JimRockford
JimRockford
Joined: Apr 17, 2012
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February 12th, 2013 at 1:35:23 PM permalink
I have seen articles on the history of blackjack and its origins but I have seen very little on the recent history of the rules. What were the typical blackjack rules in Vegas when the city began to take off in the Ď50s? How did they evolve into the rule set that we know today? Was there a period of abrupt change, maybe as a response to Thorpís book?
"Truth is ever to be found in the simplicity, and not in the multiplicity and confusion of things." - Isaac Newton
GH
GH
Joined: Oct 21, 2012
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February 12th, 2013 at 2:24:22 PM permalink
Read "The Big Book of Blackjack," by Arnold Snyder. Some of the interesting "old rules" were:
* No exposed dealer card.
* Dealer could force you to double down against HIS hand.

Napoleon was very fond of these rules :)
JimRockford
JimRockford
Joined: Apr 17, 2012
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February 12th, 2013 at 2:48:24 PM permalink
Quote: GH

Read "The Big Book of Blackjack," by Arnold Snyder. Some of the interesting "old rules" were:
* No exposed dealer card.
* Dealer could force you to double down against HIS hand.

Napoleon was very fond of these rules :)



Thanks, I will check out the book. I am more interested in the games Sinatra would have played than Napoleon.
"Truth is ever to be found in the simplicity, and not in the multiplicity and confusion of things." - Isaac Newton
Buzzard
Buzzard
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February 12th, 2013 at 2:57:00 PM permalink
Beth Davenport: I hope Angel won't say anything that's gonna get Rocky into trouble.
Jim Rockford: Angel has been in stir, he knows better than to talk without his lawyer present and you're his lawyer. Angel knows better - he'll keep his mouth shut.
[Scene changes to Angel being interrogated by Federal Agents]
Evelyn 'Angel' Martin: [Excitedly] See, you want to be talking to Jim Rockford and his father Joseph. Let me spell that for ya: Rockford, R-O-C-K-F-O-R-D.
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
JimRockford
JimRockford
Joined: Apr 17, 2012
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February 12th, 2013 at 8:28:27 PM permalink
Quote: GH

Read "The Big Book of Blackjack," by Arnold Snyder. Some of the interesting "old rules" were:
* No exposed dealer card.
* Dealer could force you to double down against HIS hand.

Napoleon was very fond of these rules :)



I looked at the Snyder book and it has a very interesting history of early versions of 21. However it does not contain the information I am curious about. What were the rules in the '50s, '60s and '70s. When did the surrender rules start? It seems an unlikely rule. It offers players a little better return, but few are inclined to use it correctly. Can anyone enlighten me about our game's more recent past?
"Truth is ever to be found in the simplicity, and not in the multiplicity and confusion of things." - Isaac Newton
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
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February 13th, 2013 at 6:35:49 AM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
eljefe3126
eljefe3126
Joined: Aug 1, 2020
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August 1st, 2020 at 2:43:24 PM permalink
I know this is a very old thread, but this is something that interests me as well. There's a little bit of this in Thorp's book, Beat the Dealer, but I'm not sure 100% how to put that into the house edge calculator on the Wizard of Odds site.

Basically, if the Rat Pack settled down for a few hands of blackjack (or "twenty one") back in the day, what would the rules be, and would they vary from casino to casino?
billryan
billryan
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August 1st, 2020 at 7:09:39 PM permalink
Before 'Beat the Dealer", the standard game was single deck, often dealt to the last card. Unlimited splits and split aces and a ten were a 3/2 BJ. I think some casinos limited doubling to 10/11, but not in Las Vegas.
eljefe3126
eljefe3126
Joined: Aug 1, 2020
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August 2nd, 2020 at 12:00:56 AM permalink
What were the rules on doubling down and surrender?
MJGolf
MJGolf
Joined: Aug 17, 2016
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Thanks for this post from:
smoothgrheljefe3126
August 12th, 2020 at 7:23:28 PM permalink
There used to be true regional rules. Strip v Downtown. Reno/Tahoe were different from Vegas. In Reno/Tahoe almost all single deck; double 10/11 only or 9/10/11. Hit 17. Rarely did you see DD or Shoes.

Downtown rules were single deck mostly. Main difference from what they called "Strip Rules" was they were H 17 v. Strip was always S 17. There were single decks and multi decks on the Strip but mainly single deck. Also you didn't see 6 deck or 8 deck until later. Believe it or not, there were 4 deck shoes. You could actually in old days find games on the strip that were positive EV because they allowed S 17, single deck, DAS, and resplit aces. Places varied on resplitting aces. But resplitting any other pairs wasn't an issue. Some didn't allow DAS on single deck. Most did allow DAS. No one had that 6-5 BS on Blackjack. This was before all the math analysis of today.

Surrender was rare but Caesars stood out as always offering it. They actually had a little token they gave you to put on top of your bet when you surrendered. Many then still didn't take advantage of it and you were ridiculed sometimes for being "chicken" by other players because you were giving up half your bet without "fighting".

There weren't side bets until later either. It was a BIG deal when over under 13 came out as a side bet.

Penetration was different also. The main concern was not running out of cards during a round. Sometimes it happened during single deck and they they just shuffled the remaining cards and finished the round/play. Then reshuffled the deck again for the next round. Also dealers would look at their remaining cards and guestimate sometimes as to whether or not they had enough cards to finish. Penetration on shoes was deeper than anyone who plays today has EVER seen.

Comps were a dream during those days. You could get RFB in a lot of places (other than expensive joints like Caesars) VERY easily. Green chip betting got it at places like The Dunes, Desert Inn, Tropicana that are no longer here. Shoot the Riviera would offer us cheap junkets to come and play including airfare for this action.

It would sure be nice to have those days back again!!! LOL

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