Quote:darkozQuote:AlanMendelsonI'm curious. Is hole carding mathematically based? Is edge sorting mathematically based?

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Are you serious?

Phil Ivey edge was supposed to be about +31% or thereabouts.

It was substantial enough that a judge (although I personally disagree) believed his edge violated his unwritten contract with the casino. (The implications that the casino must maintain it's edge are mind boggling but that's for a different thread.)

Not only is hole carding and edge sorting mathematical, I am certain the math geniuses on here can give you exact numbers as to player edge.

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Yes I'm serious because I dont know if its considered mathematical.

No need to get in a twist.

Quote:AlanMendelsonI'm curious. Is hole carding mathematically based? Is edge sorting mathematically based?

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Yes.

Basic strategy for any card game is mathematically based.

The math - and strategy - changes if you have hole card or next card information.

A person's gotta make a living

Quote:MDawgWhen I play table games my objective is winning, not comps. If I win quickly, I leave. If it takes a long time to win, so be it. But once I get to or near a goal I am done.

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This statement is in direct contradiction to nearly every claim that you have made even within the last few pages of this thread that you gamble only for theoretical losses!!!!!

This isn't calling you a liar. This is you literally calling yourself out!!!!

Quote:MDawgWhen I play table games my objective is winning, not comps. If I win quickly, I leave. If it takes a long time to win, so be it. But once I get to or near a goal I am done.

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Quote:MDawg...On the other hand, massive comps via theo play are quite doable without losing much or by winning.

"...In either case, the blowout quick loser of 100K isn't going to be welcome at the casino for too many days, his comps will run out pretty fast."

"On the other hand, a player like me, might play for hours and hours over days on end at a good high average and say, end up winning $20K or whatever (or more, really the dollar amount of the win is irrelevant), or even just break even, and amass an incredible sum in Theo loss..."

"So when we are talking about RFB / spa type comps, or even any comps, as far as sustainability on both your pocketbook and even in terms of getting enough comps to carry a long stay, CONSISTENT PLAY THAT GENERATES THEO is the only feasible way to do it."

As far as GETTING the offers, casino marketing doesn't care if you arrived at them via actual or theo loss. As long as you are still a player in good standing who has put in the play you'll keep getting offers."

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Table games specifically Baccarat and Blackjack are comped exactly as MDawg has explained and his playway is not a contradiction to his statements, but rather part of his explanation.

A winning player's primary goal is winning money, not Theo-loss comps. Comps are merely icing on the cake. That would be like saying, " I'm playing to lose so that I can get comps ! ". Due to variance he will win faster or slower depending on the correlation between his playway and the composition of the shoe / shoes in a given session. When he wins his goal quickly, he is done . He's plus cash but with little or no comp value having achieved his $$$$ goal.

If he wins at a much slower rate, he wins both cash and significant Theo comp value. Cha-ching $$$$ times two $$$$.

If he has a quick blow-out he loses cash and gets little or no theo-loss comps, but if he loses slowly over a longer session with high stakes bets he gets significant Theo-comp value to possibly offset a good portion of his actual loss for that session.

A long term winning player " expects" occasional setback losses but knows they will be overcome by many more susequent winning sessions.

In regards to idea of being undercomped , I am not sure how other game players such as slots for example evaluate or define their winnings in terms of cash, comps or both. Also, I've wondered if these winnings / comps are diluted by dividing them among multiple players required to obtain their goals as opposed to one player winning all cash and comps for himself.

In this case I have never seen any player receive more comps in any form or win as much ( being ahead ) over the time discussed than the subject of this discussion.

I think MDawg is doing a great job so far and all of his staements, answers and explanations are 100% accurate in my experience.

Quote:cwwbjrhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYe8cGy9TeI

A long term winning player " expects" occasional setback losses but knows they will be overcome by many more susequent winning sessions.

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Unless using an advantage, simply playing subsequent sessions doesn't work.

Long term winning players? Against -EV?

Saying things like "you only play for theoretical losses" is one of the most conflicting illogical statements I have ever heard. How would one do that? And why would it matter if I showed losses or did not show losses, as these would not affect the end theoretical loss anyway.

