Blackjack Martingale

OK people. In all seriousness, I need you to talk me out of trying a Blackjack Martingale. I’ve read most all of your posts regarding the matter. I understand that the majority of you believe that it can’t work. I understand that. You always have to end up “paying the piper.” I get that.

I emailed Mike and asked him to run a different set of numbers (percentages) based upon my modified basic strategy. I offered to pay him. He respectfully replied that he didn’t have the patience to run the numbers. He also suggested I raise the question on his forum. Hence, this post.

Before I explain it, here are some things you should know:
I have 10K to blow.
Before you reject it off-hand as “this won’t work,” TRY IT.
It requires a table that’s min 5, max 5000.
I’ve played thousands of hands using this method. There’s a free Iphone app. You can use up to 8 decks (I usually use 6). In my research (read that: THOUSANDS of hands), statistically the house wins 47% of the time, I win 43% (remaining 10% is a push). But betting this way, I’m still up. Significantly.

First, let’s talk about the modified basic strategy. It’s the strategy that you all know and love, EXCEPT: Never split. Never double. Never surrender. Never take insurance. Don’t play the way you normally play. Try it like that.

As far as the Martingale goes, it’s like this:

Bet Invested Won Net
Hand #1 15 15 30 15
Hand #2 35 50 70 20
Hand #3 75 125 150 25
Hand #4 150 275 300 25
Hand #5 300 575 600 25
Hand #6 600 1175 1200 25
Hand #7 1200 2375 2400 25
Hand #8 2400 4775 4800 25
Hand #9 4800 9575 9600 25

If you win, go back to Hand 1 and start over. If you lose, move to the next Hand.
For a push, it’s like a “do over.” Just continue like it didn’t happen. Bet the same money.
Willing to lose 5K? You’ve got 8 chances. Willing to lose 10K? You’ve got 9 chances.

In my research, I’ve found that you rarely get up past hand #6. I’ve lost hand #8 a total of 5 times. I’ve never lost hand #9. Yes, I know it will eventually happen.

So, if you’ve got the time, try it. And please don’t reply unless you actually try it. I’m sure there are plenty of Monday Morning Quarterbacks out there. I’ll save you the post and type it here: “You’re an idiot. This won’t work. You’re mathematically challenged.”

Yeah, well. They also thought said world was flat.

I’m looking for useful input here, people. Anyone can anonymously call me names.

Quote: mikemartingale

In my research, I’ve found that you rarely get up past hand #6. I’ve lost hand #8 a total of 5 times. I’ve never lost hand #9. Yes, I know it will eventually happen.

Yup, it will happen. Eventually you have to hit the wall
and lose everything. It might take years. It might happen
tomorrow. Knowing that makes your progression a curiosity,
not a viable way of play.

I can tell you from live table play at least 3 times 2 weekends ago I lost every hand in a shoe, one was +5 to +6 a majority of the way through no less. That means at least 3 times I would have completely annihilated my bankroll in one shoe, playing yoru way. You have to be able to play through those without martingale'ng, which is essentially tilting.

Almost everytime I've played, I've had to weather at least one shoe that would decimate your 9 hand martingale, not to mention it would tables max out well prior to that at any casino, especially anyting willing to let you start at 15 or 25.

Playing 100 a hand you can get 6k max's but that only allows, you to go to the the 7th hand and that's won't net you back the intial bet since you can't go to 6400. 500s will net you a higher max but again won't get you to 9 hands. Casino's are wise enough not to let someone endlessly Martingale. Computer simulations will differ very much from live play.

You can give it a shot, but it will break you in time. Variance can net you a winning trip or two, but I find progressiving beyond the 3rd hand to be somewhat suicidal bankroll wise.

Good luck!

How can you expect anyone on this site to agree with you that not splitting aces is a good idea? C'mon man.

if youre going to martingale, the player bet in baccarat is probably the best way to go.

I also have never seen a min $5/max $5k table. Make sure they exist. Good luck, too.

I won $15 playing Texas Hold'em Bonus in Atlantic City a week ago. I won the first seven hands and then lost the next six ( with a push in there somewhere ). I seem to notice when things get streaky so I left before I could lose the seventh hand in a row. Had I been playing a Martingale, I would have been betting over 78 grand just to win $5.

Not fun!

You have a pair of 8's. The dealer has a 7 showing? You advocate not splitting?

Do you realize how lucky you have been? FIVE times you've been to the brink... and FIVE times you won even though you yourself admit your horrible strategy only wins 43% of the time.

Let's say you would have lost 3 of those five as would be the modal result.... would you even be posing this question....?

Quote: mikemartingale

Before I explain it, here are some things you should know:
I have 10K to blow.

I think you can find a casino to accommodate this behavior. I have to imagine your modified rules really send the house edge soaring. I could see only doubling only on 10 & 11 vs 6 or less but why never? I don't recall seeing any 5-5000 tables. I personally would rather get super aggressive at craps where the payoffs on the 4&10 are 2 to 1 before the commish.

Quote: mikemartingale

I have 10K to blow.

I can double this in the currency markets in 6 months but it probably won't be as fun as losing it in half the time with your martingale. Must be nice.

you need to at least play perfect BS w/o exception !!!

In the short term anything can and will happen , but remember it is possible to lose 10 hands in a row.

