Free Bet Blackjack
The nice thing about Freebet is you rarely have to put more of your own money up and so don't have to suffer having put up eight bets (splits and doubles) to see none of them have a point and the dealer scoop the lot. It has the opposite feature that occasionally you'll have made a crazy double (technically correct) like 9 vs A and actually win, or have done lots of splits/doubles only costing you one initial wager but standing to win much more. It's this N to 1 payout that I think weekend players enjoy, and it's easier for the dealer and players don't have to put-up more physical money.Quote: waznboi03...the doubles/splits make or break me.
Slight warning for martingale/progression - obviously the above comes at a cost and it's that you're less likely to win (as opposed to lose). Statistically you make the free doubles if the chances of winning exceed 33%, i.e. always, but your odds of winning are quite often less than 50% - but you're being paid 2 to 1 if you do win.
Quote: Paigowdan
1. At least one casino (Viejas) now allows Free Doubles on soft 19, 20, and 21, considering them to also be hard 9, 10, and 11, which they are. Obviously, you'd never wreck a 21, but free-doubling on soft-20 against 3-6, and free-doubling on soft-19 against everything except a dealer's 8 is the way to go.
Does this mean that if I free double on soft 19 I am declaring the hand a 9? In other words, if I receive a 2 (spades) after free doubling, my hand is an 11, not 21?
Quote: bigfoot66Does this mean that if I free double on soft 19 I am declaring the hand a 9? In other words, if I receive a 2 (spades) after free doubling, my hand is an 11, not 21?
I don't think so; I think they are basically allowing free doubles on soft 19-21, but I could be wrong. I'm pretty sure Stephen's page is assuming soft 19-21 here. The difference it would make is fairly small though.
Quote: bigfoot66Does this mean that if I free double on soft 19 I am declaring the hand a 9? In other words, if I receive a 2 (spades) after free doubling, my hand is an 11, not 21?
No. Your hand is fully a 21, and of course, a probable winner on the double down.
The rule change does not assign you or anyone the "worse" value on a soft hand. A soft final hand is always considered at its best possible value. The rule change simply extends the ability to Free Double on soft hands of 19, 20, and 21, if you wish.
Normal Blackjack warning if you're in Belgium and double - yes you now have an 11!Quote: bigfoot66...double on soft 19 I am declaring the hand a 9?...if I receive a 2...my hand is an 11...
btw Freebet has just gone back into Southampton (UK) - is this part of a wider install across the group? Interestingly the table didn't have the 22 bet but the Top3 and 21+2 which are locally quite popular. In Reading nearly half the people seemed to play the 22 when I was there recently: I was at the adjacent UTH table and it seemed the frequency of 22's determined their profit rather than their Blackjack luck.
btw The side bet pays 10/1 for any 22, 17/1 for coloured 22 and 35/1 for suited 22 (presumably these are because they are roulette odds). Has anyone the house edge (dealer stands soft 17) as I got it at about 3.75% for 6 decks.
Quote: charliepatrickNormal Blackjack warning if you're in Belgium and double - yes you now have an 11!
btw Freebet has just gone back into Southampton (UK) - is this part of a wider install across the group? Interestingly the table didn't have the 22 bet but the Top3 and 21+2 which are locally quite popular. In Reading nearly half the people seemed to play the 22 when I was there recently: I was at the adjacent UTH table and it seemed the frequency of 22's determined their profit rather than their Blackjack luck.
btw The side bet pays 10/1 for any 22, 17/1 for coloured 22 and 35/1 for suited 22 (presumably these are because they are roulette odds). Has anyone the house edge (dealer stands soft 17) as I got it at about 3.75% for 6 decks.
Hi Charlie, when you say it's gone back into Southampton does that mean it was there before and taken out before being installed again?
It's also just gone into Leicester but I'd like to see more penetration within the Grosvenor group now that they have acquired the Gala casinos, particularly as the game is getting very good feedback from its current installations.
Nice to hear that the 'Push 22' side-bet is getting some reasonable play at Reading. Working with SHFL, we have developed a progressive 'Push 22' side-bet for the US market which I'd like to see installed in the near future. You were correct with the UK version on both counts - I created the pay-outs to coincide with roulette odds and the house edge is 3.76%.