Quote:cwwbjrhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYe8cGy9TeI

Table games specifically Baccarat and Blackjack are comped exactly as MDawg has explained and his playway is not a contradiction to his statements, but rather part of his explanation.

A winning player's primary goal is winning money, not Theo-loss comps. Comps are merely icing on the cake. That would be like saying, " I'm playing to lose so that I can get comps ! ". Due to variance he will win faster or slower depending on the correlation between his playway and the composition of the shoe / shoes in a given session. When he wins his goal quickly, he is done . He's plus cash but with little or no comp value having achieved his $$$$ goal.

If he wins at a much slower rate, he wins both cash and significant Theo comp value. Cha-ching $$$$ times two $$$$.

If he has a quick blow-out he loses cash and gets little or no theo-loss comps, but if he loses slowly over a longer session with high stakes bets he gets significant Theo-comp value to possibly offset a good portion of his actual loss for that session.

A long term winning player " expects" occasional setback losses but knows they will be overcome by many more susequent winning sessions.

In regards to idea of being undercomped , I am not sure how other game players such as slots for example evaluate or define their winnings in terms of cash, comps or both. Also, I've wondered if these winnings / comps are diluted by dividing them among multiple players required to obtain their goals as opposed to one player winning all cash and comps for himself.

In this case I have never seen any player receive more comps in any form or win as much ( being ahead ) over the time discussed than the subject of this discussion.

I think MDawg is doing a great job so far and all of his staements, answers and explanations are 100% accurate in my experience.

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Exactly. And the danger of "playing for comps" is that you might end up losing over putting in the hours the host expects.

Over time it evens out anyway. There will be days when I win fast and leave, and others when it might take quite a while to get ahead.

Quote:MDawg

Saying things like "you only play for theoretical losses" is one of the most conflicting illogical statements I have ever heard. How would one do that? And why would it matter if I showed losses or did not show losses, as these would not affect the end theoretical loss anyway.

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Quote:MDawg

So when we are talking about RFB / spa type comps, or even any comps, as far as sustainability on both your pocketbook and even in terms of getting enough comps to carry a long stay, consistent play that generates theo is the only feasible way to do it.

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So which is it? Is playing a consistent"play that generated Theo is the only feasible way to do it"

Or is playing for theoretical losses a conflicting illogical statement.?

You made both conflicting statements above.

Quote:MDawgQuote:cwwbjrhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYe8cGy9TeI

Table games specifically Baccarat and Blackjack are comped exactly as MDawg has explained and his playway is not a contradiction to his statements, but rather part of his explanation.

In this case I have never seen any player receive more comps in any form or win as much ( being ahead ) over the time discussed than the subject of this discussion.

I think MDawg is doing a great job so far and all of his staements, answers and explanations are 100% accurate in my experience.

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Exactly. And the danger of "playing for comps" is that you might end up losing over putting in the hours the host expects.

Over time it evens out anyway. There will be days when I win fast and leave, and others when it might take quite a while to get ahead.

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I nominate this for the dumbest post of the year!!Quote:AlanMendelsonI'm curious. Is hole carding mathematically based? Is edge sorting mathematically based?

I understand that card counting is mathematically based.

I'm sure Mdawg has a sound method of winning. Other APs dont reveal their tricks of the trade so why must Mdawg?

If Mdawg were winning only a few hundred dollars per session would there even be any uproar over his wins?

Theres an uproar only because he has a bigger bankroll.

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Quote:AxelWolfI nominate this for the dumbest post of the year!!Quote:AlanMendelsonI'm curious. Is hole carding mathematically based? Is edge sorting mathematically based?

I understand that card counting is mathematically based.

I'm sure Mdawg has a sound method of winning. Other APs dont reveal their tricks of the trade so why must Mdawg?

If Mdawg were winning only a few hundred dollars per session would there even be any uproar over his wins?

Theres an uproar only because he has a bigger bankroll.

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It is beyond stunning that someone could be involved in gaming/casino gambling for decades, be an active member of this forum for years, and actually ask if hole carding or edge sorting is ‘mathematically based’?!?!? That means literally reading these posts for YEARS and not even having the SLIGHTEST IDEA what is being talked about!!!! I’m flabbergasted!!!!!