If you have 10'gs ready to rock ? Would it be better to try and Wong in and bet at least 2-5 G's , at least then you have enough BR to split, double, and withstand a loss or 2 ( although not much more )

If you are willing to bet at a huge ROR, might as well try and lower the HE

Good luck !!

Quote: Face

I also have never seen a min $5/max $5k table. Make sure they exist. Good luck, too.

The solution to this has always struck me as easy. Once you get stopped by the maximum bet, you go to a table that does allow the bet you need. What am I missing?

Even if you have billions in your bankroll, the higher limit tables still have limits. At some point you'll hit them. There are no casinos anymore who will fade any bet of any size.

And are you willing to risk a six figure bet to win your $5 back?

Also, if you have billions in your bankroll you're probably not playing a $5 Martingale. You make more per hour investing than the $250 you might expect from blackjack.

Quote: odiousgambit

The solution to this has always struck me as easy. Once you get stopped by the maximum bet, you go to a table that does allow the bet you need. What am I missing?

I'm guessing you're missing the endless supply of cash AND the table limit in the shape of the "oo" symbol to guarantee that you could martingale for eternity just in case...

Quote: odiousgambit

The solution to this has always struck me as easy. Once you get stopped by the maximum bet, you go to a table that does allow the bet you need. What am I missing?

The other table is not hot.

Ha, well, in any case needing to get to place a 5k bet should not stop him.

Quote: bruski

I'm guessing you're missing the endless supply of cash AND the table limit in the shape of the "oo" symbol to guarantee that you could martingale for eternity just in case...

What are the odds of having to martingale for eternity?

Is blackjack a good game for a martingale since it is not a true coin flip but a lot of the player edge is based upon splits, doubles, and being paid extra for the blackjack? How much does giving up this edge cost in a martingale and raise your chances of nine loses in a row?

Yea it's actually a terrible game for Martingale betting considering, splits and doubles are a lot of what cuts the house edge. You'd be better off on a single 0 wheel, Baccarat, or even Craps.

Quote: kp

What are the odds of having to martingale for eternity?

If you mean eternity literally, then the odds are exactly 0 :)

Quote:

Is blackjack a good game for a martingale

There is no such thing as a good game for martingale

Quote:

How much does giving up this edge cost in a martingale and raise your chances of nine loses in a row?

It costs about 2% of the house edge.

A few things:

Since my initial post yesterday, I haven’t received any solid data. Other than, “Don’t do it.” Did anyone actually try it? I’m looking for someone else to try it. And try it EXACTLY the way I laid it out. In my simulation, I’m up 60K. Even if I did lose 9 times, I’m still up 50K. And why is a simulation any different than the real thing? We’re talking about the completely objective act of cards out of a chute. It’s math at its core. Also, the app shuffles after every shoe, just like the Casino.

These casinos on the Vegas strip have $5-$5000 tables:
Caesar’s.
Aria.
Cosmopolitan.
Encore.
Wynn.
(I found that information on this WoV site.)

Another thing I’ve noticed (with gamblers, especially), you always assume the worst. For example, you see the dealer with an up card of 3. Most gamblers almost always assume the dealer has 13. As you were reading this, YOU just did. True, the odds point that way, but as we all know, it’s not always the case. There are 9 other cards besides 10, J, Q, K. My point is that you should never always assume the odds. This relates to my Martingale because everyone seems to be assuming that I’ll always hit the 9th loss every time I sit at the table. It just doesn’t happen.

Also, BJ seems to be the best game for a Martingale because of the large number of hands you can get per hour. In the research I’ve done, at a full BJ table, you average 60 hands per hour. For 3 people at the table, it’s 80/hr. For 1 person, it 120/hr. Understand I’m talking about averages here. You could have slow or fast dealers, or slow or fast other players.

I still haven’t found a logical reason to NOT try this. It would be different if my simulation tanked. It hasn’t.

Quote: mikemartingale

Other than, “Don’t do it.”

I think you should do it. Do it and do it. Every day in
the world, somebody 'discovers' the Martingale. Its
your turn in the barrel.

Mike Martingale said "Another thing I’ve noticed (with gamblers, especially), you always assume the worst."
Well wouldn't that be the proof of the pudding? You are assuming what's the best that could happen and ignoring the fact that the worst can and does happen and according to Murphy usually at the worst possible time.

Quote: mikemartingale

I still haven’t found a logical reason to NOT try this. It would be different if my simulation tanked. It hasn’t.

If you are not afraid of losing your initial stake of $5k then go ahead! If your win goal is low enough you are more likely to win than lose. I could never do it. I just couldn't not split 8's or aces, not double an 11, etc... Please report back to the forum your real life success (or failure).

Quote: mikemartingale

These casinos on the Vegas strip have $5-$5000 tables:
Caesar’s.
Aria.
Cosmopolitan.
Encore.
Wynn.
(I found that information on this WoV site.)

I have been out of town and am slowly trying to catch up on this forum's posts. I haven't read this entire thread, but I think it is possible that you have misinterpreted the info that the Wizard offers. Those casinos may indeed offer Blackjack at wager levels from $5 to $5000, but I think it would be unusual to find that much range at a single table. I don't play at the $5000 level, so maybe someone will correct me on this. I think it is more common for a $5 min table to be limited to $200 or $500 max. To have a $5000 max, I suspect there would be something closer to $100 minimum.

