Greasyjohn
Greasyjohn
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February 2nd, 2015 at 1:19:31 PM permalink
I just got back from Vegas and I thought Iíd share some unusual blackjack experiences from this trip.

On one hand I was playing third base and I had a 6,7 vs a dealer 10-up. I drew an 8 for 21. The player to my right doubled on 10 (not warranted by the count). So the dealer turns over his down-card and revels an ace for a natural. (I donít remember if the dealer checked for blackjack and he didnít remember either.) The pit boss came over and pushed my hand and gave the player that doubled down back his double down bet and only kept his original wager (he didnít have a total of 21 after the double down).

On another weird play at another casino I was playing heads-up. I look down to pick up my two-card hand and thereís three cards sitting on the table (that's never happened to me before), and the dealerís up-card is a five. The pitboss is called over and I asked if I could just pick up two of the unseen cards, and he said, ďYes, you havenít looked at them right?Ē And I said that I hadnít. So I turn over two fours. The pitboss asks me if I want to proceed or call my 4,4 dead. I say Iíll play and I continue to split. I wind up with two stiff hands and the dealer goes on to a pat hand that would have beat both mine. The pitboss calls the whole round a push.

At this same casino and dealer, a little later, the dealer has an ace up. After she determines she does not have a natural I look at my hand and I have 13. The count is less than -4 and I say to myself if I draw a 4 Iím going to immediately hit again. So I get a 4! As I hit again and bust I fumble the cards onto the table as though I mistakenly hit my hard 17. No mistake.

I was playing at another casino at a $25 min DD, DAS, DA2, H17 game. I had a stack of green out. 6 or so chips. Dealer has an ace up and asks for insurance. I just push out about half my bet and ask if Iím okay. He says Iíll get paid $150 (meaning the insurance payout). But I didnít interpret what he said to mean that I would be paid less than my original wager. So the dealer has the 10 under for blackjack, pulls a $25 chip from my stack and puts it in his rack and give me back the rest of the original wager along with the insurance bet. I said to him, ď I asked you if I was okay.Ē He said he told me that I would get back $150 (and that my wager was $175). I explained that when I asked him if I was okay he should have told me I needed another $12.50 to insure my whole bet. He kinda called it a miscommunication.

Anyway, I let it go. I should have just put out more that enough on the insurance wager, which is what I usually do if thereís odd change required and I donít have the lower denomination chips or I donít want to hassle with it. I brought the whole issue up later with a pitboss and he told me that the dealer was probably new. (I was kinda hoping that the pitboss would give me the $25 but he didnít.)
1BB
1BB
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February 2nd, 2015 at 1:40:25 PM permalink
Let me take the first one. Both players lost but only one got their money back. Fair?
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
Greasyjohn
Greasyjohn
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February 2nd, 2015 at 2:04:37 PM permalink
We should have both lost our original wager, of course. I guess the pitboss felt that it would have been a bigger let down for me to hit to 21 and still take my wager. Anyway, that's the decision he made.
Deucekies
Deucekies
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February 2nd, 2015 at 2:17:18 PM permalink
Quote: Greasyjohn

We should have both lost our original wager, of course. I guess the pitboss felt that it would have been a bigger let down for me to hit to 21 and still take my wager. Anyway, that's the decision he made.


Letting your 21 push is the standard ruling where I work, and it's one I agree with. If the dealer has a blackjack and lets you guys play out the hand, his hand is treated as a 21. 21 pushes against 21. The other player had the opportunity to get to 21 same as you, and he didn't make it.

Of course the double down is returned because it never should have happened.
Casinos are not your friends, they want your money. But so does Disneyland. And there is no chance in hell that you will go to Disneyland and come back with more money than you went with. - AxelWolf and Mickeycrimm
TriathlonTodd
TriathlonTodd
Joined: Jan 23, 2015
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February 2nd, 2015 at 5:52:26 PM permalink
Quote: Greasyjohn

On one hand I was playing third base and I had a 6,7 vs a dealer 10-up. I drew an 8 for 21. The player to my right doubled on 10 ( not warranted by the count). So the dealer turns over his down-card and revels an ace for a natural. (I donít remember if the dealer checked for blackjack and he didnít remember either. The pit boss came over and pushed my hand and gave the player that doubled down back his double down bet and only kept his original wager ( he didnít have a total of 21 after the double down).

On another weird play at another casino I was playing heads-up. I look down to pick up my two-card hand and thereís three cards sitting on the table (that's never happened to me before), and the dealerís up-card is a five. The pitboss is called over and I asked if I could just pick up two of the unseen cards, and he said, ďYes, you havenít looked at them right?Ē And I said that I hadnít. So I turn over two fours. The pitboss asks me if I want to proceed or call my 4,4 dead. I say Iíll play and I continue to split. I wind up with two stiff hands and the dealer goes on to a pat hand that would have beat both mine. The pitboss calls the whole round a push.