Quote:MDawgIt's pointless to discuss theoretical losses with someone who doesn't seem to understand what theo loss even is.

Saying things like "you only play for theoretical losses" is one of the most conflicting illogical statements I have ever heard. How would one do that? And why would it matter if I showed losses or did not show losses, as these would not affect the end theoretical loss anyway.

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Someone (I assume DarkOz) has complained that I have stated that DarkOz "doesn't seem to understand what theo loss even is."

So, without going back and forth, this is how I read this post, and I invite someone like say, SooPoo, to analyze DarkOz's post too as quoted in my post and tell me what he thinks it means.

I read it as saying that "MDawg avoids actual loss because he gets comp'ed more when he gets just theo loss."

Quote:darkozLet's say for argument sake that MDawg doesn't fake wins as much as hide losses.

His motivation? He claims he gets comped 35% of Theo as opposed to 10% of actual losses so he always makes certain to only have theoretical losses

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If I have read it wrong, then I apologize.

If I have read it right, then I respond as I did in the post itself, which is to say that to claim that avoiding actual loss impacts theo loss is to misunderstand how theo loss (or comps for that matter) are calculated or handed out. At the end of a trip, a host looks at actual loss (if any), and theo loss, and gives the player the greater of the two in terms of comps: 10% of actual loss or 35-40% of theo loss. Hence, trying to hide losses will not affect comps whatsoever, because if there are enough losses to get greater comps via that 10%, why not just let the actual loss stand? and if there are not enough losses such that 10% of actual loss will not equal greater comps than 35-40% of theo, then trying to hide the actual loss won't make any difference anyway.

Quote:AxelWolfI nominate this for the dumbest post of the year!!Quote:AlanMendelsonI'm curious. Is hole carding mathematically based? Is edge sorting mathematically based?

I understand that card counting is mathematically based.

I'm sure Mdawg has a sound method of winning. Other APs dont reveal their tricks of the trade so why must Mdawg?

If Mdawg were winning only a few hundred dollars per session would there even be any uproar over his wins?

Theres an uproar only because he has a bigger bankroll.

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Which part or is all of it the dumbest post of the year?

Quote:SOOPOOQuote:AxelWolfQuote:AlanMendelson

I understand that card counting is mathematically based.

I'm sure Mdawg has a sound method of winning. Other APs dont reveal their tricks of the trade so why must Mdawg?

If Mdawg were winning only a few hundred dollars per session would there even be any uproar over his wins?

Theres an uproar only because he has a bigger bankroll.

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It is beyond stunning that someone could be involved in gaming/casino gambling for decades, be an active member of this forum for years, and actually ask if hole carding or edge sorting is ‘mathematically based’?!?!? That means literally reading these posts for YEARS and not even having the SLIGHTEST IDEA what is being talked about!!!! I’m flabbergasted!!!!!

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Gosh I'm just so embarrassed. I didnt realize you needed to use math to edge sort cards or to see what card the dealer has.

You are soooooo much smarter than I am.

If you're going to make up a story, at least make it somewhat plausible

Anyway, I think there might be some who know exactly what these are but don't know how to do them or have never done them. In my book, action is what matters more than theory.

Quote:AlanMendelsonQuote:SOOPOOQuote:AxelWolfQuote:AlanMendelson

I understand that card counting is mathematically based.

I'm sure Mdawg has a sound method of winning. Other APs dont reveal their tricks of the trade so why must Mdawg?

If Mdawg were winning only a few hundred dollars per session would there even be any uproar over his wins?

Theres an uproar only because he has a bigger bankroll.

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It is beyond stunning that someone could be involved in gaming/casino gambling for decades, be an active member of this forum for years, and actually ask if hole carding or edge sorting is ‘mathematically based’?!?!? That means literally reading these posts for YEARS and not even having the SLIGHTEST IDEA what is being talked about!!!! I’m flabbergasted!!!!!

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Gosh I'm just so embarrassed. I didnt realize you needed to use math to edge sort cards or to see what card the dealer has.

