Stocks72
Stocks72
Joined: Feb 11, 2014
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July 14th, 2014 at 9:24:58 AM permalink
I recently visited Caesars in Atlantic City. During my six day stay I played about 38 hours at their blackjack tables, $25 and $50 minimum tables. During which the count rarely ventured into a high count. The count remained mostly average, sometimes pushing a bit higher or dipping a bit lower but nothing extreme. The count basically NEVER went really high or really low. The first couple of days I lost a little, not ever gaining more than I've invested.

One afternoon I sat at an empty table and the dealer was extremely informative. He was a bit odd too but humorous. Usually dealers take me for a casual player and sometimes suggest what hands not to hit or split or double et cetera. I even ask for advice on tricky hands that sometimes catch the eye of bosses when played differently announcing a card counter. Some joking and conversation usually sets the mood for successful play.

Surprisingly we had to wait for the ASM to finish. During which this odd dealer explained the process of the ASM. He stated that it reads each card, counts to make sure they are all there, can reorganize them as if fresh from a new deck, and most of all -- something I was not aware of -- can group the cards to maintain an average count. He even continued to say how it maintained a slight edge in the casino's favor, but much less than slot machines or other casino games. "Your best bet would be blackjack," he said.

Whether or not this dealer knew what he was talking about I don't know. But my years playing blackjack this was a first where I noticed I could not achieve an edge over the tables.

So I walked up to the dingy Taj Mahal where cards are shuffeled by hand and won all money lost at Caesars plus a bit more.

Maybe it was a bad run at Caesars. I've had losing streaks before. But even during those losing streaks the count varied from high to low. Never stayed in the middle like at Caesars shoe after many many shoe.

For me it was a lesson learned. I'll never play at tables with auto shufflers.

Oh... and I am referring to automatic shufflers (when 6-8 decks are being shuffled while other shoe is being dealt), not the continuous auto shufflers that spit cards out to be dealt.
dwheatley
dwheatley
Joined: Nov 16, 2009
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July 14th, 2014 at 9:37:15 AM permalink
My local casino has ASMs for many of their 8-deck games. I get very high and low counts.

It would probably be illegal for the casinos to knowingly put decks into play that had been arranged in any way. Imagine the slippery slope it leads to: intentionally setting a deck to make the dealer win every hand on a full player table.

Summary: I think the ASMs are fair and you were just unlucky to have a boring run of counts. You shouldn't lose much for your bankroll when this is happening because you should be at your min, but I know it can be boring.
Wisdom is the quality that keeps you out of situations where you would otherwise need it
tringlomane
tringlomane
Joined: Aug 25, 2012
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July 14th, 2014 at 9:54:24 AM permalink
Quote: dwheatley


It would probably be illegal for the casinos to knowingly put decks into play that had been arranged in any way.



I would think so.

This is a piece of NJ state law. And imo forcing a deck to be count neutral is violating the definition of "random".

§ 13:69F-2.5 Shuffle and cut of the cards

(a) Immediately prior to commencement of play, unless the cards were pre-shuffled pursuant to N.J.A.C. 13:69E-1.18(r), after any round of play as may be determined by the casino licensee and after each shoe of cards is dealt, the dealer shall shuffle the cards so that they are randomly intermixed.
1BB
1BB
Joined: Oct 10, 2011
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July 14th, 2014 at 9:56:42 AM permalink
This sounds like yet another dealer who likes to hear himself talk. You're playing an 8 deck game, H17 and no surrender with mediocre pen. Is that correct? What was the frequency of positive counts in those 38 hours which, by the way, is a very small sample?

For the shuffle not to be random I would think that the machine would have to be outfitted with RFID or something similar and I just don't think that's the case. I don't know the legalities but that sounds like cheating to me. Isn't that why MindPlay never caught on?

I have played many hours with ASMs and have never had a problem that I'm aware of. I welcome the increase in hands per hour.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
kewlj
kewlj
Joined: Apr 17, 2012
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July 14th, 2014 at 9:59:06 AM permalink
Quote: dwheatley



It would probably be illegal for the casinos to knowingly put decks into play that had been arranged in any way.



There is no 'probably' about it. It would be illegal in NJ and most US jurisdictions. I would worry about Indian Casinos, Cruise boat casinos and casinos in other lands with questionable oversight. Maybe even some smaller operations in places that do have decent oversight. But not big corporate places....just too much to lose.

It isn't even the fine which would be big. Just a serious accusation of a casino cheating would be a death blow to that casino. Players will put up with a lot of s**t, deteriorating rules and paytables that give the casino bigger advantages, but serious rumors of cheating would be very damaging and any kind of proof of intentional cheating would be a deathblow to the casino and chain such as Caesars. The industry has surprised me many times with some of the stupidity they have shown, so while nothing surprises me anymore, I just can't see anyone being that stupid.
Just say no to 6:5 Blackjack, Continuous shuffle machines and Blackjack the Forum. All are Negative expected value.
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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July 14th, 2014 at 10:25:48 AM permalink
I agree that it's probably illegal.

But I seriously doubt it's even possible.

Add one ploppy not playing basic strategy, and, to borrow a ploppy's favorite line, it messes up the sequence of the cards.
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁 Note that the same could be said for Religion. I.E. Religion is nothing more than organized superstition. 🤗
kewlj
kewlj
Joined: Apr 17, 2012
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July 14th, 2014 at 10:29:57 AM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

I agree that it's probably illegal.

But I seriously doubt it's even possible.

Add one ploppy not playing basic strategy, and, to borrow a ploppy's favorite line, it messes up the sequence of the cards.



Yeah but sequencing isn't necessary to give the casino a bigger advantage. All that is needed is clumping. I do believe the technology is there, making such a scenario possible.
Just say no to 6:5 Blackjack, Continuous shuffle machines and Blackjack the Forum. All are Negative expected value.
Lemieux66
Lemieux66
Joined: Feb 16, 2014
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July 14th, 2014 at 11:05:07 AM permalink
Why the heck is he playing at Caesars anyway? They have the worst rules in town. 8 deck, crappy pen, h17, NMSE for $25 games. Ballys has a 6 deck and it's right there. Even go a short walk to Trop gives you 6 deck, s17, with ok penetration(just avoid Tom the pit boss. He knows counters). Never ever play at Caesars.

The only gambling thing of real note is 9:6 JoB machines with a progressive.
10 eyes for an eye. 10 teeth for a tooth. 10 bucks for a buck?! Hit the bad guys where it hurts the most: the face and the wallet.
AxiomOfChoice
AxiomOfChoice
Joined: Sep 12, 2012
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July 14th, 2014 at 11:13:23 AM permalink
Dealers are not an authoritative source for anything. He is just repeating things that he heard from the degenerate gamblers. I'll bet he also tells you to never split 9s and to stand on all your 16s.

When people see the cards come out in streaks, they think that they could not possibly be random. When people see the cards come out evenly, they think that they could not possibly be random. It's pretty easy to believe in conspiracy theories when you twist any possible outcome to support them.
kewlj
kewlj
Joined: Apr 17, 2012
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July 14th, 2014 at 11:17:31 AM permalink
Most people just really over-react to short term results and jump to all sorts of crazy conclusions.
Just say no to 6:5 Blackjack, Continuous shuffle machines and Blackjack the Forum. All are Negative expected value.

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