Correcting the dealer - right or wrong?
I have been at tables where players corrected the H17/S17 errors that a dealer made, and when a player might give back, on his hand, an overpayment, or point out that his bet is a push, not a win. Last night a couple of us exchanged furtive glances, enough so that I knew that I was not the only one who noticed, but we played on.
The classic moral dilemma, on a couple of levels. I didn't say anything at the time, except to acknowledge to other players that I, too, saw what was going on. But looking back, I wonder about it, and what I did and did not do. Do the eyes-in-the-sky monitor things nowadays so closely that this would be noticed? Not for me so much, but from Grampie's position. Would pointing it out and making it more obvious put him at more or greater risk of losing his job? Clearly everyone would be sure to point out an error that worked against the player, but all of the mistakes I noticed were to the player's benefit. Would they tend to look more closely at the video at a $25 or $100 table than at a $5 table?
I know I always correct the kid at the register when he/she hands me back more change than I deserve, and I've walked back into a Home Depot to pay for something I forgot to take out of the carriage at checkout. If I notice something like this, I correct it. But this is a casino. Is it different?
Any thoughts? Is there a generally accepted practice when something like this happens?
Quote: rhodyBobLast night I ran into "Grampie", a retired guy with nothing but time on his hands who - so he said - got hired as a dealer last fall because the casino "needed new blackjack dealers in time for Christmas Eve." I guess he made it past the post-holiday temp-worker layoff. In the hour or so that I played at his table he made at least four mistakes - standing on a soft 17 (table was H17), making change incorrectly (miscounting reds and pinks when changing a $25 chip for side bets), and even once paying off a match-the-dealer when the player joked that his 5-2 matched the dealer's 7. That one was the one that alerted us all that Grampie was in a little over his head. It was a $5 table, it was hectic, with people in and out of the table, and he looked more than a little overtired. Nice guy, personable, English-speaking, friendly. My guess is if I was a dealer I would be just as out of my element as he was, if I was forced to admit that I am as old, or even older, than he was.
I have been at tables where players corrected the H17/S17 errors that a dealer made, and when a player might give back, on his hand, an overpayment, or point out that his bet is a push, not a win. Last night a couple of us exchanged furtive glances, enough so that I knew that I was not the only one who noticed, but we played on.
The classic moral dilemma, on a couple of levels. I didn't say anything at the time, except to acknowledge to other players that I, too, saw what was going on. But looking back, I wonder about it, and what I did and did not do. Do the eyes-in-the-sky monitor things nowadays so closely that this would be noticed? Not for me so much, but from Grampie's position. Would pointing it out and making it more obvious put him at more or greater risk of losing his job? Clearly everyone would be sure to point out an error that worked against the player, but all of the mistakes I noticed were to the player's benefit. Would they tend to look more closely at the video at a $25 or $100 table than at a $5 table?
I know I always correct the kid at the register when he/she hands me back more change than I deserve, and I've walked back into a Home Depot to pay for something I forgot to take out of the carriage at checkout. If I notice something like this, I correct it. But this is a casino. Is it different?
Any thoughts? Is there a generally accepted practice when something like this happens?
Probably shouldn't be any different, but what I do is:
- if it negatively affects any player, I'll say something
- if it positively affects only me, I'll say something once
- if it positively affects another player I say nothing
I played UTH in Mesquite last weekend with the worst dealer ever and she erred on the side of taking the money always. It was exhausting
Quote: offTopicProbably shouldn't be any different, but what I do is:
- if it negatively affects any player, I'll say something
- if it positively affects only me, I'll say something once
- if it positively affects another player I say nothing
I played UTH in Mesquite last weekend with the worst dealer ever and she erred on the side of taking the money always. It was exhausting
I don't think that the OP did anything wrong. I will never point out errors in my favor. I'm sure that I occasionally miss some that go against me.
It's the house's job to deal the game; I'm just there to play. If I wanted to deal I'd be on the other side and getting paid for it.
