Boz
Boz
Joined: Sep 22, 2011
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February 19th, 2015 at 6:56:49 PM permalink
In their never ending attempt to destroy BJ as we know it, I observed a new variant this week at Harrahs New Orleans. Called 5+5 it is regular BJ, 3/2 ($5 min) that also REQUIRES you to also bet $5 on the Xtreme 21+3 side bet. So side bets are no longer an option at these tables, but a requirement. I didn't bother to look at the rest of the rules for the game, but yes the table was packed once again showing the odds just don't matter to most players.
Romes
Romes
Joined: Jul 22, 2014
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February 20th, 2015 at 8:07:24 AM permalink
Wow. I wonder how long it will take for the casino to have table games where you sit down and just hand them $5 cash every 5 minutes or so. I'm betting those tables would be packed as well...
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
studmuffn
studmuffn
Joined: Jan 14, 2015
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February 20th, 2015 at 8:29:30 AM permalink
Wow, I was there a few months ago and the dealers were encouraging us to bet the 21+3 side bet because they'd count it towards the table minimum bet (at a $15 table, they'd suggest $10 blackjack bet and $5 side bet). Clever ploy on their part as it only adds to HA, and about a third of players were putting something on the side bet every hand. I guess the player mentality was that by doing so, they could play blackjack hands at less than the house minimum. Whatever the reasoning, sounds like Harrahs found it lucrative enough that they actually now require the side bet at low min tables. I'll never play blackjack there again.
JimRockford
JimRockford
Joined: Apr 17, 2012
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February 20th, 2015 at 8:56:18 AM permalink
Quote: Romes

Wow. I wonder how long it will take for the casino to have table games where you sit down and just hand them $5 cash every 5 minutes or so. I'm betting those tables would be packed as well...

Kinda like in Oklahoma where they charge $0.25 fee for each hand? $5 tables are full.
"Truth is ever to be found in the simplicity, and not in the multiplicity and confusion of things." - Isaac Newton
arcticfun
arcticfun
Joined: Oct 2, 2013
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February 21st, 2015 at 6:42:27 AM permalink
21+3 can be beaten by tracking the concentration of different suits and targeting the flush. That said, requiring a bet on the bonus bet is, I think criminal... It beats the CA non-Indian houses that require a vig, though... =P
Romes
Romes
Joined: Jul 22, 2014
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February 23rd, 2015 at 8:48:33 AM permalink
Quote: arcticfun

21+3 can be beaten by tracking the concentration of different suits and targeting the flush. That said, requiring a bet on the bonus bet is, I think criminal... It beats the CA non-Indian houses that require a vig, though... =P


If my 'beaten' you mean you can get a tiny, tiny advantage that is worth maybe $8/hour (max betting $25 at the 'right' time), then sure, it can be "beaten." Betting $25/hand, with perfect BS, for an hour would lose your EV win from the side bet... It takes a lot more cumbersome counting system to find that $8/hour too, so it isn't even something you could pass off to a friend to do on the side.

I agree it's horrible to make it mandatory. At what point are you not even playing "blackjack" anymore?
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
Boz
Boz
Joined: Sep 22, 2011
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February 23rd, 2015 at 10:47:03 AM permalink
Quote: arcticfun

21+3 can be beaten by tracking the concentration of different suits and targeting the flush. That said, requiring a bet on the bonus bet is, I think criminal... It beats the CA non-Indian houses that require a vig, though... =P




Also this is not the regular 21+3, but the "Xtreme" version

The regular version has a HA of around 3% (Not exact) and the Xtreme around 14%. Naturally they are using the xtreme paytable.

I would expect this 5+5 game to start showing up at other CZR locations soon, if it already hasn't.

Make it 10+5 and it will be at every Vegas Party Pit.

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