My memory isn't what it used to be! I suspect they had all the other variants (Switch, Burn20) so might not have got FreeBet before. Thanks for confirming my numbers - it's the first time I've worked out something based on non-infinite decks for Blackjack, as usually I'm after a strategy rather than the HE and infinite is easier and shows most decisions correctly (except for close ones).Quote: SwitchHi Charlie, when you say it's gone back into Southampton does that mean it was there before and taken out before being installed again?
btw The last time I looked the wizard page (https://wizardofodds.com/games/free-bet-blackjack/) it only had the US strategy for FreeBet, e.g. I hit 14vs 2 and 12 vs 5/6. Also finally got to hit a hard 17 at the weekend.
Cheers
Quote: charliepatrickAlso finally got to hit a hard 17 at the weekend.
Cheers
Hehe, did you get any strange comments made? More importantly, did it pay off ? :-)
I did jokingly say "Hitting Hard 17 - card please" and no-one said anything. Annoyingly I took a five and the next card was the dealer's ten - but that's life, so doesn't worry me. Looking forward to doubling A9 one day.Quote: SwitchHehe, did you get any strange comments made? More importantly, did it pay off ? :-)
I read that they've totally ruined all their BJ games. Everything under $25 is now 6-5, no surrender, no even money. Six deck shoes are now eight deck shoes.
Did they change Free Bet to 6-5 as well?
Quote: ams288Anyone know if the conditions of this game have changed at The Mirage?
I read that they've totally ruined all their BJ games. Everything under $25 is now 6-5, no surrender, no even money. Six deck shoes are now eight deck shoes.
Did they change Free Bet to 6-5 as well?
Not as far as I know - it's still 3/2 but I can confirm over the next few days.
Quote: ams288Anyone know if the conditions of this game have changed at The Mirage?
I read that they've totally ruined all their BJ games. Everything under $25 is now 6-5, no surrender, no even money. Six deck shoes are now eight deck shoes.
Did they change Free Bet to 6-5 as well?
Any recent WOV boots on the ground at the Mirage?
I haven't been there since mid June, but I would be surprised conditions have deteriorated that badly. When I was there they had pretty good H17 shoe games with surrender for $10 min. 6-5 was only on single deck tables. The S17 tables were $25min including a sweet 0.27% HE double deck game. I am sure someone here can confirm.
Edit: Freebet had surrender and was $10 min
Quote: JimRockfordAny recent WOV boots on the ground at the Mirage?
I haven't been there since mid June, but I would be surprised conditions have deteriorated that badly. When I was there they had pretty good H17 shoe games with surrender for $10 min. 6-5 was only on single deck tables. The S17 tables were $25min including a sweet 0.27% HE double deck game. I am sure someone here can confirm.
Edit: Freebet had surrender and was $10 min
I was there Labor Day week and all their shoe/CSM games still had the standard MGM rules. 3-2, surrender, etc.
However, apparently these changes went into effect 9/9/13 according to another message board.
Here is that post:
Quote:I was there from 9/4-9/11. All the dealers mentioned that "new management" were putting in these changes to take effect Monday 9/9. All blackjack under $25/hand became 6:5 (although they had said it would be at every bet level, I saw tables after 9/9 that were $25 and up and still 3:2), there is no surrender, no even money on BJ when dealer shows an ace, and 6 deck shoes went up to 8 deck. Many of the dealers were very unhappy about it and having to learn new payouts, and they weren't shy about vocalizing their complaints to the customers lol.
One change I didn't like is that they got rid of the tables that lit up green and red that tell you if the dealer has a blackjack. They now use the little window to check the cards. They had to order cards with bigger numbers on them so the dealers could more easily see them. They had only received the cards with blue backs and not the red cards so they couldn't yet use their automatic shufflers and had to hand shuffle everything.
I can confirm when I was there that they were using new cards. Previously The Mirage always had cards with smaller numbers (Aria and Bellagio use the same kind), but they had switched to larger numbered cards (like MGM Grand and NYNY use, for example).
Quote: wudgedIs it common that 2-9 cards have the rank printed further away from the corner of the card while 10s are in one corner and Aces are in the other (to prevent the dealer from seeing the actual value and giving a tell) ? Is that only on the larger faced cards?