If a dealer consistently made errors that favored the house I'd complain to the supervisor or pit boss. Obviously every dealer will make occasional errors, but if you are talking about repeated errors, and they all favor the house, that is getting close to cheating.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceI don't think that the OP did anything wrong. I will never point out errors in my favor. I'm sure that I occasionally miss some that go against me.
It's the house's job to deal the game; I'm just there to play. If I wanted to deal I'd be on the other side and getting paid for it.
This is a perfectly understandable stance that (since this question has come up before on here) I will say most agree with. Personally, I don't want money I'm not due by the cards, and will kick back an overpay. I'll speak up when someone else gets swept and shouldn't have been. But I won't bust another player's overpay on purpose (if it's a situation where they've misread their own hand, AND the house makes them back up on previously wrong pays after correcting mine, too bad for the other players; I just won't have it).
I do think that the house needs to mind their own dealers' competence. I don't recall ever telling the pit they have a dealer who doesn't know what the hell they're doing. I just want my card karma to stay positive (yes, I'm superstitious that way).
Once a baccarat dealer saw my bet on Banker and my lesser bet on Banker beside it which was clearly a dealer's toke bet. She properly paid off my bet and properly paid off the Toke bet, then properly took the toke bet and put it in her toke box. All fine except I noticed that she took a marker for my commission and charged me five percent of the full amount that I had bet instead of five percent of solely my bet. She was charging me a commission on my toke bet!
That is something that caused me to catch the floor person's eyes but quick!
Note: For those unfamiliar with Baccarat, a winning Banker hand is paid off during play at 1:1 so as to avoid delay, but the dealer takes a lammer and keeps track of a five percent commission so that at the end of the game, it works out that a winning Banker hand is actually paid at 19:20.
Delays and disputes over this "commission" is what gave rise to EZ Baccarat, a game without any such commission that therefore is played faster.
Outside of WA, I am not bound by that rule, but still remain honest up to a point. I remember once playing in Oregon, I was paid on a push. I told the dealer that I wasn't supposed to win, and the dealer's response was basically "I don't know what you mean" and quickly picked the cards up. At that point, I decided I wasn't going to point out any more mistakes during that trip.
Another moment later that day (different dealer) further cemented that stance. I was playing UTH with two others. There was a 10-high straight on the board, and the dealer had a Jack for the higher straight which beat all three of us.
Player A) Gets paid on Play, Ante, Blind and Trips.
Player B) Loses Play, Ante and Blind, and gets paid 7-1 on Trips (The floor verifies this payout too!)
Player Me) Pushes Play, Ante and Blind, and gets paid 4-1 on Trips
So all three of us got three different payouts for the same hand, and none of them were right.
So I guess my stance is this: Do the right thing and point out the mistake. Even the best dealers in the world lose their place and make a mistake once in a while, and they shouldn't get in trouble for it. But the moment the dealer seems unreceptive to corrections (and especially if the floor is verifying those same mistakes) is when the floodgates are opened.
Somebody overpays me, I pay it back, doesn't matter where: 7-11, cinema, or table game.
Quote: DeucekiesSo I guess my stance is this: Do the right thing and point out the mistake.
My stance is that it is not "wrong" to not point out the mistake. It's me against them, and the rules say that it's their job to handle payouts, not mine.
I can see how some people will prefer to point it out, which is fine too.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceMy stance is that it is not "wrong" to not point out the mistake. It's me against them, and the rules say that it's their job to handle payouts, not mine.
I can see how some people will prefer to point it out, which is fine too.
Same with the Burger King drive through: "it's you against THEM, those greedy corporate conglomerates, dammit!" You buy a Whopper for $5, pay with a ten, but they give you change for $20, you grab the cash and make a stash! It's their JOB to do it right!
Quote: PaigowdanSame with the Burger King drive through: "it's you against THEM, those greedy corporate conglomerates, dammit!" You buy a Whopper for $5, pay with a ten, but they give you change for $20, you grab the cash and make a stash! It's their JOB to do it right!
