Negroni
Negroni
Joined: Sep 8, 2020
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September 8th, 2020 at 11:10:03 PM permalink
Hello Wizard and all!


I'm new here, i hope you won't see it rude i start with so many questions and such a big post 🙏

I Was looking for answers for big questions for unusual gambling scenario i got into , and that place seems the only place in the net that will give me professional logic answers with integrity.

As recent events in Asia, there are people that selling there account in 40%-50% of what is worth.

As a group we just bough big account and we desperate for getting our chances better as possible.
(we profitable already so far but scared that we might wipe it out )



There are few Restrictions :

1.you not allow to cash out the chips you bought, you must play with them only and keep them in the casino, only the positive allowed to be cash out daily.

2.what ever you win in the day, you can cash out.

3.you allow to cash out once in 24 hours.

4.Min bet 500usd, Max 50,000usd
Total amonth bought 200,000 usd.

5. can play Baccarat only.



My questions :

1.any preferred gambling strategy for that scenario?
(Oscar, D'Alembert ect.)

2.what should be my daily goal?

3.what is my maximum daily loses should be?

4.what should be my unit size if I want to make around 10,000-20,000 usd profit per day?

5.what the edge for the long run is on for me? And if so, what is it?

Thanks for the reading so far.
Will highly appreciate your thoughts on this.

P.S
3.5 % of profits going to our families feeding foundations in the south of a Asia
So there is a good cause here as well 😁

If there is someone that can suggest consult with payment that will be great as well.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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September 8th, 2020 at 11:14:41 PM permalink
Quote: Negroni

Hello Wizard and all!


I'm new here, i hope you won't see it rude i start with so many questions and such a big post 🙏

I Was looking for answers for big questions for unusual gambling scenario i got into , and that place seems the only place in the net that will give me professional logic answers with integrity.

As recent events in Asia, there are people that selling there account in 40%-50% of what is worth.

As a group we just bough big account and we desperate for getting our chances better as possible.
(we profitable already so far but scared that we might wipe it out )



There are few Restrictions :

1.you not allow to cash out the chips you bought, you must play with them only and keep them in the casino, only the positive allowed to be cash out daily.

2.what ever you win in the day, you can cash out.

3.you allow to cash out once in 24 hours.

4.Min bet 500usd, Max 50,000usd
Total amonth bought 200,000 usd.

5. can play Baccarat only.



My questions :

1.any preferred gambling strategy for that scenario?
(Oscar, D'Alembert ect.)

2.what should be my daily goal?

3.what is my maximum daily loses should be?

4.what the edge for the long run is on for me? And if so, what is it?

Thanks for the reading so far.
Will highly appreciate your thoughts on this.

P.S
3.5 % of profits going to our families feeding foundations in the south of a Asia
So there is a good cause here as well 😁

If there is someone that can suggest consult with payment that will be great as well.

Can you explain what you mean by buy an account?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Negroni
Negroni
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September 8th, 2020 at 11:18:15 PM permalink
Basically I buying someone chips that he can't realse from the janket.

Hard to explain the reason but basically i bought the 100,000 usd in 50,000 usd.
sabre
sabre
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September 9th, 2020 at 12:14:01 AM permalink
Just flat bet $500 a hand on banker until you've converted all the dead chips to cashable chips, cash them out, and never return

Why would you need a system?
Why would you have a daily goal?
Why would you have a max daily loss?
Why are you talking about daily profits?

The chips are worth about 97.63% of face value according to https://wizardofodds.com/gambling/promotional-chips/
Negroni
Negroni
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September 9th, 2020 at 12:24:23 AM permalink
I can't convert them.

It's will give me to cash out only my positive from the day.
sabre
sabre
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September 9th, 2020 at 12:32:22 AM permalink
I have no idea what you're talking about then. I assumed you meant when you bet the dead chip you receive a cashable chip if you win, keeping the dead chip to bet again. If you lose you lose the dead chip.

If it's some other bizarre thing then you probably got ripped off.
OnceDear
OnceDear
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September 9th, 2020 at 1:14:28 AM permalink
Quote: Negroni

Hello Wizard and all!


