aahigh
aahigh
Joined: Dec 10, 2010
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December 10th, 2010 at 5:15:53 PM permalink
I have played quite a lot of craps. Rolling the same pair of numbers back-to-back is something I notice and something I occasionally try for. I have done hard 10's three times in a row twice .. I even asked Ron if he'd give me a dollar for the third ten, and he said okay and did, and I have done aces four times in a row on one occasion (wasn't trying or expecting the 3rd or 4th pair of aces though). I do typically set dice and I try to hit the same thing repetitively. I usually set boxcars and throw with an ice tong throw. I don't claim anything other than what is factual, and I have not made any big money doing this. The odds of hitting any specific pair four times in a row is 1 in 16 million (1679616). The odds of hitting any pair three times in a row is still one in a quarter million (279936). The odds of hitting any pair three times in a row is still something that only happens 1 out of 7776 rolls.

A lot of people question whether dice control is possible. If you can roll the same pair (any pair) 5 times in a row - just one more time in a row than I have done .. and that's your goal is to roll the same pair that many times in a row (for example I didn't intend to do it, just noticed when I did), I'd say you're ready to begin to parley and pressure the house towards it's maximum allowed bets.

That is a lot shorter book on how to beat craps than any I have heard of. And no charge.

I have been playing craps now for about 8 months (since I moved to Vegas in April) and I am well known at the Silverton. If anybody from the forum here wants to meet up and talk and/or practice dice control, send me a message as I'd be interested to play and have a good time. The folks at Silverton have been under pressure at least 2 or 3 times from my throwing, but I typically only bet $5 pass lines, and just enjoy seeing the staff and other customers react when the dust bunnies appear from behind the chips (something I have caused to happen multiple times). I didn't think they took any notice of who I was until I was telling Patrick about the times I have helped others win (specifically mentioning the chips disappearing and dust appearing where they were before, and he said "oh yeah .. we know."

As far as parlaying the hard 8 bet, the chance of hitting any one is 1 in 11, and it pays 10 for 1, so it's about a 10% house edge. So you're looking at a house cut of $0.10 on the first bet, $1.00 on the second bet, and $10.00 on the third bet, totally about $11.10 of house edge on a $1000 win. You lose that sequence of parlet bets one out of 1100 times or so. That's the rough math for a 10 to 1 payout, I think.

It is interesting that when you win, their take on the payout is only 1% instead of 10%... So, of course, the trick is not losing. They get the other 9% house advantage when you lose. :-)

Here's to winning!

--
- Aaron Hightower
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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December 10th, 2010 at 6:37:39 PM permalink
Aaron- I am of the opinion that dice control does not exist to any meaningful degree in real casino playing conditions, that is, the dice hitting the back wall. What level of dice control do you claim to have? Can you give me a specific example, such as, 'I can roll a hard 8 1 in 30 times instead of 1 in 36' , or 'I can lower my seven's to 1 in 7 instead of 1 in 6'. I would love to watch you play, but am not a local. Thanks.
Asswhoopermcdaddy
Asswhoopermcdaddy
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
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December 10th, 2010 at 8:10:53 PM permalink
SOOPOO congrats on another big win! What's your secret? Surely not dice control!!! Out of curiosity, how are you doing for the year win/loss on soley craps.
aahigh
aahigh
Joined: Dec 10, 2010
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December 10th, 2010 at 8:37:23 PM permalink
No I don't really claim anything in particular with regards to being able to control the dice.

I have played long enough to see very unusual things happen that are quite remarkable, however, that's mostly the result of just playing a lot.

But what I really wanted to point out is that it's not complicated to know if you are having an effect on the dice or not if you set specific goals and try to achieve them.

I do generally do better when I take the time to set the dice at hitting pairs. However, I don't try to capitalize on hitting more pairs. I have made lots of money for other players who play hard ways.

So my basic MO is to set the dice and watch other people win when I hit hard ways or horn bets (I never bet horn bets, but when I rolled those 3 aces in a row, the guy next to me made a good amount .. I'm sure he lost it just as quickly.)

Still, if anybody wants to bet my rolls, I prefer to do it that way as I'm not trying to make a lot of money, just interested in learning to roll at this point.