I don't consider eating at burger king to be playing a game, so it's not me against anybody.
I wouldn't have a problem with someone keeping the incorrect change though. I probably wouldn't do it in most circumstances, but of course it is their job to do it right!
Quote: rhodyBobLast night I ran into "Grampie", a retired guy with nothing but time on his hands who - so he said - got hired as a dealer last fall because the casino "needed new blackjack dealers in time for Christmas Eve." I guess he made it past the post-holiday temp-worker layoff. In the hour or so that I played at his table he made at least four mistakes - standing on a soft 17 (table was H17), making change incorrectly (miscounting reds and pinks when changing a $25 chip for side bets), and even once paying off a match-the-dealer when the player joked that his 5-2 matched the dealer's 7. That one was the one that alerted us all that Grampie was in a little over his head. It was a $5 table, it was hectic, with people in and out of the table, and he looked more than a little overtired. Nice guy, personable, English-speaking, friendly. My guess is if I was a dealer I would be just as out of my element as he was, if I was forced to admit that I am as old, or even older, than he was.
I have been at tables where players corrected the H17/S17 errors that a dealer made, and when a player might give back, on his hand, an overpayment, or point out that his bet is a push, not a win. Last night a couple of us exchanged furtive glances, enough so that I knew that I was not the only one who noticed, but we played on.
The classic moral dilemma, on a couple of levels. I didn't say anything at the time, except to acknowledge to other players that I, too, saw what was going on. But looking back, I wonder about it, and what I did and did not do. Do the eyes-in-the-sky monitor things nowadays so closely that this would be noticed? Not for me so much, but from Grampie's position. Would pointing it out and making it more obvious put him at more or greater risk of losing his job? Clearly everyone would be sure to point out an error that worked against the player, but all of the mistakes I noticed were to the player's benefit. Would they tend to look more closely at the video at a $25 or $100 table than at a $5 table?
I know I always correct the kid at the register when he/she hands me back more change than I deserve, and I've walked back into a Home Depot to pay for something I forgot to take out of the carriage at checkout. If I notice something like this, I correct it. But this is a casino. Is it different?
Any thoughts? Is there a generally accepted practice when something like this happens?
If you don't smoke and you start pointing out dealer errors that would have helped me, I will immediately light up a cigarette and begin puffing smoke in your direction, hoping that you will ask me to stop so that I can tell you to go F yourself. I will then call you an idiot every single time you make the wrong basic strategy play and it causes the dealer to make a hand, and point this out to anyone who cares in an attempt to make others hostile towards you. I will occasionally clap when you bust. I hope my point is clear that no, you should not correct dealer errors. If you feel bad for some reason, think of it this way: it's not your job to his job for him, and he needs to get better at his job to keep it, not rely on random kindness.
Quote: SonuvabishIf you don't smoke and you start pointing out dealer errors that would have helped me, I will immediately light up a cigarette and begin puffing smoke in your direction, hoping that you will ask me to stop so that I can tell you to go F yourself. I will then call you an idiot every single time you make the wrong basic strategy play and it causes the dealer to make a hand, and point this out to anyone who cares in an attempt to make others hostile towards you. I will occasionally clap when you bust. I hope my point is clear that no, you should not correct dealer errors. If you feel bad for some reason, think of it this way: it's not your job to his job for him, and he needs to get better at his job to keep it, not rely on random kindness.
You would do that??????!!!
So would I :)
Quote: Lemieux66You would do that??????!!!
So would I :)
Not would. That has evolved into my standard procedure for dealing with dudley-do-rights. Most people do not correct favorable dealer errors for other players. The ones that do, more times than not, it's not for the dealer's benefit. It's for some disingenuous and malicious reason, whether they do not want you at the table, jealous that you are getting the payout, upset they are not having a good day and want to spread the misery, etc. Very rarely is it the naive helpful type that wants to make sure no one gets in trouble, because let's face it, those types of super-nice people are more likely to be in church than a casino. The last time something like this happened, it was a middle-aged woman. I sat down and watched her push a double down that should have lost. Then I got paid on $100 that should have lost. Guess who pipes up to let the dealer know "because of the cameras" that I lost? That's the typical way it happens. That woman quickly left after I began smoking (she had requested I not smoke) and employed the angry gaze.
