timing
timing
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July 7th, 2014 at 4:41:49 PM permalink
Interested to know how prevalent the 1 to 6 continuous shufflers are throughout the industry these days. Is it only the larger casinos who use them (who can afford them) or are they more widespread now with the benefits of productivity gains.
1BB
1BB
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July 7th, 2014 at 5:03:48 PM permalink
The one2six continuous shuffle machines were discontinued on blackjack at two of the largest casinos that I know of. Foxwoods and Mohegan Sun both dropped them a couple of years ago citing high fees and poor player acceptance.

Players of all levels avoided them, many not knowing why but going by word of mouth.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
nickolay411
nickolay411
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July 7th, 2014 at 8:28:56 PM permalink
All Casinos in Macau use the CSM's so very much dominating Asia.
Croupier
Croupier
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July 7th, 2014 at 10:23:24 PM permalink
Quote: timing

Interested to know how prevalent the 1 to 6 continuous shufflers are throughout the industry these days. Is it only the larger casinos who use them (who can afford them) or are they more widespread now with the benefits of productivity gains.



The vast majority of UK Blackjack tables have CSMs, for 3CP it depends on the chain, but Grosvenor mostly do, and Genting it depends.
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rhodyBob
rhodyBob
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July 8th, 2014 at 4:06:08 PM permalink
There must be different terms for the two card-shuffling machines I think I know about:

A machine that shuffles a complete set of cards (up to eight decks??) all at once. The ones I have seen alternate two sets of decks, and all that the machine does is automate the shuffling process that the dealer would normally do by hand, speeding up the process, but presenting to the dealer a completely separate shuffled deck each time. The dealer swaps out the decks, but otherwise it's a normal, countable set of cards.

A machine that continuously shuffles a single set of cards, into which the dealer places the cards from a single (or sometimes more than just one) round, somewhat randomly. The process uses just one set of cards that are, for all intents, continuously being reordered. Since it's not a fixed sequence as is the case in a manual process, this deck is not countable.

Is this correct? Are there standard terms for the two variations? I see "CSM" all the time. Which one is a CSM, and what's the other one called?

Also, since this sort of follows, is the continuously-being-shuffled deck the same as an "infinite deck"? Would seem so, since the shoe never ends.
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
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July 8th, 2014 at 4:18:15 PM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
Venthus
Venthus
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July 8th, 2014 at 5:00:08 PM permalink
Quote: rhodyBob

Also, since this sort of follows, is the continuously-being-shuffled deck the same as an "infinite deck"? Would seem so, since the shoe never ends.



No: an infinite deck is only used in digital games or in mathematical exercises.

An 8-deck game has 32/416 aces, or a 7.69% chance of drawing one. Four cards come out and, amazingly enough, they're all aces. Now the shoe is 28/412, or a 6.79% chance of drawing another one.

In an infinite deck, you ALWAYS have a 1/13 (7.69%) chance of drawing a card of given value, regardless of what cards have been used. Alternatively phrased: an infinite deck is entirely composition independent.
rhodyBob
rhodyBob
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July 8th, 2014 at 5:44:31 PM permalink
Then...

ASM is Automatic Shuffling Machine, which shuffles a complete deck, all at once?
CSM is Continuous Shuffling Machine, which is constantly re-mixing small portions of a deck into the whole deck?

But...

Wouldn't a deck in which you are "Continuously" replacing each card, as it is drawn, back into the deck and "Shuffling" it, like a "Machine", be, for all intents and purposes, infinite? In an infinite deck, would it be possible to draw two tens of spades in a row? Or, (heh...heh...) an infinite number of tens of spades in a row? Could not an infinite deck be shuffled such that all the tens of spades floated to the top?

I've seen some very intense mathematical conversations happen here in this forum, making me think the mathemaniacs may outnumber the gamblers.

So?
rhodyBob
rhodyBob
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July 8th, 2014 at 5:51:52 PM permalink
Quote: 1BB

The one2six continuous shuffle machines were discontinued on blackjack at two of the largest casinos that I know of. Foxwoods and Mohegan Sun both dropped them a couple of years ago citing high fees and poor player acceptance



Dealers have told me that most dealers hated them, since the dealers became little more than human pachinko machines, without the monotony breaker of doing a shuffle, which allowed for at least a brief chance to not be constantly watching the till and the spots and the hand signals of the players.

Plus maintenance and down-time of the machines themselves, which the unhappy dealers may have (not surprisingly) contributed to.
hwccdealer
hwccdealer
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July 8th, 2014 at 5:54:38 PM permalink
Quote: 1BB

The one2six continuous shuffle machines were discontinued on blackjack at two of the largest casinos that I know of. Foxwoods and Mohegan Sun both dropped them a couple of years ago citing high fees and poor player acceptance.

Players of all levels avoided them, many not knowing why but going by word of mouth.



We use them here for our $10 6-5 blackjack but have discontinued them for everything else - we used to use one for War but discontinued it for "contract reasons." I guess War is virtually impossible to count anyway.

That said, our $10 blackjack games get a lot less play than our other games that are 3-2, and all the annoying ploppies who pound the table and wave off 14 against a face card play the $15 3-2 games.

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