I'm new here, i hope you won't see it rude i start with so many questions and such a big post 🙏


Hi and welcome to the forum. You are only allowed one user Id here, so I disabled the other one created at the same time from the same IP address.

I've no problem with the long post, though it's a bit ambiguous. Do I understand that for any winning day, you can cash out your profit but only your profit. If you made one single wager of $10,000 on a winning even money bet, do you get to cash out $10,000 and get to keep the stake chip as well?

If you do get to keep the stake chip, then I estimate your return >90% of the nominal account value. If they retain the stake chip, return is under 50%

Not going to analyse further until you explain further.

Methinks you should have done the maths before buying the 'accounts'. I reckon you got ripped off.
Last edited by: OnceDear on Sep 9, 2020
Beware. The earth is NOT flat. Hit and run is NOT a winning strategy: Pressing into trends is NOT a winning strategy: Progressive betting systems are NOT a winning strategy: Don't Buy It! .Don't even take it for free.
Negroni
Negroni
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September 9th, 2020 at 1:59:25 AM permalink
Quote: sabre

I have no idea what you're talking about then. I assumed you meant when you bet the dead chip you receive a cashable chip if you win, keeping the dead chip to bet again. If you lose you lose the dead chip.

If it's some other bizarre thing then you probably got ripped off.



We haven't been rip off.
That for sure. 😊
OnceDear
OnceDear
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September 9th, 2020 at 2:15:18 AM permalink
Quote: Negroni

We haven't been rip off.
That for sure. 😊

Why don't you answer the simple questions that would enable us to give you the analysis that you asked for?
Beware. The earth is NOT flat. Hit and run is NOT a winning strategy: Pressing into trends is NOT a winning strategy: Progressive betting systems are NOT a winning strategy: Don't Buy It! .Don't even take it for free.
Negroni
Negroni
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September 9th, 2020 at 2:47:45 AM permalink
Hi there!
Sorry for the double account I just didn't want my full name here and it's can't be changed.
My apologies.

So basically if we get to the table with 100,000 worth of chips,
If we betting and getting to 110, 00 i can leave with only the 10,000 cash (might need to commsion 5% for all)
The other 100,000 stay in the account.

If I lose and reach 80,000 $ meaning I lost 20,000 i need to pay to the chip owner account 50% meaning 10,000$.

I know it's sound rip off, but that happened due account that can't and don't play anymore
The deal isn't from the casino its from the account chip owner.

We already done it before and earn pretty good money, that unique opportunity,but I wanted to make our profit even better.

Hope I made myself clear, as you probably noticed English isn't my first language.
Negroni
Negroni
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September 9th, 2020 at 3:57:43 AM permalink
Did i miss any of your questions?
Zcore13
Zcore13
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September 9th, 2020 at 4:43:20 AM permalink
Seems that he keeps the played chip if he wins, but can't cash it. Bet $100,000, lose $51,500, win $49,500, which is cashable, and still have $49,500 to play with. Even money after $50,000 purchase expense and all future wins are profit.

Someone either has a really good thing going and doesn't know it or is about to offer some action.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
OnceDear
OnceDear
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September 9th, 2020 at 4:55:25 AM permalink
Quote: Zcore13


Someone either has a really good thing going and doesn't know it or is about to offer some action.
ZCore13

I suspect the latter.

OP, is this a bricks and mortar casino? Or online?
Any reason you cannot wager the entire balance over the course of one day, say 100 wagers, each with 1% of the virtual chips? Or does account get re-credited with any cash winnings after each hand and only any end of of day profit is removable?
Beware. The earth is NOT flat. Hit and run is NOT a winning strategy: Pressing into trends is NOT a winning strategy: Progressive betting systems are NOT a winning strategy: Don't Buy It! .Don't even take it for free.
Negroni
Negroni
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September 9th, 2020 at 6:14:53 AM permalink
Real mortar casino.
We allow tp cash out only once in a day and only on our profit
beachbumbabs
Administrator
beachbumbabs
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September 9th, 2020 at 6:41:12 PM permalink
Welcome, negroni.imo you're doing pretty well with the English, so let's keep refining.

Ok, so: You paid 50k to "purchase"100k in play.