I do what another poster said earlier.
If it is a short pay for someone else then I say something
If I get overpaid I say something 1 time
If someone else gets overpaid I keep my mouth shut unless that person is a real jag off.
I usually try to double-check anything that's close, i.e. if I think a hand might be a push, if there are a lot of aces in a player's hand, if a person reduces their wonky-looking inside bets to table minimum (as my box said yesterday, "There's no pretty way to do that,") but things slip through the cracks. If it's happening constantly, either the dealer needs to practice more or get more sleep.
As for correcting it...well, in my casino, taking money for an incorrect payout and not giving it back constitutes stealing, and that's the state's rule, not ours.
Quote: GWAEI hate when I see dealers mess up. It puts me in an awkward moral dilemma. I obviously want to keep the money but then I feel that I shouldn't. Generally its not because I care if the dealer gets in trouble or that I care that the casino gave me money. It is more about I don't want the pit to come over and say something later.
That's not really a moral dilemma. You're just worried about having to deal with an awkward situation later.
If the pit comes and says something later, just say that you didn't realize. It's not your job to add up the hands, after all.
If they ask for the money back, that's a completely different situation. That's never happened to me. I would probably give it back unless I could come up with a good reason not to. If I had busted out, forget it (I'd just say that my buy-in was all that I was willing to gamble with anyway, and they got it all, so there is no difference). If I raised my bet the next hand and lost, I'd claim that I only raised my bet because I was pressing after having won the previous hand, so they got their money back anyway.
On the other hand, if I was flat-betting the whole time and left with some money, I'd probably give it back after requesting to view the tape.
If the error involves someone I know at the table and it goes against them I'll mention it to them.
If the error involves just a random player at the table, I don't get involved either way.
ZCore13
I don't correct them when they make a mistake in my favor. I let my "winnings" sit there along with my original bet, and if the dealer hasn't caught their mistake by the time they collect all the cards, that money is mine.
At one of the casinos here, there is a dealer that is particularly bad at paying out every hand sometimes when not everyone is a winner. For example, when they have a face card showing and they flip over like an 8, most people have either busted out or made a hand so this dealer often just kind of goes into cruise control and pays every bet that's left out there without thinking about it, when some of us push with an 18 or even have 17.
Wait you guys seriously give back the money? Do you also alert the dealer or boss of a flasher? -__-
Quote: RSI'm in a casino for one reason only, to make money. The only time I speak up of an error is if they take my money on a push or don't pay me on a win. If they over pay me, over pay someone else, or underpay someone else, say nothing. Limit exposure.
Wait you guys seriously give back the money? Do you also alert the dealer or boss of a flasher? -__-
I do it exactly as boymimbo does it, from above. Watch for stray bonus pays, don't accept overpays myself, insist on correcting underpays to any player. But no, if a dealer's flashing, that's on the house, as it were.
Several of us including a good friend of mine were playing blackjack. The dealer was fairly new and the supervisor was watching him pretty closely but rather than trying to help him out, was being a complete ass toward him whenever he could. It was uncomfortable enough we decided to leave. So my friend had $1,750 in a number of different denomination chips. Apparently the supervisor thought the dealer wasn't sorting and cutting them out quickly and properly so with a lot of irritation, he reached over and 'assisted the dealer' and then said "Pay him $2,750". The dealer looked at the chips, pointed at them and said "That's $2,750????" with an extreme exaggerartion. The supervisor then yells "I said pay him $2,750!!".
The dealer looks my friend straight in the eye, subtly shrugs his shoulder, counts out $2,750, and shoves it across the table. My friend tipped the $50 in green and we made a bee line for the cage and then the door. In hindsight we probably should have hit the door first.
We didn't have the least amount of remorse, especially given the attititude of the supervisor.