No it's like that on the smaller faced cards as well.
I have some souvenir decks I bought and the larger and smaller font cards are all positioned similarly.
Quote: JimRockford
Edit: Freebet had surrender and was $10 min
I believe that MGM have removed the 'Surrender' option on Free Bet, including The Mirage.
Quote: JimRockfordI called the Mirage and was told that one pit (pit #5) has changed from 3:2 to 6:5. All other pits remain the same as before so the S17 games still have surrender. I asked if they still had 3:2 games for $10 and was told yes but not many and the minimum will go up when they are busy.
Saved me a phone call, thanks!
I'm not sure why these new rules they've established mean they can't use the automatic BJ sensors anymore and need the dealers to check with the mirrors now.
Anyway, this is a depressing trend. MGM properties BJ conditions are almost getting worse than CET.
Quote: IbeatyouracesMirage does use the electronic sensors.
Yes I know. But the earlier post indicated that they've gotten new cards and stopped using them.
Quote: VenthusOther than Viejas, does anybody of any installations for this in the SoCal region?
Sycuan.
Anyway, played a LOT of switch for the first time. Think it may be my new favorite game. Played at ny ny, and logged many late hours at royale (fun crowd there). Also played some free and like this as well. These new games I think are a lot more fun for the casual visitor.
Lmk if anyone has any questions on what I saw. Great games, both!
Quote: PaigowdanNo. Your hand is fully a 21, and of course, a probable winner on the double down.
The rule change does not assign you or anyone the "worse" value on a soft hand. A soft final hand is always considered at its best possible value. The rule change simply extends the ability to Free Double on soft hands of 19, 20, and 21, if you wish.
In the interests of full disclosure, I believe there are some single-deck games out there that will allow you to double an A8/A9/A10 hand, but then you automatically give up the possibility of the Ace counting as 11 in that hand, because you can only double on 9-10-11. So if you choose to double, you are essentially declaring that hand as a 9, 10, or 11 for better or for worse.
Again, not saying this is the case for this specific Free Bet table as clarified by Dan. But this circumstance does exist on some "restricted double" single deck games.
Quote: ruascottJust back from trip. First time posting here in a long time.
Anyway, played a LOT of switch for the first time. Think it may be my new favorite game. Played at ny ny, and logged many late hours at royale (fun crowd there). Also played some free and like this as well. These new games I think are a lot more fun for the casual visitor.
Lmk if anyone has any questions on what I saw. Great games, both!
Thanks for the feedback ruascott - encouraging that you liked both Switch and Free Bet as they are both very different even though both games use the 'Push 22' rule.
Did you play Free Bet at NYNY?
Quote: SwitchThanks for the feedback ruascott - encouraging that you liked both Switch and Free Bet as they are both very different even though both games use the 'Push 22' rule.
Did you play Free Bet at NYNY?
Yes and at casino royale I believe.
Are either games offered anywhere in Indiana?
Quote: ruascottYes and at casino royale I believe.
Are either games offered anywhere in Indiana?
I'm not sure about Free Bet but 'Switch' is in Harrah's Hammond. I'll see if I can find out if it's placed anywhere else in Indiana.
Quote: SwitchI'm not sure about Free Bet but 'Switch' is in Harrah's Hammond. I'll see if I can find out if it's placed anywhere else in Indiana.
Thanks. I play at the Ohio river casinos, any down south would be great.
Looking at the Wizard's site:
Rule Variants
Following are the effects of some possible rule variants. The effects are the change in the player's expected return.
•Player may do free split on pair of tens: +0.24%.
•Dealer stands on soft 17: +0.22%.
•Eight decks: +0.02%.
•No re-splitting aces: -0.08%.
•No surrender allowed: -0.21%.
•No doubling on three or more cards: -0.60%.
Mike's analysis shows the effect on the player's return so not allowing the doubling on more than 2 cards will subtract 0.6% from the player's expected return.