I generally make minimum bets and try to stay at the table as long as possible.

If I put more money on the table, it's on the odds and the 6 and 8 which is why I typically go to the Silverton or to Casino Royal.
aahigh
aahigh
Joined: Dec 10, 2010
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December 11th, 2010 at 4:15:36 AM permalink
So I went tonight to the Silverton. I tried and hit more hardways and pairs than ever. The whole table won, and I made quite a scene. I rolled for about 20 minutes. I hit a single seven during one comeout roll (the come and odds betters killed as did the hard way betters). I did not hit ANY craps on the comeout. I hit 5 hard sixes, 4 hard 8's, 3 hard 4's, and 3 hard 10's. I also hit box cars three times, aces twice (none on comeout however). I also rolled 3 easy sixes, 2 easy 8's, 3 5's and 3 9's. No easy 4's or easy 10's. I hit every pair there was and more than half of my rolls were pairs, and more than 1/3 of my rolls were hard ways. I made an easy 8 point, and maybe one other point, so you had to be betting the come or hard ways to really do well from my roll. I was betting neither, but I did win a 5 dollar pass line on an easy 8 with 5 dollar odds, and one other point.

This is all from memory, there were plenty of witnesses.

I did all of this on my first roll and in a very deliberate and verbal way.

If anyone doubts what happened, I invite you to go and ask. Several of the dealers witnessed it and I made it very vocalized that I was trying to hit hard ways and also that I was not betting the hard ways myself. Lots of people made money, but I didn't make much (80 profit never going down more than $8 into my bankroll).

The staff witnessed if you care to ask were Robert (the new guy) was the pit boss at the time, and Anatola was the box man. Patrick was at the opposite end of the table, and Ron (the blond) was nearest me. They all know me pretty well and how I play.

Please don't misunderstand that I claim I can do this all the time, but if you witness it, you would maybe understand why I am posting here and inviting people to come.

I've logged several hundred hours playing craps at the Silverton in the last 8 months or so, so it could be explained by the idea that these things happen every now and then.

--
- Aaron Hightower
aahigh
aahigh
Joined: Dec 10, 2010
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December 11th, 2010 at 4:31:35 AM permalink
My P/L history adds up to a loss of between $1000 and $2000. This has been with an average amount of probably $15 on the table at a time, and logging lots and lots and lots of hours.

My biggest bets on craps ever were not much over $200 per event. I am super small time in terms of how much I wager.
MrV
MrV
Joined: Feb 13, 2010
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December 11th, 2010 at 11:02:05 PM permalink
OK, so you set the dice.

So do about half of the players at craps tables these days.

Dice setting, standing alone, is completely worthless.

You have to be able to repeatedly roll dem bones in such a manner that they stay on axis, land squarely and softly, stay on axis, and above all, make sure they don't hit the pyramids.

Nobody can do this to the point it is quantifiable and measurable.

Anything else is just luck.

You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?'
"What, me worry?"
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
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December 12th, 2010 at 2:03:40 AM permalink
Quote: MrV

You have to be able to repeatedly roll dem bones in such a manner that they stay on axis, land squarely and softly, stay on axis, and above all, make sure they don't hit the pyramids.

Don't hit the pyramids???
If you repeatedly fail to hit that back wall they is gonna do more than give you dirty looks and make comments about suspicious rolls.
Or are you talking about hitting the back wall but not hitting the pyramids on it, only the space between them. I don't think anyone can do that!

I like craps.
Its fast paced and it gets away from me mentally sometimes but I do enjoy it.
The trouble is, its that Lady Variance, not Lady Axis that is at play.
DeMango
DeMango
Joined: Feb 2, 2010
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December 12th, 2010 at 3:13:06 AM permalink
If I had the ability to roll pairs anywhere close to 50% on my rolls, I would STFU and find empty tables and then empty some coffers. By the way pyramids do not effect the dice half as much as some posters here HOPE they do. (Yea I know I should STFU about that!)

MrV: Good to see you on a more intelligent blog, keep up the good work!
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
Joined: Nov 9, 2009
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December 12th, 2010 at 4:54:10 AM permalink
I think anybody who can defeat HE of at least 9% on hardways by using dice control is, well, making quite a claim.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder

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