I suppose you could hop your Martingale over to another table each time you have lost too many straight for the limits at your first table, then move back to the cheap table if you ever win a hand.

As for advice, I think you should go for it. Seeing what happens to your $5k should be entertainment for all of us. At least I for one value my entertainment higher than your money. ;-)

Quote: mikemartingale

A few things:

Since my initial post yesterday, I haven’t received any solid data. Other than, “Don’t do it.” Did anyone actually try it? I’m looking for someone else to try it. And try it EXACTLY the way I laid it out. In my simulation, I’m up 60K. Even if I did lose 9 times, I’m still up 50K. And why is a simulation any different than the real thing? We’re talking about the completely objective act of cards out of a chute. It’s math at its core. Also, the app shuffles after every shoe, just like the Casino

The math is often based on a simulation. The Wizard and others use a simulator to derive many of their blackjack statistics. Your sample size of a few thousand hands is too small. Any simulation of any significant amount of hands is going to show going busted every time.

Quote:

I still haven’t found a logical reason to NOT try this. It would be different if my simulation tanked. It hasn’t.

Why insist on blowing your money on a negative expectation proposition? With $10K to blow, you could try some shrewd investment strategies (the same as gambling), or at least learn card counting to give yourself the advantage.

Quote:

Another thing I’ve noticed (with gamblers, especially), you always assume the worst. For example, you see the dealer with an up card of 3. Most gamblers almost always assume the dealer has 13. As you were reading this, YOU just did. True, the odds point that way, but as we all know, it’s not always the case. There are 9 other cards besides 10, J, Q, K. My point is that you should never always assume the odds. This relates to my Martingale because everyone seems to be assuming that I’ll always hit the 9th loss every time I sit at the table. It just doesn’t happen.

Smart gamblers always expect the worst, and are prepared for it. The opposite go to the casino every time expecting to win.

Quote: mikemartingale

everyone seems to be assuming that I’ll always hit the 9th loss every time I sit at the table. It just doesn’t happen.

How often does it happen in your simulation? Is that something you can live with?

Quote: mikemartingale

Also, BJ seems to be the best game for a Martingale because of the large number of hands you can get per hour.

There's a good argument for number of hands per hour when you're churning a lot to build up your wins. The edge you lose from never spiting or doubling will make you progress through the martingale more often. The key is how often that will push you over the nine loss limit.

There is not a table in the house that stretches from 5 - 5000, I play at the 100 and 200 minimums often enough. You would have to get up from the 5 dollar tables, head to the 25s, and then the 100s to get the max's you would need. Which slows down that whole hands per hour thing you think makes blackjack smart. On top of you'd have to be starting with a 5 dollar bet or the spread goes past what's offered in the casino, cutting down on your dollars per hour severely. And I said in my prior post, I have lost that many hands in a row. More than once in a day. I've also won that many in a row, results will vary. It's not far-fetched, for you to break very early.

I've also ran a blackjack simulator over 200k more than once, sadly haven't reproduced that in real life yet, nor am I dumb enough to think it directly translates to my live play.

I'm re-posting this story as it seams relevant to this thread.

I went out to Vegas one year with a buddy for an audiophile show. It was his first trip to Vegas. He studied on the internet and learned about the Martingale. I told him he was crazy. He ran simulations and said you hardly ever lose. I told him he was crazy. He continued to run simulations; even on the plane he was using a hand held BJ game to further prove his winning approach. I told him he was crazy. At Ellis Island he found a video BJ game where you could bet .25 to 5.00 per credit and 1-100 credits giving him a spread of .25 to $500. I told him he was crazy. He was doing good for a while. Then it happened. .25 lost. .50 lost. 1.00 lost. 2.00 lost. 4.00 lost. 8.00 lost. 16.00 lost. 32.00 lost. 64.00 lost. 128.00 lost. 256.00 lost. Eleven losses in a row and no room left to double. Over $500 lost chasing a $.25 win. I stopped telling him he was crazy; the realization finally hit home. He too went home and never came back.

Quote: mikemartingale

A few things:

Since my initial post yesterday, I haven’t received any solid data. Other than, “Don’t do it.” Did anyone actually try it? I’m looking for someone else to try it. And try it EXACTLY the way I laid it out. In my simulation, I’m up 60K. Even if I did lose 9 times, I’m still up 50K. And why is a simulation any different than the real thing? We’re talking about the completely objective act of cards out of a chute. It’s math at its core. Also, the app shuffles after every shoe, just like the Casino.

These casinos on the Vegas strip have $5-$5000 tables:
Caesar’s.
Aria.
Cosmopolitan.
Encore.
Wynn.
(I found that information on this WoV site.)

I'll be at Caesars LV on 12/4. I'll be happy to play your way. But, since your rule changes make the game even worse for the player than regular BJ is, I'll need to play with your money. Please PM me, and we'll set up a way for you to send me your money to use in the test.

Quote: mikemartingale

A few things:

Since my initial post yesterday, I haven’t received any solid data. Other than, “Don’t do it.” Did anyone actually try it? I’m looking for someone else to try it. And try it EXACTLY the way I laid it out. In my simulation, I’m up 60K. Even if I did lose 9 times, I’m still up 50K. And why is a simulation any different than the real thing? We’re talking about the completely objective act of cards out of a chute. It’s math at its core. Also, the app shuffles after every shoe, just like the Casino.

