Can Baccarat and Roulette Be Beaten
Quote: MDawgAs far as I may see,
how big is your edge?
I'm predicting:
you have a 22% edge over the house
I may be a little off but there is one thing everybody can agree on:
𝒀𝑶𝑼𝑹 𝑬𝑫𝑮𝑬 𝑰𝑺 𝑯𝑼𝑼𝑼𝑼𝑼𝑼𝑼𝑮𝑬
*
Quote: MDawg
More masked profanity. First day back, already breaking rules.
"Freaking" is a profanity?
You know the #@$$$ is something Mad magazine did to mask profanity.
The reason it works is because it becomes up to the reader to fill it in.
It isn't Axelwolf fault if you think of curse words. Fill in something else and you will feel better.
Imo, if it's good enough for Mad magazine, it's good enough here
Malone: You're a Treasury officer.
Ness: I just told you I was.
Malone: Who would claim to be that, who was not?
Looks like things got a little dull around here with us gone. You guys missed us, or what?
How is masking profanity breaking the rules? You are only back because I allowed it.Quote: MDawg
More masked profanity. First day back, already breaking rules.
18000 posts later and you still don't know the rules?
.Quote: MDawg
18000 posts later and you still don't know the rules?
I assume you and Axel have been suspended for thread hijacking? Or for too much whining? I am upset. I want MDawg in the stock threads. And Axel in the gambling/AP threads. And darkoz in the COVID and AP threads.
Time for a summary..
MDawg doesn’t believe Axel or darkoz
Axel doesn’t believe EB or MDawg
Darkoz doesn’t believe EB or MDawg
EB believes MDawg.
MDawg believes EB.
SOOPOO believes darkoz, kewlj, pokergrinder, and Axel
SOOPOO does not believe EB or MDawg
But.... EVERYONE believes SOOPOO! (I think?)
Edit... believes in regards to ability to ‘beat’ baccarat and roulette for my disbelief of EB and MDawg. I believe EB is a great cook. And MDawg has nice watches, etc...
Quote: MDawg
18000 posts later and you still don't know the rules?
I can't believe posters here are still Dawgin you the way they are
even after you have 𝐏𝐑𝐎𝐕𝐄𝐃 beyond a shadow of a doubt that you crush the house every single time you play
and you don't just crush the house - you crush them by a lot
if you think you are being treated unfairly you can always write some long PMs to the powers that be here
and that should do the trick
after all, you have 𝐑𝐈𝐆𝐇𝐓𝐒
it won't be long before everybody here respects and expresses admiration for your phenomenal talents
*
Quote: EvenBobI've never looked at this thread. Mdawg claims
he beats bac? So what, lots of people do.
I beat it. I don't play it because I don't like
the company at bac tables. The casino
wayyyyyy favors certain people from
certain places and lets them get away
with breaking every rule. Screw that.
I remember in 2008 went to Four Winds
on the MI border. It was only me and the
bac dealer, and one other. I said to her I'm
going to make my $100 goal and leave.
About 15 hands later I'm $100 ahead
and the dealer is staring at me. She leans
in and in a low voice says, my advice is
if you want to play here, don't tell the pit
what your win goal is and then do it.
You won't be playing for long.
The same thing happened at Soaring
Eagle. I was staying there and drinking
vodka and playing bac for fun with
$5 bets. I was stupidly talking to the
dealer about how easy bac is to beat
and then beating it. I was up $150
(on $5 bets) and it was just me playing
and one other and this nasty pit lady finally
told us they were closing the table. All
I was doing was winning.
So if bac is Mdawg's game I totally believe
him. Beating bac isn't that hard, you have
to know when to bet and when not to.
Some shoes are total no bet shoes,
that's another reason I don't play. I like
to get in and get out, I don't have time
for periods of waiting for bets to appear.
Does anybody really think some of those
big casinos in Macao that have 800 bac
tables, with 400 of them active at any
one time, doesn't have people there
that have beaten the game? Of course
they do, really really clever players you
will neve catch. It's much easier to play
roulette where nobody is even suspecting
you can beat it.
Serious question Bob. I would like to ask you, do you remember how much vodka you had to drink? Just curious?
Being as I work security and I'm familiar with these types of situations especially when they remove a patron when extremely intoxicated from the casino or when they have to back someone off because of complaints from other players.