Quote: boymimboI always correct but if the dealer gives me bad attitude for pointing out their mistake then I will just keep my mouth shut. PGP is my worst dilemma.
Why? Not many mistakes in PGP in general. Fun game. Most problem free game. Dice is dicey.
If the dealer misses a player's hidden flush or straight, and the player does too, I'll let them know "PAY the player."
Quote: PaigowdanWhy? Not many mistakes in PGP in general. Fun game. Most problem free game. Dice is dicey.
If the dealer misses a player's hidden flush or straight, and the player does too, I'll let them know "PAY the player."
PGP is tough because the dealers make a lot of errors setting their hands. (I think that's what boy is talking about from before, but it's my experience as well). I don't like being faced with a reset that benefits me and hurts other players, but I will speak up most of the time with a lot of money up there. I gave up calling the hand as it was exposed a decade ago just because of this. Where I played a lot, the guy next to you could easily be playing 5K a hand; God forbid I was the one who got between a mispay like that because I corrected the dealer.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceThat's not really a moral dilemma. You're just worried about having to deal with an awkward situation later.
If the pit comes and says something later, just say that you didn't realize. It's not your job to add up the hands, after all.
If they ask for the money back, that's a completely different situation. That's never happened to me. I would probably give it back unless I could come up with a good reason not to. If I had busted out, forget it (I'd just say that my buy-in was all that I was willing to gamble with anyway, and they got it all, so there is no difference). If I raised my bet the next hand and lost, I'd claim that I only raised my bet because I was pressing after having won the previous hand, so they got their money back anyway.
On the other hand, if I was flat-betting the whole time and left with some money, I'd probably give it back after requesting to view the tape.
HAHA yeah after I typed it I realized it had nothing to do with morals.
What I should have said.
I hate when I see dealers mess up. It puts me in an awkward can I get away with this dilemma.
Previously in the thread the comparison was made between the dealers (games) and burger king. Here is my take firstly on that analogy. The BIG difference is that the dealers will not be asked to make up the difference out of their own pockets, in other words, if they make a mistake and the money is unrecoverable then the dealer will perhaps get counceling or perhaps a verbal, written whatever warning but that's it. Mostly if the BK employee cashes up short at the end of their shifts, they have to make up the shortage and mosre than likely get some form of HR interference......this makes a big difference to me. I would not want the cashier making $1200 a month to have to pay for his mistake. It would make me feel rotten. Now the dealer who is pulling in between $2500 and $4500 a month, I'm not sure.
The good, casino guy in me says I would always inform the dealer of his mistake ONLY if it doesn't affect anybody else.
Surveillance unfortunately cannot always catch the m9istakes either because you have 4 or 5 guys watching 60 to 80 table games........you do the math :)
Quote: beachbumbabsPGP is tough because the dealers make a lot of errors setting their hands. (I think that's what boy is talking about from before, but it's my experience as well).
This is difficult too because different casinos have different houseways. I mentioned earlier that I am required by law to point out any mistakes I see in a WA cardroom, and one of my favorite games is PGP. Unfortunately, I don't know the houseway at all cardrooms. If a hand setting looks questionable, all I do is say "It's not this way?" one time, and take the dealer's word for it.
Quote: PaigowdanWhy? Not many mistakes in PGP in general.
You are joking, right? I think that sometimes there are enough dealer errors to turn paigow poker into a +EV game! (Not often, but not rare, either)
Low stakes... but in Mesquite had a dealer that was so bad, she barely knew what to do. She spilt a pair of kings... Until the pit boss noticed, that was a +EV table....
Quote: hwccdealerI usually get corrected on mistakes, and it's fine. Most of my players are pretty honest, and the mistakes I make are usually falling asleep at the wheel, i.e. paying the person next to the guy who hit the hard 8, snatching up a Pair Square when the guy's sitting on two differently-colored Tens, accidentally counting the dealer's two cards as part of the board and calling it a straight. Y'know, things I do right 99% of the time and catch in my own internal quality-control nine times out of ten when I screw up.