These casinos on the Vegas strip have $5-$5000 tables:
Caesar’s.
Aria.
Cosmopolitan.
Encore.
Wynn.
(I found that information on this WoV site.)

Another thing I’ve noticed (with gamblers, especially), you always assume the worst. For example, you see the dealer with an up card of 3. Most gamblers almost always assume the dealer has 13. As you were reading this, YOU just did. True, the odds point that way, but as we all know, it’s not always the case. There are 9 other cards besides 10, J, Q, K. My point is that you should never always assume the odds. This relates to my Martingale because everyone seems to be assuming that I’ll always hit the 9th loss every time I sit at the table. It just doesn’t happen.

Also, BJ seems to be the best game for a Martingale because of the large number of hands you can get per hour. In the research I’ve done, at a full BJ table, you average 60 hands per hour. For 3 people at the table, it’s 80/hr. For 1 person, it 120/hr. Understand I’m talking about averages here. You could have slow or fast dealers, or slow or fast other players.

I still haven’t found a logical reason to NOT try this. It would be different if my simulation tanked. It hasn’t.

I am sure all of those casino's offer tables from 5-5000 but the problem is finding a table that will offer that spread while keeping you in the same shoe. Most $25 tables I play max out at $2500.
I'm half tempted to invite you over to my house for an evening of private play. I find it interesting that you have a lot of knowledgeable smart folks telling you it is a bad idea but yet you want hard data. If you posted the question "should I start smoking"? Would you expect others to start researching the effects of smoking as a challenge to what is already know about the risks. Your idea may work out well for you because you probably will get saved but I promise you if you only have played on a BJ sim, the second you have 2500 in the betting circle your balls will be in your throat!! Why not play regular BS and maybe double or triple your bet after a string of losses. No reason to give up splitting or doubling just because it messes with you clean martingale.

mikemartingale,

Here are the numbers I generated from a 400-million-round sim using CVData for a 6D, S17 game with 75% pen for a heads-up player using your Martingale system. The output below shows how the player fared as a function of the number of units bet on that round. Note that all bets of 50 or more units are lumped together at the bottom of the table: this is a limitation of the CVData output. Note also that I made the second bet $30 rather than $35, so that I could use $15 units: otherwise, I'd have had to use $5 units, and then everything from $300 up would have been lumped together. Note also that the maximum bet I used was only 160 units, or $2,400: CVData does not permit a max bet of more than 200 units.

As for playing, as per your instructions the player uses Basic Strategy except that he never splits, doubles down, or surrenders. This strategy provides the player an Initial Bet Advantage of -2.313% overall. Overall, the player wins 43.35% of the rounds, loses 47.96% of the rounds, and pushes the remaining 8.69% of the rounds. If we exclude pushes, the player wins 47.47% of the decisive rounds, and loses the remaining 52.53% of the decisive rounds.

As you can see by the data below, regardless of the number of units he bets, the player loses more bets than he wins.

Bet	Bet	Hands	Hands	Hands	Hands	Units	Units	Advantage	Advantage
Units	$	Total	Won	Lost	Tied	Bet	Won/Lost	Percent	Std. Dev.
1	$15	208,742,688	90,474,304	-100,128,896	18,139,484	208,742,800	-4,932,977	-2.36%	0.008
2	$30	100,128,824	43,405,056	-48,018,892	8,704,875	200,257,600	-4,697,970	-2.35%	0.011
5	$75	48,018,828	20,819,292	-23,022,082	4,177,454	240,094,100	-5,569,235	-2.32%	0.016
10	$150	23,022,068	9,977,179	-11,042,017	2,002,872	230,220,600	-5,425,931	-2.36%	0.023
20	$300	11,042,004	4,790,012	-5,291,976	960,016	220,840,000	-5,024,870	-2.28%	0.03
40	$600	5,291,970	2,294,236	-2,536,822	460,912	211,678,800	-4,899,960	-2.32%	0.05
>50	$1200+	3,753,581	1,627,588	-1,799,161	326,832	397,627,600	-8,982,600	-2.26%	0.06

This next table shows your streaks by hour of play. Each row shows the number of times you've won "Win (Number)" or lost "Lose (Number)" the indicated number of units per hour. For example, if you look at the row labeled "5", you'll see that you had 12,273 hours where you won 5 units, and 7,260 hours where you lost 5 units. CVData assumes the game was played at 100 rounds per hour, so the 400-million-round sim comprised 4,000,000 hours of playing time. Thus, the "Win (Percent)" column shows that you won 5 units 0.31% of the hours (12,273/4,000,000 = 0.00306825 = 0.31%), while the "Lose (Percent)" column shows that you lost 5 units 0.18% of the hours you played. The "Cum%" columns show that you had an hour of winning 5 units OR MORE 74.40% of the time, while you had an hour of losing 5 units OR FEWER (that is, any result of -5 units or better: -4, -3, -2, etc., including wins) 76.80% of the time. The last column shows the difference between the number of winning hours and the number of losing hours for each result.