Quote: Marcusclark66
Being as I work security and I'm familiar with these types of situations especially when they remove a patron when extremely intoxicated
I said I was removed? Really? That's
what you from my story? I asked
them to open the only bac table
they had, I won for a couple hours,
they got pissed and closed it down.
From that you got I was 'removed'?
They removed the table, not me.
Quote: EvenBobI said I was removed? Really? That's
what you from my story? I asked
them to open the only bac table
they had, I won for a couple hours,
they got pissed and closed it down.
From that you got I was 'removed'?
They removed the table, not me.
OMG, they didn't close the Bacc table because you won some $5 bets.
They work on schedules. Plain and simple. You stood past a shift.
I suppose that restaurant you wanted to eat at but said they were closing did so because they didn't want you eating all their food on a two for one discount day as well?
Quote: darkozOMG, they didn't close the Bacc table because you won some $5 bets.
They work on schedules. Plain and simple. You stood past a shift.
I suppose that restaurant you wanted to eat at but said they were closing did so because they didn't want you eating all their food on a two for one discount day as well?
You are absolutely correct. Most casinos do have schedules and they do close tables even if player or two are there playing. Unless it's a large high roller they will close the table. Some of the casinos under my brand as of covid-19 have only about 15 to 30 minutes past schedule even if there are high rollers playing. But prior to covid-19 they would keep the table open only when there was serious money on it, if it was not a 24-hour table.
Quote: Marcusclark66You are absolutely correct. Most casinos do have schedules and they do close tables even if player or two are there playing
Not the case in my instance. I asked
them to open the table, they saw
I was winning and was wasting
a dealers time, so they closed it.
Plain and simple.
Quote: EvenBobNot the case in my instance. I asked
them to open the table, they saw
I was winning and was wasting
a dealers time, so they closed it.
Plain and simple.
that is a fantasy even more fantastical than your fantasy that you can beat roulette
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Quote: MDawg
More masked profanity. First day back, already breaking rules.
That's a pretty famous song. It spent 6 weeks at #1. The profanity is in the lyric...
Quote: EvenBobNot the case in my instance. I asked
them to open the table, they saw
I was winning and was wasting
a dealers time, so they closed it.
Plain and simple.
You were wasting the dealers time because you were betting $5. They were making a whopping 5c/hand in expected profit off you.
Quote: DeMangoFor the 99% of us that don't recognize this "famous song", it is profanity. Harassment plain and simple.
You really never heard this song?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QK8mJJJvaes
The song is about spending $20 on bargains
"One man's trash is another man's come-up"
From the song.
Quote: DeMangoFor the 99% of us that don't recognize this "famous song", it is profanity. Harassment plain and simple.
It's so cute when people who are in the minority assume that they aren't.
Quote: EvenBobNot the case in my instance. I asked them to open the table, they saw I was winning and was wasting a dealers time, so they closed it. Plain and simple.
It is fascinating that you have such great insight into the motivations behind these types of business decisions. Especially when previous stories like this were so clearly wrong and you were unable to articulate some of the details.
Quote: rdw4potusIt's so cute when people who are in the minority assume that they aren't.
Really? you miss the point. Axel and a few others harass Mdawg on a constant basis. We know the math. We don't need the incessant bleating. 200 pages of bull feces day after day. GTF over it.
Quote: lilredroosterthat is a fantasy
I was there, why do you think
you know more about it than
I do. They opened it at my request,
saw it wasn't productive, and
closed it. I saw the whole process
unfold right in front of me. Were
you hiding somewhere, I didn't
see you.
Quote: sabreYou were wasting the dealers time because you were betting $5
WHATEVER the reason, they closed
it because they didn't like what I
was doing.
Quote: DeMangoReally? you miss the point. Axel and a few others harass Mdawg on a constant basis. We know the math. We don't need the incessant bleating. 200 pages of bull feces day after day. GTF over it.
Ah, yes, GTF. Because abbreviated profanity is better than redacted profanity.
Quote: DeMangoReally? you miss the point. Axel and a few others harass Mdawg on a constant basis. We know the math. We don't need the incessant bleating. 200 pages of bull feces day after day. GTF over it.
It might help your argument that Axel used masked profanity if you didn't tell them to GTF over it!
Quote: EvenBobWHATEVER the reason, they closed
it because they didn't like what I
was doing.
Yeah, playing $5 a hand on a table they had already planned to close at a particular time. Why is that interesting?
Quote: MDawgYes, this sort of thing irks me. When someone claims that something simply wasn't so. It's one thing to say that perhaps you misinterpreted what happened, quite another to call it fantasy. The former might lead to intelligent debate, while I see the latter as simply trolling.