Day 1. Starting bankroll: $100k You play, End the Session $120k. You cash out $20k.

Day 2. Starting bankroll: $100k. You play, end the session $80k. You pay someone (account owner?) $10k back into the bankroll. He puts the other $10k back in from what you paid for the account up front?

Day 3. Starting bankroll $xxxk? Restored to 100k? Starting at 90k? Starting at 80k?

What I think you've described so far is, you get the use of the 100k for 50% of value.

You cash out 100% of positive play in a day.

You owe further, 50% of losses end of day.

The bankroll stays refreshed at 100k, half from you, half from the owner. He got half his value up front. But where does he get the rest of his value out? I realize his bankroll is trapped from him somehow, but is that money ever able to be withdrawn?
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
Negroni
Negroni
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Thanks for this post from:
beachbumbabs
September 9th, 2020 at 7:58:27 PM permalink
Thanks Beachbumbabs.

The bankroll isn't stays refreshed at 100k, the 100k
Is the total amonth I have this deal for (I might be able to get more in the future but for now it's only 100k)
So for your example it's start at 80k after I pay him 10k

The first money can never be able to return, so must be play untill its wipe out completely.
Negroni
Negroni
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September 14th, 2020 at 9:01:00 AM permalink
Any way you guys csn help me out?

Unless you have more things i need to clear out 😁
billryan
billryan
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Thanks for this post from:
SOOPOO
September 14th, 2020 at 10:26:32 AM permalink
If I were in your circumstances, I'd try to see what someone would pay to take it over. Turn your 50K into 80K and never look back.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
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September 14th, 2020 at 10:35:10 AM permalink
Sadly, it is still not clear what the rules are.

Answer these questions, and maybe it will become clear. Forget table limits; it is the concept that matters.

1. If you bet $100k on one hand of player, and win, and do not gamble any more, what happens?
2. If you bet $100k on one hand of player, and lose, and do not gamble any more, what happens?
Romes
Romes
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September 14th, 2020 at 10:38:20 AM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

Sadly, it is still not clear what the rules are.

Answer these questions, and maybe it will become clear. Forget table limits; it is the concept that matters.

1. If you bet $100k on one hand of player, and win, and do not gamble any more, what happens?
2. If you bet $100k on one hand of player, and lose, and do not gamble any more, what happens?

Sounds like:
1. He wins $100k in real value (cash/real chips/whatever) that he can cash out. The promotional chips stay and don't convert. So now he has $100k in promo chips, and $100k in cash he can cash out over however long it takes to cash out with the daily limits.

2. He loses the promotional chips, AND must pay "someone" else $50k in real cash.

3. Don't forget he already paid $50k upfront for the $100k in chips though. Thus in (2) losing and paying only $50k, he already also paid $50k for the chips, so still down $100k.


I may have misread quickly, but it sounds like there isn't an edge. It sounds like you're paying $50k for $100k in PROMOTIONAL CHIPS that are worth 50% face value, since they can never be cashed out. Thus, you paid $50k for an expected value of $50k... BUT you have to play them through a game with a house edge. Thus, it just sounds like a good way for the casino to enforce that you play at least $50k through on their casino games.

Example...

- Pay $50k, get $100k in promotional chips.
- Play a $10k chip... if you a) win - you win $10k - house edge. Lose, if you lose you lose the chip AND owe $5k. Remember the chip (since it can't be converted) is only worth $5k off the top. Thus, when you lose $10k chip, you really do lose $10k in value... again, minus the House Edge (so a little more).

Thus, to me it looks like you're just gambling with no real added value.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
Negroni
Negroni
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September 14th, 2020 at 11:35:13 AM permalink
Will try to make it clear 😁

1.i get 100k.
2.i lose 100k, if i cash out i need to pay only 55k
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
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September 14th, 2020 at 12:05:40 PM permalink
Quote: Negroni

Will try to make it clear 😁

1.i get 100k.
2.i lose 100k, if i cash out i need to pay only 55k



You are NOT fully answering!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you saying to question 1, "I cash out for $100k, but have made a profit of $50k because I already had to pay $50k for the chips. I (do?) or (do not?) still have the $100k in promotional chips and can make more bets?

