All betting systems are worthless?

Past results point to whats going on and what might
continue going on. They suggest things, they tell a
story. The don't influence the the next outcome, but
they can influence where you place your next bet if
you know how to interpret them correctly.

Tell me then, what are the odds then that past results have an effect on what might continue going on? (two to one, three to one, ten to one?)

I'm going to go out and grab a lottery ticket and bet on the most frequent numbers based on the last year. Hah! I'm going to be a multi-millionaire! Just wait and see.

You do realize that the first half of your third sentence directly is in contradiction with the second half?

Isn't JJJ's ban over? Perhaps he can explain it more eloquently.

Quote: boymimbo

Tell me then, what are the odds then that past results have an effect on what might continue going on?

They have zero effect on the next spin. The wheel starts
from scratch on every spin, it has no knowledge of
what the last spin was. Past results can only effect you
and your decision making for the next bet. You see a
dozen thats sleeping, you know from experience that dozens
often do that, so you use this knowledge to your
advantage. Past spins can point to future spins, they can't
predict them. Its up to you to correctly guess what they're
point at.

Oh, so you're saying that if I guess correctly, I will be a winner...

Thanks for pointing out the obvious...

Let's recap:

First, you assure that there are professional roulette players because they use trends to make them winners.\
Then you argued that numbers "sleep", so by betting the non-sleeping numbers, you will win
Then you acknowledged that these trends don't affect the outcome, but if you pick a trend, and guess that it is correct, and it is correct, you will win.

Anyone can observe anything, and have it affect their decision...That's called inspiration.

In the end, you're either clinically insane, or a super troll. Either way, it has reached to the point where I feel you could argue against yourself, because you're taking both sides...

Quote: Triplell

First, you assure that there are professional roulette players because they use trends

Nope, I never said any such thing. Go and look.

Quote: Triplell

Then you argued that numbers "sleep", so by betting the non-sleeping numbers, you will win

Dozens sleep, thats clusters of numbers, and if you bet
the non sleeping dozens at the right time you might
win, not 'will' win.

Quote: Triplell

In the end, you're either clinically insane, or a super troll. Either way, it has reached to the point where I feel you could argue against yourself, because you're taking both sides...

Just because you don't understand something, that
doesn't make the other person insane or a troll.
Please point out how I'm taking both sides, both
sides of what, exactly.

Quote: EvenBob

Just because you don't understand something, that
doesn't make the other person insane or a troll.
Please point out how I'm taking both sides, both
sides of what, exactly.

Correct, Bob, you are likely not insane. But there have been so many of your 'sleeping dozen' comments that make no sense at all to anyone with even the slightest understanding of the game of roulette and the inherent odds involved, that it is driving the rest of us insane!! You seem well meaning, and likely actually believe what you write. I think you would agree that this site contains a great many very bright people, many who have devoted their lives to analyzing and understanding the games of chance offered by casinos. What conclusion can you make from the fact that absolutely no one has come to join you on the 'sleeping dozen' concept? Math Extremist, for example, makes a living analyzing games far more complex than roulette. The Wiz does the same.
Every time I read one of your or Ken's posts, I just want one of you to say "Play the non sleeping dozens, because the sleepers are sleeping for a reason... the slots are bouncier... the dealer rolls to avoid them... slots are not identical in size... the wheel is tilted..." If you just say there is a bias, then we can have an intelligent discussion on those merits.... Just using the phrase 'sleeping dozen' drives ME insane....
As far as the troll comment, would he be considered a troll if all his posts make absolutely no sense, but he believes them to be true?

Quote: SOOPOO

Correct, Bob, you are likely not insane. But there have been so many of your 'sleeping dozen' comments that make no sense

What part makes no sense? Give examples. You guys love to
to talk around things and make accusations without giving
examples. Dozens go inactive, who can argue with that.
Numbers disappear for hundreds of spins sometimes, a fact.
Past results have no influence on the wheel, fact.

Past weather has no influence on today's weather. Weather
is random, it changes constantly. Yet a trained person can
study past weather and make an accurate guess at what
today's weather will be and be right more often than wrong.
Don't they know thats impossible, last years weather cannot
influence today's weather, yet the Farmers Almanac is very
accurate in reading the past to predict the future.