If someone says the guy next to them was abducted via tractor beam through a skylight in the roof and the dealer shrugged and said "Happens all the time here." I'm pretty sure I can call that fantasy and not be trolling.
EvenBob's story isn't far off from this.
Quote: sabreYeah, playing $5 a hand on a table they had already planned to close at a particular time. Why is that interesting?
MY GOD, it wasn't OPEN to begin
with, I opened it. They said sure,
we'll pull a dealer off a dead table
and open it for the sucker. They
had no 'plans' to close it at a
particular time. I guarantee if
I was losing $200 an hour it
would have stayed open till
shift change.
I feel that everyone's intelligence is being insulted and trolled when some people post.Quote: DeMangoReally? you miss the point. Axel and a few others harass Mdawg on a constant basis. We know the math. We don't need the incessant bleating. 200 pages of bull feces day after day. GTF over it.
What's the difference between abbreviating profanity and masking it?
Quote: DeMangoReally? you miss the point. Axel and a few others harass Mdawg on a constant basis. We know the math. We don't need the incessant bleating. 200 pages of bull feces day after day. GTF over it.
I would turn that around. Where you say "harass" I say "correct" or "challenge". I firmly believe that is every advantage player, math guy and just players that know and believe in the real math's responsibility to do so.
So who is it that creates the 200 pages of these math defying claims? Each and every time Mdawg, or someone like him, makes such a claim, we have the right to say nope, doesn't work that way.
This is hypothetical, I am not calling anyone specific a liar, but if a guy repeats something that isn't true 1000 times, and people challenge that 100 times, that is how a lie becomes accepted as the truth. And people with this agenda (again, not speaking of anyone specifically) know this and that is their game plan. That is precisely why you read the same fallacy over and over and over for hundred's of pages. Say it enough times and it becomes so. Well some of us are saying "not on our watch". :)
Quote: EvenBobWere
you hiding somewhere, I didn't
see you.
I saw you
right here on this forum
many times
stoking your fantastical fantasy that you can beat roulette
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Quote: MDawgHe's saying he's done it, that's all
He's entitled to his opinion, even
if's a broken record. He's trying
to convince himself, not me.
Quote: EvenBobHe's trying
to convince himself, not me.
I was convinced long, long, ago
and I don't care about convincing you
I want to make sure that any newbie gamblers who happen onto this thread know that you're posting a fantasy
so they don't get sucked into believing they can beat roulette with bet selection and get hurt financially in the process
*
Quote: lilredroosterII want to make sure that any newbie gamblers who happen onto this thread know that you're posting a fantasy
So you're performing a public service,
then. I haven't heard that one before.
You're kinda like a gambling superhero.
lol
something wrong with get the fudge? We can all pull an axel if we choose.Quote: darkozIt might help your argument that Axel used masked profanity if you didn't tell them to GTF over it!
I think that was one of the original goals Mike had in mind when he started this site.Quote: EvenBobSo you're performing a public service,
then. I haven't heard that one before.
You're kinda like a gambling superhero.
lol
When someone claims a casino is cheating, forum members insist that it takes a zillion trials or so before any person can develop confidence that a game is crooked. But when someone posts that they have been winning consistently at Bac or roulette over a hundred hours, why does everyone puff up in indignation and say that its mathematically impossible? Those are inconsistent reactions.
If Phil Ivey had gotten on this forum and posted that he was winning consistently at a table game (without revealing why), you guys would have busted a blood vessel telling him it was BS and that he was either a liar or delusional. Isn't that so? Wouldn't you have done that?
Quote: gordonm888If EB says he has been winning at Baccarat, great. If he feels like he can beat it, fine. Why does everyone have to be so insistent that EB is wrong, lying or delusional?
When someone claims a casino is cheating, forum members insist that it takes a zillion trials or so before any person can develop confidence that a game is crooked. But when someone posts that they have been winning consistently at Bac or roulette over a hundred hours, why does everyone puff up in indignation and say that its mathematically impossible? Those are inconsistent reactions.
If Phil Ivey had gotten on this forum and posted that he was winning consistently at a table game (without revealing why), you guys would have busted a blood vessel telling him it was BS and that he was either a liar or delusional. Isn't that so? Wouldn't you have done that?