I usually try to double-check anything that's close, i.e. if I think a hand might be a push, if there are a lot of aces in a player's hand, if a person reduces their wonky-looking inside bets to table minimum (as my box said yesterday, "There's no pretty way to do that,") but things slip through the cracks. If it's happening constantly, either the dealer needs to practice more or get more sleep.
As for correcting it...well, in my casino, taking money for an incorrect payout and not giving it back constitutes stealing, and that's the state's rule, not ours.
Stealing requires general intent in every state, which is difficult to prove under the circumstances up for discussion. Your statement directly implies stealing is a strict liability crime in your state because you say the act constitutes a crime without the accompanying guilty mind. This is the practical reason why it is generally not illegal.
Quote: SonuvabishStealing requires general intent in every state, which is difficult to prove under the circumstances up for discussion. Your statement directly implies stealing is a strict liability crime in your state because you say the act constitutes a crime without the accompanying guilty mind. This is the practical reason why it is generally not illegal.
If they wanted to drum up volition or intent, they could, i.e. the player was made aware that he needed to return the winnings and actively chose not to. That's how I imagine they would get them. Yes, if someone gets paid on a bet they should have lost, no one says anything, and no one approaches the player, there's no intent. But if security says something and the casino can prove it, that's different.
Quote: hwccdealerIf they wanted to drum up volition or intent, they could, i.e. the player was made aware that he needed to return the winnings and actively chose not to. That's how I imagine they would get them. Yes, if someone gets paid on a bet they should have lost, no one says anything, and no one approaches the player, there's no intent. But if security says something and the casino can prove it, that's different.
Well, even where it is expressly legal, I think it would be rather foolish to refuse to return the money. They can boot you out of the casino, and regardless, they will treat you like a thief if you do not comply. I've been asked to return money before and I never refuse, sometimes putting on a good confusion act, sometimes not caring enough to bother--darn, u caught me, fine. I never ask to see the tape, I know I did it. Now in a state where they have that minority law where I'm committing a crime, maybe I'd ask to see the tape, because I'd be basically shouting "I'm innocent of a crime by the way, good luck proving I'm guilty, I'm proving I'm innocent right now by wasting your time and acting confused about what's going on, and this is all on the record!" In your example, one can make a clear inference of intent. I once heard of a time when someone was asked to return money after they had left, and come back another time...at that point, you just play somewhere else I think.
Anyways, my personal experience went like this... While I was playing at this very small casino, (keep in mind live games in Mexico have been legal for probably 5 years at the most, and the first on in my town opened about 3 months ago, with only 2 blackjack tables and one roulette, so they do keep an eye on us... Once the dealer got called on not collecting when I lost cause they didn't see that as soon as he picked up my bet I placed the next one, and I've seen them pay a push and not be called for it), I got pushed when I should have lost, about two hands later the pit boss gets called to the video room and comes out and tells the dealer he pushed when I should have lost and that he would have to pay for it, either out of the tips or out of his salary. At this point I had only enough left for two minimum bets, so I told him that if I got back to my original bankroll I would tip him the amount he made the mistake with. Two hands later I was left with no money, so, tough luck.
Did I feel guilty, yes, a little bit, didn't know they would make the dealer pay for it, but then again, it wasn't my mistake and I didn't have enough to give it back...
I'm not a 'big' gambler, have played a few hundred hours at BJ tables only. That is enuf time to see all sorts of dealer errors, and I have seen plenty.
I've struggled with what I should say, what I should do, when I see dealer errors.
I think my stance is as follows:
If I'm shorted on a payout, I try to point it out and have the dealer correct the mistake. Ask for help if necessary.
If I'm overpaid on a hand, I try to quietly point it out, have the dealer correct it, and have the game proceed.
I do not get involved in other player's payouts, over or under. I have stated once or twice 'I wasn't watching their hand, I only try to watch mine'. ( sort-of a cop out ).