EvenBob,

why do you say that if you are ahead , eventually the house edge will turn on you and lose. Would't this be somehow of a gambling fallacy??

PS: and yes, youre kinda right with the weather, its called adaptation. If somebody says its impossible they are against the evolutionary model.

Past weather absolutely has a great deal of influence on today's weather. In the United States, generally, weather flows from southwest from northeast. If it's windy yesterday in Chicago and windy today in Niagara Falls, there's a very high probability that it will be windy tomorrow in Boston. I can tell you with great certainly that after a great deal of wind, it will be colder. That's because high winds more than usually indicate a cold front is passing through and the air behind the wind is usually much colder. That's because of the fact that wind flows from areas of high pressure to areas of cold pressure and that a high pressure system brings in air flowing clockwise in the northern hemisphere which is initially flowing from the north and is therefore cold.

The farmer's almanac is not accurate, at all. That's been proven.

You cannot at all say the same thing about roulette. Just because a number disappears for hundreds of spins doesn't mean that it has anything more or less than a 1/38 chance of appearing on the next spin.

Quote: boymimbo

Past weather absolutely has a great deal of influence on today's weather. In the United States, generally, weather flows from southwest from northeast. If it's windy yesterday in Chicago and windy today in Niagara Falls, there's a very high probability that it will be windy tomorrow in Boston..

So you follow the trends in weather, by looking at what
happened in the past and you make a guess about what might
be happening tomorrow. Or you look at the past trends
for the last 5 years and make a guess about a whole upcoming
season. Even though the past weather is only statistics and
can have no influence on what really happens in the atmosphere.

I don't see the big difference between that and roulette. Why
is one OK and the other isn't. I know from past experience
that it snows in the winter, so I use that info. I know from past
experience that parts of the wheel lie dormant frequently, so I
use that info. One is OK and other makes you sound insane,
thats your stance.

Quote: boymimbo

Just because a number disappears for hundreds of spins doesn't mean that it has anything more or less than a 1/38 chance of appearing on the next spin.

The fact that is has an equal chance of appearing is what
makes the past spins important. If they blocked of some
of the pockets on every spin so it was different every
time, if it was 1/35 this time and 1/37 next time and
1/33 the time after that, the past spins would be meaningless.
But because its 1/38 every single time, that makes the
past results reliable.

This is absolutely and inherently wrong.

The history of spins is just statistics at work. Odds are averages. Trends are just meaningless observations and in a random game of roulette, mean nothing. It's like looking at lottery numbers, at dice throws, at the next card in an infinite shoe - past results mean absolutely nothing. The spins of roulette are well explained through the discipline of statistics, just as much as the prediction of weather are very well explained through the discipline of meteorology.

By the way, it's less windy now and colder in Niagara Falls, as predicted. I didn't need to look at the Weather Network for my forecast. It's too bad roulette is nothing like weather -- if it was, I'd be a very, very rich man. Of course, having a diploma in Meteorology helps.

What is the cause of these sleeping numbers? If it is anything other than random, then you might be correct...

Quote: Triplell

What is the cause of these sleeping numbers? If it is anything other than random, then you might be correct...

Simple answer.
The reason numbers are sleeping is because before you got to the Roulette table they were "Hot".
After being Hot for many spins, numbers have to sleep.

Now the math will tell us how long they will sleep.

South Park is on. All stop and watch!

Quote: PopCan

Sleeping dozen?!?

What on earth would cause a particular dozen to "sleep"?

Does the ball magically avoid landing in a particular pocket only to land in the pocket a maximum of 2 pockets away? If (and this is a giant if) the wheel was horribly biased AND the dealer trained for years for precise spins AND the dealer initiated the spin at the same point every time AND he only initiated a spin when the rotor was at the same point and speed each time, I could possibly acknowledge a sector/section hitting more or less often. How can you possibly justify hitting a given dozen more or less than the other?

Here are a few pics I found showing the dozens and columns.
Looks like work from Roulette Xtreme.

I can see why some sections and columns can sleep for a few spins at a time or maybe longer.

How about that spacing on the 2nd Dozen
What's up with Column B and C?

Quote: 7craps

I can see why some sections and columns can sleep for a few spins at a time or maybe longer.

How the pockets are numbered has nothing to do with
the outcomes. Random is random.