casino will refuse to show you the tape, so they cannot legally ask you for the $ back. However, they will cash in your chips for you then show you the door. Most likely with a trespass notice.

My strategy in this case, if it wasn't an error I remember happening a few hands ago, would be to ask for a case #, and ask that a gaming commission representative come down to put the money in an escrow file until the situation is resolved, as determined by them. I'd be polite but firm.

Quote: fredw

My strategy in this case, if it wasn't an error I remember happening a few hands ago, would be to ask for a case #, and ask that a gaming commission representative come down to put the money in an escrow file until the situation is resolved, as determined by them. I'd be polite but firm.

doesn't seem like enough work, you want to make sure all of the bases are covered. it is for $30 you know.


(i keed, i keed)

For $30, I'd cash out, walk out the casino and not be coming back again. Not if they can't tell me the sort of detail I need to know to know they aren't having a laugh.