slackyhacky
slackyhacky
Joined: Jan 18, 2012
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February 29th, 2012 at 12:55:43 PM permalink
I think someone needs to define "worthless" for me. Why is that the subtitle of this forum?

Even the Wizard, when and if (I assume he plays) he sits down to play blackjack - is playing a system . His website encourages you play the betting system of using basic strategy.

In fact, if you don't gamble, you are using the "No Betting" strategy. That doesn't seem worthless to me.

Plus, mustangsally in another thread astutely points out that certain systems increase the standard deviation of your losses/wins and swings of bank roll- that may have value as well.

I've made this point before, it just seems to be a strange statement.
EvenBob
EvenBob
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February 29th, 2012 at 12:57:53 PM permalink
Quote: slackyhacky


In fact, if you don't gamble, you are using the "No Betting" strategy. .



Thats a bit of a stretch. I don't scuba dive, am
I using a strategy there to?
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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February 29th, 2012 at 1:02:56 PM permalink
Quote: slackyhacky

I think someone needs to define "worthless" for me.

Your problem is you got hung up on the fact that they have been called "worthless" and ignored exactly what it was that was getting that description.

There is a difference between a betting system and strategy.

Betting systems are worthless.

Strategies are priceless.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
Triplell
Triplell
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Thanks for this post from:
slackyhacky
February 29th, 2012 at 1:06:55 PM permalink
Betting systems simply don't change the house edge of the game. Many people often claim that they have a system which allows them to beat the casino with xx% success.

You can play a "system" all you want. It doesn't harm you nor does it give you an advantage.

Best system...when you are going to win, bet your bankroll. When you are going to lose, bet the minimum(or not at all)....

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Your problem is you got hung up on the fact that they have been called "worthless" and ignored exactly what it was that was getting that description.

There is a difference between a betting system and strategy.

Betting systems are worthless.

Strategies are priceless.



I hate when people take a statement, change one of the terms, and then stick to the guns that this new phrase is what makes all the difference...It's all semantics...be smart enough to understand what the OP is referring to...

(an example is in another thread, the difference between "systems" and "methods"...)
slackyhacky
slackyhacky
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February 29th, 2012 at 1:17:05 PM permalink
Quote: Triplell

Betting systems simply don't change the house edge of the game. Many people often claim that they have a system which allows them to beat the casino with xx% success.

You can play a "system" all you want. It doesn't harm you nor does it give you an advantage.

Best system...when you are going to win, bet your bankroll. When you are going to lose, bet the minimum(or not at all)....



I hate when people take a statement, change one of the terms, and then stick to the guns that this new phrase is what makes all the difference...It's all semantics...be smart enough to understand what the OP is referring to...

(an example is in another thread, the difference between "systems" and "methods"...)



Uh...

Betting a strategy is using a betting system. That is my point. I'm not changing a term. Betting systems - a large umbrella term. betting strategy - a system under the umbrella of all systems.

I'm not smart enough to know what the OP is referring to. That is the point of the post.

Using a system is NOT synonomous with thinking you can beat the house.

And systems do change the house advantage. A bad systems gives the house a larger advantage. A better system (like playing basic strategy) minimizes the house advantage. They are not all worthless, right? So again, what is the point of the heading?
slackyhacky
slackyhacky
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February 29th, 2012 at 1:20:47 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

Your problem is you got hung up on the fact that they have been called "worthless" and ignored exactly what it was that was getting that description.

There is a difference between a betting system and strategy.

Betting systems are worthless.

Strategies are priceless.



Define "betting system" for me. Perhaps that is my hang up.
slackyhacky
slackyhacky
Joined: Jan 18, 2012
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February 29th, 2012 at 1:25:27 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Thats a bit of a stretch. I don't scuba dive, am
I using a strategy there to?



First off, you should. It is pretty amazing really.

Second, I don't get the statement. Not scuba diving is a strategy of something...it depends on what you are taking about. Not scuba diving could be your strategy to avoid sharks, or to stay dry, or to avoid breathing compressed air. Again, it depends on the context.

In this context, a betting system - is a way someone bets, and depending on what happens in the game, makes decissions on how they change or make future bets (ie...hit on a 12?).
WongBo
WongBo
Joined: Feb 3, 2012
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February 29th, 2012 at 1:29:15 PM permalink
What is this?
Spawn of The Thread That Wouldn't Die....
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief. - Proverb.
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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February 29th, 2012 at 1:32:15 PM permalink
Quote: slackyhacky

Define "betting system" for me. Perhaps that is my hang up.

A betting system dictates what your next bet should be based upon prior results. The most famous is the Martingale system where you keep doubling after each loss.

A strategy dictates how you should play the hand based upon the information about the cards you have and any other cards you have seen.

Note that certain strategies, most notably card counting, also affect the next bet, but it is regardless of prior wins and losses.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
jml24
jml24
Joined: Feb 28, 2011
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February 29th, 2012 at 1:41:42 PM permalink
Quote: slackyhacky

Define "betting system" for me. Perhaps that is my hang up.



I think for the purposes of this forum you can assume "betting system" means a system of varying your bets in a way that will beat the house when playing a negative expectation game. These are deemed "worthless" because it is mathematically impossible for them to change the expectation. If you find a system that increases variance to be valuable to you then "worthless" might be too strong a word.

Blackjack basic strategy is not a betting system because it doesn't tell you how much to bet, it tells you what play to make. Because BJ has an element of skill you need to learn the strategy to minimize the house edge. A betting system can be used even with a game that is 100% luck, like roulette or a craps bet.

The reason the subtitle to the forum mentions "worthless" and "mathematically challenged" is because there are continually people claiming they have developed a way of varying their bets in such a way that they can beat some casino game. This is clearly impossible to anyone with a basic understanding of mathematics and probability. The system developer that lacks that understanding can never be convinced otherwise so these claims tend to result in never ending arguments.

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