I avoid, to the extreme, any possibility that there could be any collusion between myself and the dealer. And that has found me in a couple of oddball situations in the past. Weird situations which made me have to re-think my position. I'm good, I think, on my position. No doubt I'll run into something again that causes me to re-think the whole approach. But that is where I am, at least for now..
As an aside, I hate pointing out overpays by the dealer to me. I worry about causing them grief, especially if we are getting along well, and the dealer is running a fairly quick but personable game for all, or at least for most of the players at the table. But I stick to my stance, mostly. If I win you pay me, if I lose you take my bet. If there were no mistakes it would be easier. Nice discussion.
If the dealer is making frequent mistakes, whether in the house's favour or the players', then it is for the player to apply his own moral compass. Personally, I'd tend to 'fess up to the first small overpayment unless I felt I'd been underpaid earlier in the session. Certainly ignore payments to other players ( over and under )
I always consider that each time a player points out a dealer's error to his supervisors then that dealer is getting noticed for a bad appraisal. He would probably prefer to not have such attention brought onto him even/especially if he is costing the house money.
Where I struggle is where dealer error opens up a HUGE opportunity, such as prematurely revealing a card. Does one exploit those times to the max and be conspicuous in doing so?
is tip the dealer. I see other players do this and if the play is ever reviewed it looks like you're bribing the dealer.
Quote: HunterhillOne thing i never do if i receive a mistake in my favor
is tip the dealer. I see other players do this and if the play is ever reviewed it looks like you're bribing the dealer.
I never tip the dealer on the hand but the next hand I will play a tip.
Dealer errors are really not the way I want to win. I enjoy being able to beat the casino fair and square.
Dealer errors, including payout, buy ins/cash outs do occur. It is the casinos responsibility, so I have no problem with how anyone chooses to handle this situation.
For me, there are consequences to consider. I really don't want to be responsible for pointing out errors that can lead to a dealer losing his job. BUT I can't afford to have the dealer take my $400 or $500 max bet on a hand that I should have pushed. No matter what I do, there is a real possibility that playing with a dealer that makes frequent mistakes, ends up drawing extra attention to myself and a large part of my game is minimizing attention drawn to myself.
I have settled on a policy that I am comfortable with as far as both my moral concerns as well as my minimizing attention concerns, but ultimately, if I find myself with a dealer that I feel is error prone, I move on at the first opportunity.
As a side note, I know this is one of those things where 'selective memory' comes in to play, but it sure seems like more dealer errors I have witnessed (concerning myself and other players) go against the player and in favor of the house. lol.
Quote: kewlj
Dealer errors are really not the way I want to win. I enjoy being able to beat the casino fair and square.
Me too. If the dealer is not as good as I am at setting their hands, as just happened to me at the Gold Coast playing Asia Poker, I consider my wins 'fair and square'. If they have dealers who aren't as good as I am at seeing the proper way to use the joker, don't notice flushes, etc... it is not my job nor responsibility to point out better ways to play their cards, just like they would not show me better ways to play my cards after I have set them. There were 3 dealers in a row that were extremely weak, I am estimating I had a $100 an hour advantage playing $25 per hand.
One specific example was when the dealer didn't notice she had a pair of 10's, and split them ridiculously. As the cards are on the table, and the dealer starts to pay off the winners, a kid comes up and asks out loud, "Why doesn't the dealer play the 10's?" Dagger stares from the other players, and the dealer totally ignores him and just pays out the entire table.
Interestingly, that kid barely knew how to play, and set his hands so poorly he had no chance! After his first two bad mistakes, the other players at the table told him his mistakes, and he still didn't ask for help. He lost quickly, and the casino staff did nothing to stop him. My point is the casino is happy to take advantage of bad play, so I am happy to take advantage of their bad play.
Quote: SOOPOOThe casino is happy to take advantage of bad play, so I am happy to take advantage of their bad play.
This.
I love break-in dealers. Where I used to play a lot, there were always a few that screwed up the surrender payout at very busy tables .... she'd take my checks and give me back an identical amount (incredulous). It was like a stay of execution.
mel