Thus, if you look at the top row, you'll see that more than three-fourths of the hours you play will be break-even or better. Therefore, less than one-fourth of the hours will actually be losers. This is why Martingale systems are so seductive: they APPEAR to work over the short term. If you look further down the table, to the row labeled "41", you'll see that just over half the hours played will result in wins of 41 units or more. Still farther down, we see that 10% of the time you'll win 68 or more units in an hour. Even farther down, we see that 1% of the time you'll win 122 units or more in an hour.

In fact, if you look down the "Win-Loss" column, you'll see that for every result of 102 units or less, you have a better chance of Winning that number than of Losing that number. This is also true for results of 126 to 145.

Let's look for the BIG hours! At the bottom of the table, you'll see that 0.07% of the time, you'll win more than 207 units in an hour: Easy Street, here I come!

Of course, if you look a bit further to the right, you'll see that you LOST 207 or more units in an hour 534,214 times: that means 13.36% of the hours you play will cost you more than 207 units, or in other words, more than $3,105.

All this supposes, by the way, that you NEVER run out of money. If you do have to stop because you run out, your actual results will be even worse than what is shown here.

	Units per Hour	Units per Hour	Units per Hour	Units per Hour	Units per Hour	Units per Hour	Win-Loss
Units	Win (Number)	Win (Percent)	Cum%	Lose (Number)	Lose (Percent)	Cum%
0	4,559	0.11%	75.70%		0.00%	75.70%	4559
<1	4,795	0.12%	75.60%	4,521	0.11%	75.80%	274
1	9,918	0.25%	75.40%	8,645	0.22%	76.00%	1273
2	10,409	0.26%	75.20%	8,294	0.21%	76.20%	2115
3	10,868	0.27%	74.90%	8,015	0.20%	76.40%	2853
4	11,561	0.29%	74.70%	7,742	0.19%	76.60%	3819
5	12,273	0.31%	74.40%	7,260	0.18%	76.80%	5013
6	12,954	0.32%	74.10%	7,011	0.18%	77.00%	5943
7	13,633	0.34%	73.70%	6,550	0.16%	77.10%	7083
8	14,302	0.36%	73.40%	6,590	0.17%	77.30%	7712
9	14,952	0.37%	73.00%	6,183	0.16%	77.40%	8769
10	15,609	0.39%	72.70%	5,936	0.15%	77.60%	9673
11	16,242	0.41%	72.30%	5,783	0.15%	77.70%	10459
12	17,188	0.43%	71.90%	5,638	0.14%	77.90%	11550
13	17,556	0.44%	71.40%	5,809	0.15%	78.00%	11747
14	18,324	0.46%	71.00%	5,586	0.14%	78.20%	12738
15	18,911	0.47%	70.50%	5,567	0.14%	78.30%	13344
16	19,584	0.49%	70.10%	5,686	0.14%	78.40%	13898
17	19,723	0.49%	69.60%	5,797	0.15%	78.60%	13926
18	20,783	0.52%	69.10%	5,939	0.15%	78.70%	14844
19	21,194	0.53%	68.60%	5,948	0.15%	78.90%	15246
20	21,701	0.54%	68.00%	6,168	0.15%	79.00%	15533
21	22,470	0.56%	67.50%	6,324	0.16%	79.20%	16146
22	23,338	0.58%	66.90%	6,564	0.16%	79.40%	16774
23	23,771	0.59%	66.30%	6,383	0.16%	79.50%	17388
24	24,645	0.62%	65.80%	6,583	0.17%	79.70%	18062
25	25,758	0.64%	65.10%	6,581	0.17%	79.80%	19177
26	26,793	0.67%	64.50%	6,445	0.16%	80.00%	20348
27	28,183	0.71%	63.80%	6,338	0.16%	80.20%	21845
28	29,660	0.74%	63.10%	6,283	0.16%	80.30%	23377
29	31,303	0.78%	62.40%	6,101	0.15%	80.50%	25202
30	32,380	0.81%	61.60%	5,937	0.15%	80.60%	26443
31	34,312	0.86%	60.80%	5,896	0.15%	80.80%	28416
32	35,817	0.90%	59.90%	5,689	0.14%	80.90%	30128
33	37,661	0.94%	59.00%	5,459	0.14%	81.10%	32202
34	39,398	0.99%	58.10%	5,280	0.13%	81.20%	34118
35	41,466	1.04%	57.10%	4,940	0.12%	81.30%	36526
36	43,401	1.09%	56.10%	4,704	0.12%	81.40%	38697
37	45,289	1.13%	55.00%	4,589	0.12%	81.50%	40700
38	47,231	1.18%	53.90%	4,325	0.11%	81.60%	42906
39	49,345	1.23%	52.70%	4,166	0.10%	81.80%	45179
40	51,431	1.29%	51.40%	4,029	0.10%	81.90%	47402
41	53,110	1.33%	50.20%	3,752	0.09%	81.90%	49358
42	55,398	1.39%	48.80%	3,588	0.09%	82.00%	51810