You are soooooo much smarter than I am.

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Are you asking if you need math skills to perform edge sorting?

Or are you asking if edge sorting has a mathematical advantage?

Your question was is edge sorting "mathematically BASED". (bolding is mine).

Quote:darkozQuote:AlanMendelsonQuote:SOOPOOQuote:AxelWolfQuote:AlanMendelson

I understand that card counting is mathematically based.

I'm sure Mdawg has a sound method of winning. Other APs dont reveal their tricks of the trade so why must Mdawg?

If Mdawg were winning only a few hundred dollars per session would there even be any uproar over his wins?

Theres an uproar only because he has a bigger bankroll.

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It is beyond stunning that someone could be involved in gaming/casino gambling for decades, be an active member of this forum for years, and actually ask if hole carding or edge sorting is ‘mathematically based’?!?!? That means literally reading these posts for YEARS and not even having the SLIGHTEST IDEA what is being talked about!!!! I’m flabbergasted!!!!!

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Gosh I'm just so embarrassed. I didnt realize you needed to use math to edge sort cards or to see what card the dealer has.

You are soooooo much smarter than I am.

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Are you asking if you need math skills to perform edge sorting?

Or are you asking if edge sorting has a mathematical advantage?

Your question was is edge sorting "mathematically BASED". (bolding is mine).

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I didn't understand what math skills were involved in identifying a card.

If I saw a dealer had an ace of hearts do I need to know that's 1/52 cards?

If all spades are cut thru the diamonds on the back printing do I need to know there are 13 spades in a deck?

Once you see the card you can "do the math" as to possible expectancy.

Heck, I don't even PLAY bj and even I knew that.

Quote:MrVOF COURSE it is "Math based."

Once you see the card you can "do the math" as to possible expectancy.

Heck, I don't even PLAY bj and even I knew that.

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Obviously.

But as I said I dont need math to identify cards I see either because the dealer exposed them or they are marked or die cut.

Quote:AlanMendelsonQuote:MrVOF COURSE it is "Math based."

Once you see the card you can "do the math" as to possible expectancy.

Heck, I don't even PLAY bj and even I knew that.

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Obviously.

But as I said I dont need math to identify cards I see either because the dealer exposed them or they are marked or die cut.

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Again, you are confusing having to know and understand the math to perform the exercise versus the exercise being math based.

Does a stock trader need to understand the mathematics of dollar cost averaging or can he just do it when the price goes down?

You wouldn't ask a trader who just buys more shares of his stock whenever the price goes down if dollar cost averaging was math based, would you?

Hole carding and edge sorting are physical abilities. Either you can see it or you cant.

Yes, using that information is a mathematical process but seeing the cards isnt mathematical at all.

It's different with card counting in blackjack.

In blackjack the cards are readily exposed. You need to think quickly but you dont need the physical skills that you need in hole carding or edge sorting.

And once the cards are exposed in blackjack yes, you use math to figure the remaining cards.

I was mainly talking about the part where you said "I'm curious. Is hole carding mathematically based? Is edge sorting mathematically based?" The rest was kinda dumb as well.Quote:AlanMendelsonQuote:AxelWolfQuote:AlanMendelson

I understand that card counting is mathematically based.

I'm sure Mdawg has a sound method of winning. Other APs dont reveal their tricks of the trade so why must Mdawg?

If Mdawg were winning only a few hundred dollars per session would there even be any uproar over his wins?

Theres an uproar only because he has a bigger bankroll.

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Which part or is all of it the dumbest post of the year?

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For the most part, you don't need any Math skills to perform Advantage Plays, you just need to believe in the math, and of course, you need to have a way of knowing IF you have an advantage and what strategy you should be using. For example, I really don't need any math to know a screen full of wilds on a Scarab machine is a significant +EV situation.Quote:darkozQuote:AlanMendelsonQuote:SOOPOOMost of the time you dont needQuote:AxelWolfQuote:AlanMendelson

I understand that card counting is mathematically based.

I'm sure Mdawg has a sound method of winning. Other APs dont reveal their tricks of the trade so why must Mdawg?