Cool your Jets, Gordon! EB has not just beaten baccarat, he has slayed roulette as well. Over a lifetime of frequent casino forays. Both are actually easy according to him. But he does not care about the money... but is so good they close $5 roulette tables once he starts betting.
We disbelieve people who do not provide a reasonable explanation, or even at least aver they HAVE a reasonable explanation.
I’m serious.... if someone posted.... I can beat baccarat but I don’t feel comfortable sharing how... then that would be MORE believable than the answers we have gotten here from our baccarat crushers.
Quote: gordonm888
If Phil Ivey had gotten on this forum and posted that he was winning consistently
That is such a good story. He
had the casino stack the deck
for him and then continued
to use the same deck to win
millions. They just settled out
of court after 8 years of
litigation.
Quote: SOOPOObut is so good they close $5 roulette tables once he starts betting.
How come nobody gets that
story. It wasn't because I was
'so good', it was because she
opened the table for me and
I was winning and she needed
the dealer at a more productive
table. If I had been losing $200
an hour an hour she would have
kept it open. I'm sure she believed
if she had let me play a few more
hours I would have lost it all back.
Quote: AxelWolfI think that was one of the original goals Mike had in mind when he started this site.
No offense to Mike, but he seems to have changed since then. I think he has adopted a little Doris Day "whatever will be...will be" attitude. (not meant as insult) lol.
Recently Mike asked me why I was so bothered by such claims. I wonder just the opposite...why he, a math guy and expert ISN'T more concerned with such claims?
And that is why I was very pleased what was it December, just before Xmas when Mike said he wanted to witness some of Mdawgs play, that "it was time to put up or shut up".
Unfortunately he seems to have been talked out of that or lost interest and slipped back into Que Sera, Sera mode. LOL
Quote: gordonm888If Phil Ivey had gotten on this forum and posted that he was winning consistently at a table game (without revealing why), you guys would have busted a blood vessel telling him it was BS and that he was either a liar or delusional. Isn't that so? Wouldn't you have done that?
With Phil Ivey saying nothing, the reasons he was able to millions at baccarat were revealed within a couple years. It was eventually reveled to be something that could be explained and articulated. If he had been running his mouth about consistent wins, it would have come out even sooner. EB has been claiming to win consistently for a few decades, yet cannot move past $5 bets, and he has been completely unable to describe his strategy. That is far different than the Ivey story.
He is also claiming lots of people beat these table games. EB may truly not care about money, and might want to keep his strategy quiet, but how is it possible for there to be both lots of people beating this game, and not a single person who can explain the methods? The inconsistencies in his claims could only be achieved through some level of dishonest reporting.
Just bang on the hood or kick the furnace.
And the reason the joke is funny is because sometimes it has worked for all of us. We get pissed a car won't start and we bang the hood or kick that furnace and suddenly VROOOM.
Imagine if this was a forum for mechanics and furnace repair men and there were posters claiming they regularly fixed cars and furnaces by these methods. They even made a decent living charging customers for them to bang on their hoods and presto, car fixed.
And they pointed to the times it has occurred to all of us as proof this was a viable method and one that always worked and that was so easy it solved all problems.
Then they voiced how stupid traditional mechanics were for even opening the hoods because a real professional could fix it their way.
And the forum owner said if these mechanics claim they can fix cars and fix furnaces just by banging and kicking on them that should not be challenged.
Quote: EvenBobIf I had been losing $200 an hour an hour she would have kept it open.
There is no casino that cares about the results of a single $5 bettor. If there was a level that would have kept the table open, it would have been based around expected value, not the actual results. If you were betting at a level that indicated a $200 loss of expected value (about $150 to $200 per spin at single zero roulette), that might have made a difference. If there is any accuracy in your reporting of this scenario, it means the table was closed because you were betting too small, not because you were winning.
Quote: TomGEB has been claiming to win consistently for a few decades
Nope, not even close.
Quote:yet cannot move past $5 bets,
Inaccurate reporting, just what you
accuse me of.
Quote: TomGit means the table was closed because you were betting too small, not because you were winning.
You obviously have no idea how
sweaty some Indian casinos are.
Every nickel every dime, they
sweat it. Especially this casino.
For 10 years they were the 800
pound gorilla, tribe members
were getting $8000 a month.
Then all these other casinos
starting popping up and their
checks went down down down.
Last I heard they were under
$1K a month. They consider
any winning player a threat
to their bottom line. It's why
they got rid of bac entirely,
they can't afford a lucky player
or a skilled one to come along
and leave with a 5 figure win.