Quote: tringlomaneUnfortunately looking through this thread and the woo page, I'm confused on what the house edge at the mgm properties actually are. It looks like what Jim Rockford wrote earlier, 1.15%. Is that correct? Higher than I first realized. :(
Not far off. Basically, the main versions out there all only allow 2-card Free Doubles. The differences, with house edge in brackets are:-
Allow Surrender and re-split Aces (0.81%)
Allow re-split Aces but no Surrender i.e. MGM Properties (1.02%)
No Surrender or re-split of Aces (1.10%)
Hope this helps.
Quote: SwitchNot far off. Basically, the main versions out there all only allow 2-card Free Doubles. The differences, with house edge in brackets are:-
Allow Surrender and re-split Aces (0.81%)
Allow re-split Aces but no Surrender i.e. MGM Properties (1.02%)
No Surrender or re-split of Aces (1.10%)
Hope this helps.
So no rooms offer the free double on any cards anymore? Also, I did a blackjack survey this week and noticed many more installs than this time last year. Four alone at Casino Royale, although it was 6-5. I believe that was only place I saw 6-5 Free Bet but I would have to go back in my notes.
Golden Nugget (2 tables)
The D
Venetian (2 tables)
Palazzo (2 tables)
Casino Royale (4 tables)
Mirage
New York New York
Arizona Charlie’s Boulder
Eureka (Mesquite)
Aria
Quote: ams288Does anyone know which casinos (if any) allow surrender on Free Bet in Vegas?
I'm not certain but Venetian, Palazzo and Golden Nugget would be your best bet. The others definitely don't.
Quote: PokeraddictAfter putting my blackjack info into a spreadsheet i notice that Spanish21 is no longer available anywhere that I saw. Is it safe to say that Free Bet replaced a lot of the S21 installs?
Out of the strip casinos, S21 was only at the Venetian/Palazzo. Is it gone now? Cosmopolitan apparently also had a table but I could never find it when I looked.
Quote: ams288Out of the strip casinos, S21 was only at the Venetian/Palazzo. Is it gone now? Cosmopolitan apparently also had a table but I could never find it when I looked.
I did not see it at any of the three. Palazzo has two Free Bets that were not there last year so I assume that took its place. Venetian has a Player's Choice BJ so maybe that replaced it there.
Ayway, it was great fun. And I didn't really know the proper strategy from the available cards. But the right decisions are much easier than in Blackjack Switch. I think you have really hit a home run with this one.
So after ten hours of play, NOW I decided to get educated about the game! lol
My question is about using a Martingale on Free Bet. It was mentioned earlier in the thread, but no one came back with the definitive math of it. It just seems like it would be susceptible to it. Getting one of those multiple splits with doubles with the "big" bet out there makes me exciting thinking about it.
What do you think?
(i) You win less often as (a) if the dealer busts with 22 it's a push rather than a win (b) you are doubling rather than hitting merely because the bet pays 2/1 (an obvious example is 9 vs A - your chances are less but if you do win you get twice your money back).
(ii) You rarely have to risk more than your original stake and hence lose less from unlucky doubles/splits, also good because usually you aren't needing an extra stake available if your bet size has increased significantly.
(iii) You have more x2 payouts because you split and double more often.
Thus you rarely need to worry about needing an extra stake so can push the maximum stake higher, however your actually chances of winning x1 are less (and x2 etc. more).
Without going into the pros and cons of the system itself, one problem with the Martingale system in Blackjack is the probability of winning vs losing is not 50/50 (or even say about 48/52 as it is in Roulette). It's even more distorted in FreeBet, so you've a higher chance of crashing out.
Quote: BigTipMy question is about using a Martingale on Free Bet. It was mentioned earlier in the thread, but no one came back with the definitive math of it. It just seems like it would be susceptible to it. Getting one of those multiple splits with doubles with the "big" bet out there makes me exciting thinking about it.
What do you think?
Every bet you make at Free Bet is -EV. This game is no more susceptible to a martingale than any other -EV casino game. There is no way to make -1 and -1 add up to a number greater than 0.
Quote: BigTipJust got back from playing four hours at Golden Gate ... ... ...
I was at The Golden Gate yesterday around 7pm, stayed for about an hour before heading to The Golden Nugget.
There will be quite a few more Vegas properties available to play this game in by the end of March.
The only two remotely near me are at the far end of the casino region and would require over an hour of driving through mountain roads to get there.