43	57,915	1.45%	47.40%	3,367	0.08%	82.10%	54548
44	59,203	1.48%	46.00%	3,270	0.08%	82.20%	55933
45	60,964	1.52%	44.50%	3,100	0.08%	82.30%	57864
46	63,070	1.58%	43.00%	2,965	0.07%	82.40%	60105
47	64,923	1.62%	41.40%	2,883	0.07%	82.40%	62040
48	66,397	1.66%	39.80%	2,766	0.07%	82.50%	63631
49	68,303	1.71%	38.10%	2,477	0.06%	82.60%	65826
50	69,279	1.73%	36.40%	2,302	0.06%	82.60%	66977
51	70,971	1.77%	34.70%	2,243	0.06%	82.70%	68728
52	70,960	1.77%	32.90%	2,069	0.05%	82.70%	68891
53	71,180	1.78%	31.10%	1,985	0.05%	82.80%	69195
54	71,231	1.78%	29.40%	1,911	0.05%	82.80%	69320
55	70,531	1.76%	27.60%	1,805	0.05%	82.90%	68726
56	68,992	1.73%	25.80%	1,849	0.05%	82.90%	67143
57	67,606	1.69%	24.10%	1,639	0.04%	83.00%	65967
58	65,017	1.63%	22.40%	1,571	0.04%	83.00%	63446
59	61,988	1.55%	20.80%	1,532	0.04%	83.00%	60456
60	59,170	1.48%	19.20%	1,470	0.04%	83.10%	57700
61	55,885	1.40%	17.70%	1,584	0.04%	83.10%	54301
62	52,178	1.30%	16.40%	1,391	0.04%	83.10%	50787
63	48,138	1.20%	15.00%	1,454	0.04%	83.20%	46684
64	44,420	1.11%	13.80%	1,415	0.04%	83.20%	43005
65	40,657	1.02%	12.70%	1,378	0.03%	83.20%	39279
66	37,032	0.93%	11.70%	1,341	0.03%	83.30%	35691
67	33,031	0.83%	10.80%	1,257	0.03%	83.30%	31774
68	29,868	0.75%	10.00%	1,270	0.03%	83.30%	28598
69	27,105	0.68%	9.20%	1,187	0.03%	83.40%	25918
70	24,351	0.61%	8.50%	1,157	0.03%	83.40%	23194
71	21,572	0.54%	7.90%	1,089	0.03%	83.40%	20483
72	19,537	0.49%	7.40%	1,048	0.03%	83.50%	18489
73	17,354	0.43%	6.90%	1,013	0.03%	83.50%	16341
74	15,917	0.40%	6.50%	989	0.03%	83.50%	14928
75	14,473	0.36%	6.10%	921	0.02%	83.50%	13552
76	12,923	0.32%	5.70%	928	0.02%	83.60%	11995
77	11,625	0.29%	5.40%	877	0.02%	83.60%	10748
78	10,609	0.27%	5.10%	844	0.02%	83.60%	9765
79	9,827	0.25%	4.80%	823	0.02%	83.60%	9004
80	9,101	0.23%	4.60%	832	0.02%	83.60%	8269
81	8,166	0.20%	4.40%	782	0.02%	83.70%	7384
82	7,613	0.19%	4.20%	817	0.02%	83.70%	6796
83	6,989	0.18%	4.00%	740	0.02%	83.70%	6249
84	6,520	0.16%	3.80%	810	0.02%	83.70%	5710
85	6,035	0.15%	3.60%	830	0.02%	83.70%	5205
86	5,861	0.15%	3.50%	813	0.02%	83.80%	5048
87	5,359	0.13%	3.30%	873	0.02%	83.80%	4486
88	5,198	0.13%	3.20%	893	0.02%	83.80%	4305
89	4,984	0.13%	3.10%	909	0.02%	83.80%	4075
90	4,645	0.12%	2.90%	975	0.02%	83.80%	3670
91	4,481	0.11%	2.80%	977	0.02%	83.90%	3504
92	4,310	0.11%	2.70%	1,161	0.03%	83.90%	3149
93	4,179	0.10%	2.60%	1,219	0.03%	83.90%	2960
94	4,086	0.10%	2.50%	1,271	0.03%	84.00%	2815
95	3,722	0.09%	2.40%	1,356	0.03%	84.00%	2366
96	3,665	0.09%	2.30%	1,503	0.04%	84.00%	2162
97	3,503	0.09%	2.20%	1,601	0.04%	84.10%	1902
98	3,192	0.08%	2.10%	1,780	0.05%	84.10%	1412
99	3,063	0.08%	2.00%	1,879	0.05%	84.20%	1184
100	2,793	0.07%	2.00%	2,087	0.05%	84.20%	706
101	2,674	0.07%	1.90%	2,240	0.06%	84.30%	434
102	2,448	0.06%	1.80%	2,258	0.06%	84.30%	190
103	2,315	0.06%	1.80%	2,398	0.06%	84.40%	-83
104	2,084	0.05%	1.70%	2,589	0.07%	84.50%	-505
105	1,998	0.05%	1.70%	2,532	0.06%	84.50%	-534
106	1,740	0.04%	1.60%	2,546	0.06%	84.60%	-806
107	1,700	0.04%	1.60%	2,591	0.07%	84.60%	-891
108	1,593	0.04%	1.50%	2,665	0.07%	84.70%	-1072
109	1,491	0.04%	1.50%	2,649	0.07%	84.80%	-1158
110	1,455	0.04%	1.40%	2,687	0.07%	84.80%	-1232
111	1,392	0.04%	1.40%	2,507	0.06%	84.90%	-1115
112	1,385	0.04%	1.40%	2,400	0.06%	85.00%	-1015
113	1,301	0.03%	1.30%	2,375	0.06%	85.00%	-1074
114	1,298	0.03%	1.30%	2,375	0.06%	85.10%	-1077
115	1,269	0.03%	1.30%	2,179	0.05%	85.10%	-910
116	1,338	0.03%	1.20%	2,166	0.05%	85.20%	-828
117	1,319	0.03%	1.20%	2,103	0.05%	85.20%	-784
118	1,286	0.03%	1.20%	2,056	0.05%	85.30%	-770
119	1,332	0.03%	1.10%	2,007	0.05%	85.40%	-675
120	1,292	0.03%	1.10%	1,850	0.05%	85.40%	-558
121	1,306	0.03%	1.10%	1,751	0.04%	85.40%	-445