If Mdawg were winning only a few hundred dollars per session would there even be any uproar over his wins?

Theres an uproar only because he has a bigger bankroll.

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It is beyond stunning that someone could be involved in gaming/casino gambling for decades, be an active member of this forum for years, and actually ask if hole carding or edge sorting is ‘mathematically based’?!?!? That means literally reading these posts for YEARS and not even having the SLIGHTEST IDEA what is being talked about!!!! I’m flabbergasted!!!!!

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Gosh I'm just so embarrassed. I didnt realize you needed to use math to edge sort cards or to see what card the dealer has.

You are soooooo much smarter than I am.

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Are you asking if you need math skills to perform edge sorting?

Or are you asking if edge sorting has a mathematical advantage?

Your question was is edge sorting "mathematically BASED". (bolding is mine).

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Quote:MDawgSomeone (I assume DarkOz) has complained that I have stated that DarkOz "doesn't seem to understand what theo loss even is."

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I know both parties involved in the complaint and I can confidently say both would understand the basics of how casinos rate players, both by theo and actual loss. I suspect this whole feud is over a misunderstanding of DarkOz's post. Except under very limited and unusual tournament circumstances, a player playing the comp game would not want to hide losses, but rather hide wins. I'm quite sure DarkOz understands that and suspect there was a misunderstanding about what he was trying to say.

Quote:AlanMendelsonDarkoz I'm not confused about anything.

Hole carding and edge sorting are physical abilities. Either you can see it or you cant.

Yes, using that information is a mathematical process but seeing the cards isnt mathematical at all.

It's different with card counting in blackjack.

In blackjack the cards are readily exposed. You need to think quickly but you dont need the physical skills that you need in hole carding or edge sorting.

And once the cards are exposed in blackjack yes, you use math to figure the remaining cards.

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Alan, , you are trying to backtrack.

The conversation was you stating why do AP's feel they can win and yet question MDawg.

That implicitly is making the case that MDawg isn't and AP and not using a mathematically based system.

Then you asked if edge sorting or hole carding is BASED (Your word) on math.

You didn't ask if the person doing it needs math skills or to perform the math during the action. You were clearly asking if those two moves, edge sorting and hole carding are based on mathematical principles to prove your original point that MDawg may win without a math based advantage.

Which of course is backfiring on you because of course edge sorting and hole carding are possible to gain an advantage due to the math.

Quote:darkozQuote:AlanMendelsonDarkoz I'm not confused about anything.

Hole carding and edge sorting are physical abilities. Either you can see it or you cant.

Yes, using that information is a mathematical process but seeing the cards isnt mathematical at all.

It's different with card counting in blackjack.

In blackjack the cards are readily exposed. You need to think quickly but you dont need the physical skills that you need in hole carding or edge sorting.

And once the cards are exposed in blackjack yes, you use math to figure the remaining cards.

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Alan, , you are trying to backtrack.

The conversation was you stating why do AP's feel they can win and yet question MDawg.

That implicitly is making the case that MDawg isn't and AP and not using a mathematically based system.

Then you asked if edge sorting or hole carding is BASED (Your word) on math.

You didn't ask if the person doing it needs math skills or to perform the math during the action. You were clearly asking if those two moves, edge sorting and hole carding are based on mathematical principles to prove your original point that MDawg may win without a math based advantage.

Which of course is backfiring on you because of course edge sorting and hole carding are possible to gain an advantage due to the math.

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You win. You've successfully picked apart my post and came up with scenarios I never imagined.

I even got Ace to mention the 18 yos.

I hope you all enjoyed jumping all over me.

Quote:AlanMendelsonI hope you all enjoyed jumping all over me.

Really, you hope we enjoyed jumping all over you?

That's an odd way to look at things; what, do you also enjoy being jumped all over?

"Hit me" begged the masochist; "No," sneered the sadist.

As far as my take on the DarkOz/MDawg theo/actual loss comp chatter…. I am no expert on the matter. I do ‘think’ it is better to try and show an actual loss ‘in general’ than an actual win. But I also agree with MDawg that having a large theo loss is the surest way to get the big and continuing comps. Somewhere he mentioned ‘knowing the next card’ in both bac and BJ, so if he is playing with that advantage, his theo loss is in actuality a theo gain, so for HIM the more playing time the better, as both his wins AND comps increase with time.