2. HOW CAN YOU CASH OUT IF YOU LOST THE BET???????

WHY CAN"T YOU CLEARLY TELL US THE TERMS????????????

We are trying to help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Negroni
Negroni
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September 14th, 2020 at 12:38:48 PM permalink
No no...
I pay only after half, not 50% before

Only 55% after
Negroni
Negroni
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September 14th, 2020 at 1:14:08 PM permalink
Cash out meaning i stop playing during this game.
No pay up infont, just after.
Brami11
Brami11
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September 15th, 2020 at 12:28:16 PM permalink
Thankyou your information
Brami11
Brami11
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September 15th, 2020 at 12:28:51 PM permalink
Yoour trik?
OnceDear
OnceDear
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Thanks for this post from:
AxelWolfRomes
September 15th, 2020 at 2:47:27 PM permalink
Brami11 and his two other Id's nuked. I don't yet know what mischief they had in mind. Stooges in a long con?
Beware. The earth is NOT flat. Hit and run is NOT a winning strategy: Pressing into trends is NOT a winning strategy: Progressive betting systems are NOT a winning strategy: Don't Buy It! .Don't even take it for free.
Negroni
Negroni
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September 17th, 2020 at 6:04:06 PM permalink
I have no idea what happened here....

Did you guys really don't understand or just think I'm kind of a scammer?
unJon
unJon
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September 17th, 2020 at 8:54:52 PM permalink
Quote: Negroni

I have no idea what happened here....

Did you guys really don't understand or just think I'm kind of a scammer?

I thought you were a scammer. You never answered the various questions that would let people analyze the situation.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
sabre
sabre
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September 17th, 2020 at 11:26:46 PM permalink
Quote: Negroni

I have no idea what happened here....

Did you guys really don't understand or just think I'm kind of a scammer?



I don't know if it's a language barrier or what but you've been completely unable to describe the promotion for which you're seeking analysis.
Negroni
Negroni
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September 18th, 2020 at 2:21:43 AM permalink
How can I be a scammer if I can't offer you even something?
When I will then try to suspect but I won't.

It's easy to understand...
I get chips, in the end of the day of betting, if I lose
I pay only 55% from what I lost.

If I win, I get 95% from the wining.

Can do that once in 24 hours
Mission146
Mission146 
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September 18th, 2020 at 5:06:24 AM permalink
Quote: Negroni

How can I be a scammer if I can't offer you even something?
When I will then try to suspect but I won't.

It's easy to understand...
I get chips, in the end of the day of betting, if I lose
I pay only 55% from what I lost.

If I win, I get 95% from the wining.

Can do that once in 24 hours



Okay, so you get a particular amount (200K, right?) in chips, and if you lose any of them, then you pay 55% of that.

In the event that you win, you get to keep 95% of whatever the profits are, but not of the initial chips.

Do you pay anything upfront for the chips, or only when you're done playing if you lose?
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Negroni
Negroni
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September 18th, 2020 at 7:29:28 PM permalink
Only after I lose
unJon
unJon
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September 18th, 2020 at 7:39:32 PM permalink
Quote: Negroni

Only after I lose

In other words you are saying you get a 45% loss rebate each session?
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
Negroni
Negroni
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September 18th, 2020 at 7:40:47 PM permalink
I can pay or take my win once in 24 hours
Romes
Romes
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September 18th, 2020 at 9:31:35 PM permalink
Wasn't it 50% pay on loss before, and keep all winnings?

...time to exit this thread.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
Negroni
Negroni
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September 18th, 2020 at 11:03:22 PM permalink
It's just changed, but it's that really matter the odds and the system I suppose to follow?
Mission146
Mission146 
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September 19th, 2020 at 5:57:57 AM permalink
Quote: Negroni

It's just changed, but it's that really matter the odds and the system I suppose to follow?



I see the table max is 50k, can you lose once and pay the percentage then quit for the day?

Ill probably work on this a bit later, just trying to make sure I completely understand the rules.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Negroni
Negroni
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September 19th, 2020 at 6:53:34 AM permalink
Yes, can do that

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