122	1,334	0.03%	1.00%	1,676	0.04%	85.50%	-342
123	1,360	0.03%	1.00%	1,607	0.04%	85.50%	-247
124	1,384	0.04%	1.00%	1,496	0.04%	85.60%	-112
125	1,465	0.04%	0.90%	1,489	0.04%	85.60%	-24
126	1,440	0.04%	0.90%	1,347	0.03%	85.60%	93
127	1,408	0.04%	0.90%	1,227	0.03%	85.70%	181
128	1,451	0.04%	0.80%	1,247	0.03%	85.70%	204
129	1,477	0.04%	0.80%	1,195	0.03%	85.70%	282
130	1,439	0.04%	0.80%	1,170	0.03%	85.80%	269
131	1,547	0.04%	0.70%	1,042	0.03%	85.80%	505
132	1,455	0.04%	0.70%	972	0.02%	85.80%	483
133	1,414	0.04%	0.70%	942	0.02%	85.80%	472
134	1,380	0.04%	0.60%	897	0.02%	85.80%	483
135	1,454	0.04%	0.60%	858	0.02%	85.90%	596
136	1,311	0.03%	0.50%	822	0.02%	85.90%	489
137	1,208	0.03%	0.50%	757	0.02%	85.90%	451
138	1,128	0.03%	0.50%	770	0.02%	85.90%	358
139	1,115	0.03%	0.50%	717	0.02%	85.90%	398
140	1,062	0.03%	0.40%	689	0.02%	86.00%	373
141	912	0.02%	0.40%	624	0.02%	86.00%	288
142	858	0.02%	0.40%	657	0.02%	86.00%	201
143	831	0.02%	0.40%	719	0.02%	86.00%	112
144	748	0.02%	0.30%	641	0.02%	86.00%	107
145	684	0.02%	0.30%	614	0.02%	86.00%	70
146	549	0.01%	0.30%	579	0.01%	86.10%	-30
147	479	0.01%	0.30%	591	0.02%	86.10%	-112
148	460	0.01%	0.30%	588	0.02%	86.10%	-128
149	402	0.01%	0.30%	526	0.01%	86.10%	-124
150	380	0.01%	0.30%	545	0.01%	86.10%	-165
151	314	0.01%	0.20%	504	0.01%	86.10%	-190
152	301	0.01%	0.20%	475	0.01%	86.10%	-174
153	284	0.01%	0.20%	458	0.01%	86.20%	-174
154	247	0.01%	0.20%	405	0.01%	86.20%	-158
155	247	0.01%	0.20%	425	0.01%	86.20%	-178
156	223	0.01%	0.20%	365	0.01%	86.20%	-142
157	196	0.01%	0.20%	353	0.01%	86.20%	-157
158	207	0.01%	0.20%	343	0.01%	86.20%	-136
159	179	0.00%	0.20%	328	0.01%	86.20%	-149
160	153	0.00%	0.20%	332	0.01%	86.20%	-179
161	158	0.00%	0.20%	323	0.01%	86.20%	-165
162	159	0.00%	0.20%	307	0.01%	86.20%	-148
163	135	0.00%	0.20%	291	0.01%	86.20%	-156
164	130	0.00%	0.20%	273	0.01%	86.20%	-143
165	133	0.00%	0.20%	269	0.01%	86.30%	-136
166	123	0.00%	0.20%	256	0.01%	86.30%	-133
167	132	0.00%	0.20%	247	0.01%	86.30%	-115
168	120	0.00%	0.20%	233	0.01%	86.30%	-113
169	145	0.00%	0.20%	252	0.01%	86.30%	-107
170	122	0.00%	0.20%	236	0.01%	86.30%	-114
171	123	0.00%	0.20%	238	0.01%	86.30%	-115
172	126	0.00%	0.10%	246	0.01%	86.30%	-120
173	107	0.00%	0.10%	280	0.01%	86.30%	-173
174	120	0.00%	0.10%	271	0.01%	86.30%	-151
175	113	0.00%	0.10%	271	0.01%	86.30%	-158
176	128	0.00%	0.10%	301	0.01%	86.30%	-173
177	93	0.00%	0.10%	302	0.01%	86.30%	-209
178	98	0.00%	0.10%	344	0.01%	86.30%	-246
179	104	0.00%	0.10%	359	0.01%	86.30%	-255
180	101	0.00%	0.10%	377	0.01%	86.40%	-276
181	95	0.00%	0.10%	418	0.01%	86.40%	-323
182	71	0.00%	0.10%	371	0.01%	86.40%	-300
183	76	0.00%	0.10%	413	0.01%	86.40%	-337
184	55	0.00%	0.10%	453	0.01%	86.40%	-398
185	72	0.00%	0.10%	445	0.01%	86.40%	-373
186	73	0.00%	0.10%	483	0.01%	86.40%	-410
187	82	0.00%	0.10%	509	0.01%	86.40%	-427
188	75	0.00%	0.10%	514	0.01%	86.40%	-439
189	74	0.00%	0.10%	512	0.01%	86.50%	-438
190	56	0.00%	0.10%	542	0.01%	86.50%	-486
191	78	0.00%	0.10%	498	0.01%	86.50%	-420
192	69	0.00%	0.10%	484	0.01%	86.50%	-415
193	91	0.00%	0.10%	533	0.01%	86.50%	-442
194	81	0.00%	0.10%	448	0.01%	86.50%	-367
195	76	0.00%	0.10%	433	0.01%	86.50%	-357
196	80	0.00%	0.10%	442	0.01%	86.50%	-362
197	94	0.00%	0.10%	416	0.01%	86.60%	-322
198	81	0.00%	0.10%	407	0.01%	86.60%	-326
199	81	0.00%	0.10%	378	0.01%	86.60%	-297
200	94	0.00%	0.10%	395	0.01%	86.60%	-301
201	92	0.00%	0.10%	334	0.01%	86.60%	-242
202	122	0.00%	0.10%	363	0.01%	86.60%	-241
203	103	0.00%	0.10%	388	0.01%	86.60%	-285
204	97	0.00%	0.10%	327	0.01%	86.60%	-230
205	99	0.00%	0.10%	310	0.01%	86.60%	-211
206	125	0.00%	0.10%	335	0.01%	86.60%	-210
207	108	0.00%	0.10%	357	0.01%	86.60%	-249
>207	2,646	0.07%	0.10%	534,214	13.36%	100.00%	-531568