As an advantage Player I know there may be reasons for an advantage Player to hide losses. I'm not saying that's what MDawg does because I don't know what he does in truth.

But he has a challenge to see his "wins" so I pointed out that hiding losses is possible.

One reason for hiding losses, although rare, is a casino comping their winners heavier (think of the scene from Casino where they wanted the high roller WINNER back asap)

Another might be trying to game Casino credit systems (which MDawg says he uses) as huge losses on paper might affect your ability to keep a credit line.

I'M NOT SAYING THAT IS WHAT HE DOES! I am just listing possibilities.

MDawg posted awhile ago that my $20,000 a week claim was probably me dragging in 2000 homeless people a week for $10 new members sign ups.

Clearly he has no clue what I do anymore than what I believe he does.

So I am willing to bury the hatchet and just leave it at that.

I do wish he would stop making Ploppy claims like he comes back the next day for a new session. As if Baccarat cards know it's a new day.

Just keep it real, MDawg!

the dispute exposes a weakness in the forum

the Wizard has provided a forum and he himself should be appreciated for that and for providing highly accurate info on the subject

but anyone - and many have - and not just in this thread - can come onto the forum and make outrageous claims without providing any logical explanation as to how their amazing winnings happened

GAMBLERS TALKING BIG_____________it's all over the web - a kind of infection

those doing this can only be questioned - they can't be spoken to harshly

and this makes sense - people should have freedom of speech - nobody should be silenced

so the forum becomes a mix of highly accurate info and dubious info - and someone new to gambling is not likely to be able to differentiate between the two

so, this place is not perfect - so what - neither is anything else in this world - I've been posting here for 7 years and I really appreciate what the Wizard has done here and I'm sure many others do

so, I will, like the old comic strip used to say, "grin and bear it"

I follow this thread somewhat by completely ignoring and not reading MDawg's posts (I've more than had my fill of the guy) and only reading the posts of others

works for me

.

Quote:AlanMendelsonQuote:MrVOF COURSE it is "Math based."

Once you see the card you can "do the math" as to possible expectancy.

Heck, I don't even PLAY bj and even I knew that.

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Obviously.

But as I said I dont need math to identify cards I see either because the dealer exposed them or they are marked or die cut.

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Indeed. You don't need to be able to derive basic strategy to be able to play it; they often sell cards in the gift shop.

At other gambling forums we have former and current WOV members who keep trying to report the person they think is MDawg to the authorities for who knows what. One person claims he reported MDawg to casinos because all his winning must be affecting the casino bottom line profits.

Another person claims he has emailed the casinos to report that MDawg must be cheating to win so much. The same person has posted suggesting that people turn MDawg into the IRS! Same person has recently posted step by step instructions to report MDawg to the State Bar - and this person claims to be a former attorney himself!

Another person has posted that he considered going after MDawg with a gun!

So we just have a lot of dangerous jealousy that cannot be indulged with any more information than is already out there.

It’s hard to know whom to trust and anyone who is asking for particulars on how exactly MDawg does it might be doing so on behalf of the lynching squad who apparently can’t stand it that anyone out there might be winning. And even if the requests for particulars are genuine with no nefarious intent, we must be aware that there are others watching who may not have such legitimate objectives.

There is no excuse for gun threats or outing to Casinos or attempts at debarment (or whatever it's officially called).

Posting extravagant lifestyle unfortunately brings out jealousy. That's why usually the guy in the Casinos with the most money is usually the one wearing plain blue jeans and a ball cap.

Quote:MDawgMaybe, but if you look closely that guy might be wearing a $150,000 stainless steel Patek Philippe.

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Until the call girl drugs his martini that evening,!

The New Millennium version of the Hooker's Handbook must include a visual guide to all watches valued at $20K and above. Even if they are not planning to steal it they want to know that their target has some means.

Quote:darkozPosting extravagant lifestyle unfortunately brings out jealousy.

But this isn't a casino, it is a forum made up of mostly savvy casino gamblers with an intolerance for perceived BS.