A common criticism of floor people is that they don't treat problem hands the same, even within the same casino. Sure, there should be established procedures, but often there aren't / there hasn't been training for certain types of things, so the floor tries to adapt one of the other rules to fit the situation.

I've experienced these types of resolutions before. I've also experienced other ways to handle it. I'm just supposed to act as the floor tells me to do. It has always been somewhere along the spectrum of the bare minimum better than what should have happened to hands where no losing bet was taken.

My advice is to politely ask the floor about a favorable outcome, but don't be persistent about it.

Quote: Greasyjohn


I was playing at another casino at a $25 min DD, DAS, DA2, H17 game. I had a stack of green out. 6 or so chips. Dealer has an ace up and asks for insurance. I just push out about half my bet and ask if Iím okay. He says Iíll get paid $150 (meaning the insurance payout). But I didnít think about what he said to mean that I would be paid less than my original wager. So the dealer has the 10 under for blackjack, pulls a $25 chip from my stack and puts it in his rack and give me back the rest of the original wager along with the insurance bet. I said to him, ď I asked you if I was okay.Ē He said he told me that I would get back $150 (and that my wager was $175). I explained that when I asked him if I was okay he should have told me I needed another $12.50 to insure my whole bet. He kinda called it a miscommunication.

Anyway, I let it go. I should have just put out more that enough on the insurance wager, which is what I usually do if thereís odd change required and I donít have the lower denomination chips or I donít want to hassle with it. I brought the whole issue up later with a pitboss and he told me that the dealer was probably new. (I was kinda hoping that the pitboss would give me the $25 but he didnít.)



I doubt you would ever get a floor to approve the extra quarter. With insurance you are allowed to bet UP TO half your wager. Your dealer took your question as "Is it okay that I bet less than half?". So his response that you will get paid $150 was an appropriate response, since it is okay that you did what you did. His response wasn't the most direct and better customer service might have been warranted. Since there was no mistake in gameplay, just in the amount bet, which is the player's responsibility, most floors will be sympathetic, but not give you anything.

I usually point out to players that they are under half for insurance, since the typical insurance bettor always wants to bet half.
RS
RS
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February 3rd, 2015 at 2:52:43 AM permalink
I've insured a BJ for less before. Dealer was so wtf confused and what to take/pay/push.
Baccaratfrom79
Baccaratfrom79
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February 3rd, 2015 at 2:53:28 AM permalink
My own personal experience after over 30 years of playing, baccarat and Blackjack. (bj for the first 20 along with bac and then baccarat 95% the last 10 plus years) is that I let arguments go. I don't throw a fit and I very rarely challenge. If I happened to have a sizable wager up and I should have won, sure-I will throw a fit and get the pit boss or higher involved. But then I leave the table. Too much experience in almost always losing after the verbal, the mishap, the strange plays and the challenges. Not worth it. Somehow and for some reason, it's better to stay quite, let it go or get up and leave for a while. But again, all my experience and IMHO only.
Bac79=Hazardous Material and Chemical person correcting other's mistakes. Non AP'er, I can't count cards, low intelligence. Sprinkles magical dust on the cards. Has a lucky monkey. Baby also has a green one. Sum it up: "It's okay just blame me, it's all my fault"! ( No one believes me--so I chose to stop posting)
Hunterhill
Hunterhill
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February 3rd, 2015 at 5:02:08 AM permalink
Quote: RS

I've insured a BJ for less before. Dealer was so wtf confused and what to take/pay/push.


I had the same thing happen. I insured a Blackjack by mistake instead of taking even money. It went from dealer to floor to the pitboss and finally the shift manager had to come to figure it out. The floor and pit were trying to tell me that I lost my hand and
Because I didn't take even money. Oh and the dealer did have blackjack
The mountain is tall but grass grows on top of the mountain.
Edge21
Edge21
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February 3rd, 2015 at 12:37:00 PM permalink
Strange plays indeed Greasyjohn...sadly every and any time any player (or even I) "DARE" to correct the dealer, we're treated as if these "immortal" men do not make the same mistakes as us "suckers". So yes, I always keep my mouth shut (especially when they over-pay) but speak up if they make mistakes at the cost of my pocket.
Deucekies
Deucekies
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February 3rd, 2015 at 12:40:26 PM permalink
Quote: RS

I've insured a BJ for less before. Dealer was so wtf confused and what to take/pay/push.


I know this has come up here before. How often do you make this play, and have you always been allowed to do it? I can definitely see a pit boss saying "No, you have a blackjack, your option is even money."
Casinos are not your friends, they want your money. But so does Disneyland. And there is no chance in hell that you will go to Disneyland and come back with more money than you went with. - AxelWolf and Mickeycrimm

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