By the way, with your poor B.S., you'd be much better off taking this Martingale system to baccarat and betting the Banker each time, since there the house edge is just over 1%.

Hope this helps!

Dog Hand

DogHand –

You completely did what I was looking for! Thank you for taking the time to put all that together for me. I had to see it in black and white. The actual numbers were what I needed to understand it.

Thanks to everyone else for their input.

Some of us ONLY learn things in black and white. I believe NOTHING unless I can see the data.

Hey hows it going? Heres my thought i ran a few numbers but all it comes down to is risking alot to win a little with a semi advantage but the one time it goes bad you go broke. I live 45 minutes from ac and i am 26 years old. I thought about this system to myself just like most of yous im sure and decided to do some research cause it sounded to right thought up. You have to be firm on a number to hit and firm on an amount to loose!! I would have 2k on me 3 nights a week and i would win 250 300 a night simply by starting with a 10 15 dollar bet and doubling my bet everytime so that i would make my original profit bet. I dont double i split in very specific situations. Like i said before the time is gonna kill you longer you play more chance you have of losing . All im saying is that im gonna win 1 out of every 6 hands . And on top of that with blackjack rather then any other game pays 2-3 so if you do get blackjack on one of your larger bets say you lost 4 in a row your 5th bet would be way more then the original . There was some times that i walked in a go bust 6 7 hands and out but over my amount of time/earnings i think this has paid off a few more then not cause there was bunch of 300 walks that i just left after you hit your number but always gotta bring more say you wanna win 100 need atleast 500 and no more do that few times and stay focused and determined and no matter how hot table is get out if you have your number !! Your not playing for luck your playing for quick basic consistent money.

Quote: ikilledjerrylogan

I can double this in the currency markets in 6 months but it probably won't be as fun as losing it in half the time with your martingale. Must be nice.

Could a person double 1000 in just six months? Is it difficult? I wanna try this..

Quote: mikemartingale

If you promise not to double down and split I might be interested in taking your action, I have a feeling quite a few people would want a piece. (of course there are legality issues)

Where were you planning on doing this? At the least, I would like to observe this.

I have seen guys say, they were going to do this. But, once they have to put a huge bet out, reality sets in and they then realize they might actually lose and chicken out. it It is fun with fake chips for them, because they really have nothing to risk.

.
the martingale - never mind the blackjack part of it - let's think of it with another bet such as Pass at craps

everybody knows you can't win in the long run with it - eventually you'll hit a losing streak that makes the next bet unreachable with your bankroll or over the house limit

but let's consider the reverse martingale

you keep doubling your bet until you lose

you're going to lose quick every single time you play

you're forcing the house to play a martingale

who is going to believe that the house is ever going to lose in their martingale that you're forcing on them________?

assuming that you start with a small bet such as $10 - who's going to believe that they're ever going to run out of money to fund your bet_____?

come on - let's get serious


if you've won 10 times in a row and the table limit is $5,000 you can move your bet to the bacc tables

and then when you're over that limit you can go the stock market and bet on binary options - there is no limit there

the house is in big, big trouble with the martingale you've forced on them - _________rotflmao

.

It doesn't work. There are no systems that work.