Substitute the term "perceived prevarication" for "extravagant claims" and the line is drawn.

For me, jealousy is a non-issue as I don't believe the claims made and besides, I am "quite comfortable, thank-you" when it comes to cash, bank accounts, real estate, mutual funds and IRA's / annuities: so why would I be jealous?

I can understand protecting free speech but must it be at the cost of this forum's continued credibility and viability?

I am sure the alligator shoes Ace2 mentioned would be high on the checklist.

Quote:MrVQuote:darkozPosting extravagant lifestyle unfortunately brings out jealousy.

But this isn't a casino, it is a forum made up of mostly savvy casino gamblers with an intolerance for perceived BS.

Substitute the term "perceived prevarication" for "extravagant claims" and the line is drawn.

For me, jealousy is a non-issue as I don't believe the claims made and besides, I am "quite comfortable, thank-you" when it comes to cash, bank accounts, real estate, mutual funds and IRA's / annuities: so why would I be jealous?

I can understand protecting free speech but must it be at the cost of this forum's continued credibility and viability?

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Mdawg is winning IMO and it’s pretty interesting to say the least. Or you can believe he’s not without understanding the entire play. It’s a free country

“It was all a dream, I used to read Word Up! magazine Salt-n-Pepa and Heavy D up in the limousine Hangin' pictures on my wall Every Saturday Rap Attack, Mr. Magic, Marley Marl I let my tape rock 'til my tape popped Smokin' weed in Bambu, sippin' on Private Stock Way back, when I had the red and black lumberjack With the hat to match Remember Rappin' Duke? Duh-ha, duh-ha”

Where would there be a high concentration in Vegas? Definitely not at Aria, where I’ve done most of my gambling in recent times

All the telltale signs, plunging necklines, fake boobs, short dresses, high heeled shoes, lack of any kind of high end watch (hadn't latched on to a guy who had bought her a Rolex or Cartier yet), minimal expensive jewelry but starting to build up a collection.

Golddiggers come in all ages but it seems like the most determined are in their thirties or forties.

In Vegas - well, each casino has its different style and motif. For example I'd say that at Cosmo people are trying to look trendy and at Wynn, rich. Probably there are more golddiggers at Wynn than at Cosmo but if you pass the sniff test (some women claim that they can simply smell money on a guy) you'll probably do well at either. Resorts World Vegas might be the new up and coming for gold diggers too, depending on where in the resort you are.

Quote:Ace2I love gold diggers. They’re using you and you’re using them…fair deal

Where would there be a high concentration in Vegas? Definitely not at Aria, where I’ve done most of my gambling in recent times

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If you're not finding the gold diggers at Aria, then try Jokers Wild, Skyline and Club Fortune.

Wynn would be too far…I’m generally staying within walking distance of Aria, which I consider ground zero. So many places in the immediate area. I do gamble/dine at Cosmo pretty often, though I rarely stay there. It’s way overpriced IMO

There are a lot of girls in Vegas who look like civilians who will "pop the question" of how much they want to be paid per day just to hang out with the guy. Of course, most likely these girls are not going to bother with anyone who doesn't look like he may afford them.

The gold diggers are more looking for what they can get, right? versus a per diem stipend.

When I was single, most of the girls I dated that I met in the casino itself were typically out of town college age girls, that is to say, girls who just happened to be in Vegas as tourists but were otherwise straight civilians. Some were casino workers, like dealers or VIP Services girls. And then I'd meet more than a few in regular places like working in stores. None of those girls were gold diggers, but obviously it made a difference that I wasn't just some guy flipping burgers at a fast food joint.

In the end it comes down to what you are looking for. When I met girls while traveling I was open to having a relationship with them, and sometimes it worked out.

Why would any man want to “hang out” with them for more than one hour?Quote:MDawg

There are a lot of girls in Vegas who look like civilians who will "pop the question" of how much they want to be paid per day just to hang out with the guy. ]

To spend a full day with me, she’d have to pay me $$$$$

But the higher end call girls who fly into town want to be paid for multi day engagements. A sort of a short term "always on call" arrangement.