BLACK JACK CARD COUNTING QUESTION

HEY GUYS I HAVE A QUESTION ON BLACKJACK.

At my local casino you are allowed to sit out hands (and the slow pace makes it incredibly easy to card count) is there an optimum strategy when used in conjunction with card counting (zen count) and what is the player advantage if used perfectly. You really can sit out for 6 hands, play 1, then sit out another 6 they're that lenient.

Thank you to all respondents.

Monitor whether you can sit out hands and also increase your bet willy nilly

and thanks for figuring out how to start a thread

Yes. Back-counting (standing behind a table and counting) and wonging-in (jumping in once the count is favorable).

As far as playing optimally, I don't have the answer, since it depends on your specific situation. Things like BR, spread, allowable ROR, etc. should be taken into account. When people ask such questions, I always recommend buying CVCX -- card-counting blackjack simulation software. It can be found at qfit.com. It costs less than $100, and it is absolutely necessary to a card-counter's success, I say.

Thanks man. You could in theory wait till the count was +30 play 1 hand and then leave they're that much of a joke. Since its liberal vegas rules any ballpark house edge percentages I don't have a 100 dollars to spend on that kinda stuff (student :( ) although i feel i might be able to make a decent amount of them haha.

PS - Wonging-in is a great phrase haha

What does "willy nilly" mean? - English not first language

Quote: ElisVandyck

What does "willy nilly" mean? - English not first language

it means 'to do as you please', often used for behavior that would be expected to normally create objection

Quote: ElisVandyck

Thanks man. You could in theory wait till the count was +30

Good luck.

No matter the count, you can still lose.

What counting system are you using?

Quote: ElisVandyck

Thanks man. You could in theory wait till the count was +30 play 1 hand and then leave they're that much of a joke. Since its liberal vegas rules any ballpark house edge percentages I don't have a 100 dollars to spend on that kinda stuff (student :( ) although i feel i might be able to make a decent amount of them haha.

PS - Wonging-in is a great phrase haha

If you don't have $100, then you can't play. You need at least $5000 to play at the $5 tables. Even when the count is high, you still lose a lot. You are waiting for that blackjack, double downs, etc. if you are going to Wong in with $5 when the count is +30 (lol count never gets this high) with a $5 bet, you will be making pennies. Even if you Wong in at count of 4 with $5, you ain't making nothing. Not worth you time. Gotta be prepared to bet $50 when count is good. But like I said, you need the bankroll to back it since you still lose a lot.

The split requested by OdiousGambit has been moved here.

Quote: ElisVandyck

HEY GUYS I HAVE A QUESTION ON BLACKJACK.

At my local casino you are allowed to sit out hands (and the slow pace makes it incredibly easy to card count) is there an optimum strategy when used in conjunction with card counting (zen count) and what is the player advantage if used perfectly. You really can sit out for 6 hands, play 1, then sit out another 6 they're that lenient.

Thank you to all respondents.

Hi ElisVandyck, welcome to the forums. It sounds like you're on the path of learning how to have an advantage at your local game. There's several things that need noted though (in my opinion). One, when you sit out 10 hands in a row, waiting for a good count, then come back in betting hard, I hope you realize this doesn't always go unnoticed. Pit bosses and security in the sky will eventually catch on to what you're doing, and then you'll lose the ability to play at your local favorite place. Now if you have other options in the area, maybe this is a risk you're willing to take, but if the next closest casino is hours away, this should definitely be something to take in to consideration.

You say they have liberal rules. What are the rules? If the game is decent enough why not just play through "for the most part." In my A to Z Counting Cards in Blackjack thread I talk about playing down until TC = -1 and then sitting out (for shoe games). There's always a good reason to duck out of bad shoes and experience will just provide you with more (take a phone call, go to the bathroom, sit out because you're losing to 'change the flow of the cards' lol).

Also, if you review my thread you should be able to yourself, using nothing more than Excel, come up with your hourly EV for that game. You can plug in the house edge, your betting scheme, etc, and you can see how much you stand to make an hour. As was also previously pointed out you must also incorporate things like RoR and bankroll size in doing this.

Lastly, as you'll learn eventually, getting a lot of hands is very important. A slow game is good for "training" and learning to count in a live environment... but a slow game is NOT worth very much to a counter looking to make good money. Slow games means a little number of hands per hour, and if/when you review my thread I hope you'll see that this is a very, very bad thing for your EV.

Feel free to post any questions, and good luck.

Quote:

At my local casino you are allowed to sit out hands (and the slow pace makes it incredibly easy to card count) is there an optimum strategy when used in conjunction with card counting (zen count). You really can sit out for 6 hands, play 1, then sit out another 6 they're that lenient.

Thank you to all respondents.

Most casinos will allow mid-shoe entry, except at 1 or 2 deck games or in "high limit" areas.

Usually, it's best to sit out hands whenever you are in a "neutral" or negative count, because the house has the edge. The advantages of sitting out are that it lowers your risk level and allows you to use a lower spread. However, you may open yourself to extra scrutiny because the casino may ask "WHY is this guy sitting out hands?".

Finally, you will, not may, but WILL piss off other players because they will think that your sitting out and re-entering is "ruining the order of the cards". I have sat out and come back and had players ask the casino to throw me out. I have even had dealers tell the rest of the table that I made them lose. Sit out if you feel that it will help you, but be prepared for abuse. Try to bet at a level that is higher than the other players (eg. at a $10 table where the most anyone is betting is $20, bet $40 if you can tolerate it). I suggest that you try to look for tables with fewer players because it's one thing to piss off one player, and quite another to piss off five players and have all of them against you: booing when you win, cheering when you lose, etc.